Non-league football

[Wallsendmag]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

They would be thriving if they had a nice little stadium TBH. You’d see plenty of people who are priced out of Newcastle or just can’t be bothered with the PL bullshit. 

 

We went to watch Gateshead away at Carlisle on Good Friday. 735 Gateshead fans there and a good proportion were lads in the 14-19 ish age category, NUFC fans first and foremost who wanted to sample a proper away day. A few of my mates bairns 15/16 year olds went over on the train and had a brilliant day but they're NUFC fans first and foremost.

[Matt]

Having watched a lot of non-league through 1995-2005 at a time when most NE clubs were permanently on their arse, no-one back them could have imagined the number of clubs regularly attracting 500-1000 folks on average. A 600 at Blyth would have been a very decent attendance, midweeks were usually around 300-350. I remember some very low attendances for games at Hillheads too. The feeling at the time was that many clubs would fold and the better-supported sides would have to shrink back to a more local level.

 

Clubs have successfully tapped into their role as part of the community and most now have properly integrated junior schemes with pathways to senior football. They have successfully capitalised on creeping dissatisfaction with the PL matchday experience and started to build long-term fan bases. Incredible to think that at one point there was only Blyth and Gateshead (maybe Spennymoor too) between the Northern League and the FL (when original Darlo were still around). 

 

For those who've been around a while you'll remember the chap who talked about promotion out of the Northern League being 'financial suicide'. So glad he had been proven so wrong over time.

[OpenC]

It would be for some NL clubs to be fair, the travelling is something that a lot of clubs wouldn't find viable and a lot of players just wouldn't do if they weren't getting paid fairly well for it.  There are a load of players at clubs well below their levels because they can't be fucked, or just can't, go to Derbyshire or Birmingham on a Wednesday night.

 

It's good that there's room in the pyramid for clubs to face purely local up to national travel but the NL and similar stage 5/6 level is a bit of a sweet spot for fans who like to watch home and away I think.  I wouldn't go to many away games if I followed an NPL or higher team.

 

 

Edited April 20 by OpenC

[Kilcline]

9 minutes ago, OpenC said:

It would be for some NL clubs to be fair, the travelling is something that a lot of clubs wouldn't find viable and a lot of players just wouldn't do if they weren't getting paid fairly well for it.  There are a load of players at clubs well below their levels because they can't be fucked, or just can't, go to Derbyshire or Birmingham on a Wednesday night.

 

It's good that there's room in the pyramid for clubs to face purely local up to national travel but the NL and similar stage 5/6 level is a bit of a sweet spot for fans who like to watch home and away I think.  I wouldn't go to many away games if I followed an NPL or higher team.

 

 

 

Aye, Consett were faintly notorious for dropping off around February/March for a fair few years before they went up, got Frank Bell quite the reputation in certain NE football circles 😅

 

 

Edited April 20 by Kilcline

[OpenC]

Yeah you see it all across the lower leagues. Wallington have had teams easily good enough to play in the NL for multiple seasons but can't go up because they haven't got the facilities and won't get the attendances to justify lights and hard standing, so are happy to stay where they are. Burradon and New Fordley easily good enough to beat a load of NL2 teams but don't go up. Rothbury have had good teams and big plans but they get gates of 5 if they're lucky.

 

If Alnwick had got promoted this season (and they weren't far off the play offs and can beat anyone on their day) then did the unbelievable and managed it again next season, there's no way that the distances required in even the NPL East would have been sustainable for the 80-150 attendances we get and are unlikely to build significantly on. Percy Main is a great little club but you can never see them anywhere other than the Alliance.  Sunderland RCA are a great NL club but I would be amazed if they ever had the financial muscle to compete at NPL level.  The financial suicide thing wasn't that far off the money for a fair few teams I reckon, it's just not the case that all teams have an equal opportunity to progress and a lot depends on the depth of the owners' pockets or how good local MPs are at securing multimillion funding from the government for single clubs   

 

Did the NL not try to keep themselves a closed shop and not form part of the wider pyramid until the FA threatened to exclude the teams from their competitions?

 

 

Edited April 20 by OpenC

[Stifler]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Having watched a lot of non-league through 1995-2005 at a time when most NE clubs were permanently on their arse, no-one back them could have imagined the number of clubs regularly attracting 500-1000 folks on average. A 600 at Blyth would have been a very decent attendance, midweeks were usually around 300-350. I remember some very low attendances for games at Hillheads too. The feeling at the time was that many clubs would fold and the better-supported sides would have to shrink back to a more local level.

 

Clubs have successfully tapped into their role as part of the community and most now have properly integrated junior schemes with pathways to senior football. They have successfully capitalised on creeping dissatisfaction with the PL matchday experience and started to build long-term fan bases. Incredible to think that at one point there was only Blyth and Gateshead (maybe Spennymoor too) between the Northern League and the FL (when original Darlo were still around). 

 

For those who've been around a while you'll remember the chap who talked about promotion out of the Northern League being 'financial suicide'. So glad he had been proven so wrong over time.

In the early 2000’s I used to go and watch North Shields with my stepdad. I’m not kidding you, sometimes we were the only ones there.

We had to go to Morrisons and get some pies beforehand because they didn’t have any catering facilities, or toilets I believe.

The fact that since the old committee have been ousted and they are regularly getting 500 or more for games is amazing.

I honestly think that with better facilities they could get more.

If they managed to get owners with a bit of money then surely looking at Hebburn is the benchmark. A decent stadium, good catering facilities, the beer pavilion etc.

North Shields is a town with a lot of potential, and a town on the up I think. They could really be able to tap into it a little more.

All In all, it’s a disgrace that money from football doesn’t flow down. Non-league clubs should be getting funding to have much better stadiums, and in the case of rural clubs and dare I say it North East clubs, a bit of funding to help with travel costs.

[Disco]

20 hours ago, Paullow said:

 

Yeah, it would be great if you had a hometown non league team you could be proud of, especially when they're going through a good moment. I've always wished Hexham had a team competing well in the Northern League, or even higher - it's no smaller than Morpeth, with a bigger catchment area, but while they've had a few years in step 3 (albeit almost certainly to come to an end this season), Hexham have never had a team above Northern Alliance level in my lifetime.

 

I've always liked to see the vast majority of local non league sides do well, so it is good in that sense that you can go to a lot of grounds in the region, especially at this stage of the season when there is a lot of big matches, and not many bigger than Hebburn this Saturday, and take in these great occasions, but it would be nicer if you had more of a connection to the place / team.

 

I echo Wallsend and others though, I do find myself enjoying non league more and more now.

Have never understood why Hexham have never managed to get a team in the NL particularly with Wentworth already being there to use as a more or less up to scratch home ground. As you say the catchment area is there even if it’s not exactly a footballing hotbed with Tynedale being so embedded in the community.

[Paullow]

27 minutes ago, Disco said:

Have never understood why Hexham have never managed to get a team in the NL particularly with Wentworth already being there to use as a more or less up to scratch home ground. As you say the catchment area is there even if it’s not exactly a footballing hotbed with Tynedale being so embedded in the community.

I mentioned at Newcastle Blue Star to that Football Explorer Youtuber guy on Friday night that I was off to Consett the next day as it's one of the quickest / easiest places to get to being from near Hexham and one of the first things he said was 'I can never understand why Hexham has never had a decent non league side' without me prompting or leading him etc. Not even one or two years struggling in Northern League Division 2 or anything. It really is a shame. The current team are in a league lower than Haltwhistle Jubilee.

[Paullow]

Despite the god awful website, I do love the NPL. The fact that there are teams a bit further afield does make it feel a bit less niche, plus it is something for the more ambitious Northern League teams to aspire to get to, and beyond, like we may be seeing with Hebburn (and possibly Stockton).

 

Hopefully Morpeth can settle in the East league going forward should the inevitable happen on Saturday. They've only really had Hebburn, and to an extent Stockton as local matches this year. Whitby at a push, but that is well into North Yorkshire, although obviously much better than heading down to Rushall near Walsall.

 

There are currently 9 NE sides in the East league, but it could look a bit different next year. Redcar are up, Dunston could join them. Newton Aycliffe are down and at least 1, possibly 2 of Bishops and Blyth Town will join them. Heaton, Consett, Ashington and Blyth Spartans will be there, plus almost certainly Morpeth. Guisborough are promoted from the league below, but that's a bit like Whitby, plus good news in that Kendal didn't make the playoffs so another NE side will join them (hopefully not Boro Rangers...). So there will be 7, 8, or 9 again in that league next year (depending on promotion and relegation), but it will be a lot better for Morpeth in terms of travel with more local sides around.

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Paullow

[ponsaelius]

17 minutes ago, Paullow said:

I mentioned at Newcastle Blue Star to that Football Explorer Youtuber guy on Friday night that I was off to Consett the next day as it's one of the quickest / easiest places to get to being from near Hexham and one of the first things he said was 'I can never understand why Hexham has never had a decent non league side' without me prompting or leading him etc. Not even one or two years struggling in Northern League Division 2 or anything. It really is a shame. The current team are in a league lower than Haltwhistle Jubilee.

 

Even the town on its own is big enough to easily support a NL side, before you take into account the surrounding catchment.

 

I get that the football culture has historically not been there but like Disco says with Wentworth they actually have facilities ready to go to for the NL. Right in the town centre and right next to the train station too.

[Disco]

9 minutes ago, Paullow said:

Despite the god awful website, I do love the NPL. The fact that there are teams a bit further afield does make it feel a bit less niche, plus it is something for the more ambitious Northern League teams to aspire to get to, and beyond, like we may be seeing with Hebburn (and possibly Stockton).

 

Hopefully Morpeth can settle in the East league going forward should the inevitable happen on Saturday. They've only really had Hebburn, and to an extent Stockton as local matches this year. Whitby at a push, but that is well into North Yorkshire, although obviously much better than heading down to Rushall near Walsall.

 

There are currently 9 NE sides in the East league, but it could look a bit different next year. Redcar are up, Dunston could join them. Newton Aycliffe are down and at least 1, possibly 2 of Bishops and Blyth Town will join them. Heaton, Consett, Ashington and Blyth Spartans will be there, plus almost certainly Morpeth. Guisborough are promoted from the league below, but that's a bit like Whitby, plus good news in that Kendal didn't make the playoffs so another NE side will join them (hopefully not Boro Rangers...). So there will be 7, 8, or 9 again in that league next year (depending on promotion and relegation), but it will be a lot better for Morpeth in terms of travel with more local sides around.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully Whitley but I can’t see it. Been beaten in all three against West including two pastings, in both games against Boro albeit they did beat Shildon at home which IIRC they played really well in.

The Boro team were a pack of bellends when I went their game at Whitley early in the season so I’ll take anyone but them going up.

[Big Geordie]

Will be some big derby's next season for Spartans potentially - Ashington of course and potentially Morpeth. I can't see Town stopping up, but you never know. 

[Moose]

3 hours ago, Kilcline said:

Aye, Consett were faintly notorious for dropping off around February/March for a fair few years before they went up, got Frank Bell quite the reputation in certain NE football circles 😅

 

 

 

 

There was a conspiracy theory that the Whitley Bay chairman set fire to the clubshop/tea bar so the ground wouldn't meet the standard for the NPL. It must have been around 2011 just after the 3rd Vase in a row and the board members voted to apply for promotion (Spenny ran away with the league every season during Whitley's Vase treble) but the chairman was against it due to the increase in costs and travel. So he torched it just before the NPL came to inspect the ground, he then allowed the club to slide into mediocrity so promotion wouldn't be feasible from a sporting POV. He allegedly told the manager, Ian Chandler, the throw the league games and only try in the Vase, when Chandler refused, he was sacked and made to sign an NDA.

 

The smoking gun was apparently the fact that the chairman personally moved all the clubshop stock and expensive equipment from the clubshop and teabar to the directors box in the dead of night for a "stock check".

 

For the record, I'm not saying I believe it, but that was the whisper on the terraces at the time. I do love how absurd and convoluted it is, someone really took the time to flex their creative writing muscles to flesh it out, there was waaaaaay more detail to it than I just described too. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Moose

[Kilcline]

7 minutes ago, Moose said:

 

There was a conspiracy theory that the Whitley Bay chairman set fire to the clubshop/tea bar so the ground wouldn't meet the standard for the NPL. It must have been around 2011 just after the 3rd Vase in a row and the board members voted to apply for promotion (Spenny ran away with the league every season during Whitley's Vase treble) but the chairman was against it due to the increase in costs and travel. So he torched it just before the NPL came to inspect the ground, he then allowed the club to slide into mediocrity so promotion wouldn't be feasible from a sporting POV. He allegedly told the manager, Ian Chandler, the throw the league games and only try in the Vase, when Chandler refused, he was sacked and made to sign an NDA.

 

The smoking gun was apparently the fact that the chairman personally moved all the clubshop stock and expensive equipment from the clubshop and teabar to the directors box in the dead of night for a "stock check".

 

For the record, I'm not saying I believe it, but that was the whisper on the terraces at the time. I do love how absurd and convoluted it is, someone really took the time to flex their creative writing muscles to flesh it out, there was waaaaaay more detail to it than I just described. 

 

 

 

Blimey, Chandler, there's a name I've not heard in years! Last time I seen him must have been when he was Bishops manager 8 or 9 years ago when they were really struggling 

[Wallsendmag]

7 minutes ago, Kilcline said:

Blimey, Chandler, there's a name I've not heard in years! Last time I seen him must have been when he was Bishops manager 8 or 9 years ago when they were really struggling 

 

Remember being at Hillheads in 1989 when he scored in a 2-0 win over Preston North End in the FA Cup 2nd round. John Motson was perched directly above us on some scaffolding doing the commentary in his legendary sheepskin coat.

[Moose]

 

1 minute ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Remember being at Hillheads in 1989 when he scored in a 2-0 win over Preston North End in the FA Cup 2nd round. John Motson was perched directly above us on some scaffolding doing the commentary in his legendary sheepskin coat.

 

The greatest figure in Whitley Bay history. Scored against Preston, scored the winner in 2002 Vase final, won the league in 2007, won 3 Vases in a row 2009-11. He lost his way a bit when Steve Cuggy and Gavin Fell went to Blyth (sorry for triggering PTSD for any Blyth fans reading) or maybe it was because he refused to obey the orders of the mad chairman.

[OpenC]

8 hours ago, Moose said:

 

There was a conspiracy theory that the Whitley Bay chairman set fire to the clubshop/tea bar so the ground wouldn't meet the standard for the NPL. It must have been around 2011 just after the 3rd Vase in a row and the board members voted to apply for promotion (Spenny ran away with the league every season during Whitley's Vase treble) but the chairman was against it due to the increase in costs and travel. So he torched it just before the NPL came to inspect the ground, he then allowed the club to slide into mediocrity so promotion wouldn't be feasible from a sporting POV. He allegedly told the manager, Ian Chandler, the throw the league games and only try in the Vase, when Chandler refused, he was sacked and made to sign an NDA.

 

The smoking gun was apparently the fact that the chairman personally moved all the clubshop stock and expensive equipment from the clubshop and teabar to the directors box in the dead of night for a "stock check".

 

For the record, I'm not saying I believe it, but that was the whisper on the terraces at the time. I do love how absurd and convoluted it is, someone really took the time to flex their creative writing muscles to flesh it out, there was waaaaaay more detail to it than I just described too. 

 

 

Bedlington Terriers had a similar story attached to them.  Mysterious fire but thankfully the trophies and expensive gear had been moved elsewhere just before it broke out.

[Big Geordie]

3 hours ago, OpenC said:

 

Bedlington Terriers had a similar story attached to them.  Mysterious fire but thankfully the trophies and expensive gear had been moved elsewhere just before it broke out.

 

I imagine there will have been a fair bit of dodgy goings on, at Terriers when they were top of the pile in the NL - former owners, etc.  It's also in recent memory what was allowed to go on at North Shields in recent years - which was discussed in here at length.  

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I've actually been to a Whitby game, on the top of the coastal cliff right? Went when I stayed in a hotel near there. Bleak if the weather's bad

[Disco]

 

[Wallsendmag]

@OpenC just reading there that Alnwicks manager has left after 5 years in the job.

[OpenC]

Yeah he'll be a miss - two league cups and a promotion back to the Northern League is a canny knock, and he was a good and approachable bloke who always had time for the fans.  Not sure if he's got anything else lined up and not sure what the replacement plans are for us - heard some whispers about an Alliance manager ready to step up from a team that have always given us a hell of a game even after we got promoted. 

 

I suspect we'll lose a few players as a result of Richie going but it's times like this you think about the makeup of the team - do you want mostly Tyneside and Durham lads who are higher standard but who nobody in Alnwick is that interested in going to watch, or do you want to concentrate on more local lads that might get more people through the doors? There's the core of a good local team seen out the season who I'd like to see kept playing next season, and honestly part of me isn't that arsed about whether they play in the NL or the Alliance, there were great games and good away days in both and shit games and diabolical fenced off 3Gs in both.

 

 

Edited April 21 by OpenC

[Disco]

Whitley Bay v Heaton Stan in the senior cup final after Whitley beat Benfield tonight. 

[Paullow]

FCUM 1 Stockport 1.

 

That means FCUM can't win the league, Hebburn and Hednesford guaranteed 1st or 2nd, and a straight shootout between them for the title. Advantage Hebburn with a +5, or effectively +6 GD advantage. The point takes Stockton a point clear of 6th and 7th and if they win at 4th place Warrington Rylands, who can't finish any higher of lower, they will get the final playoff spot, hopefully vs Hednesford (and not Hebburn).

 

 

They would have already secured 5th place if they hadn't fielded an ineligible player earlier in the season, ironically against Rylands,

 

Not sure if anyone had been following the drama heading into this FCUM fixture tonight, but it was pretty eventful, including an NPL chief losing his position.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cj94yzxn8y9o

 

 

Edited April 21 by Paullow

[OpenC]

Think I'll get a ticket and head along to Workington's last game on Saturday now the NL is done and dusted.  Might have been a more emotional affair if they had still been in the mix for relegation but the photojournalist in me can't miss the opportunity to see the last game at what looks like a great little ground.