Other clubs' transfers

[The College Dropout]

18 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

Do Villa have a lot of room once Grealish falls off the books? I don't know much about their situation other than their wages are ~£25m higher than ours on similar revenue. 

Yes.

 

They've sold £35m+ of youth products in the last 12 months iirc. And they've sold other players for decent money (eg Matt Targett for £15m), A lot of their investment is in wages rather than astronomical fees. They've only signed 1 player over 40m - Diaby. Then there's a couple 30m defenders.

 

For Tonali & Isak (talking just transfer fees) they've got - Carlos, Torres, Tielemans, Kamara, Moreno, Diaby.

[timeEd32]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Yes.

 

They've sold £35m+ of youth products in the last 12 months iirc. And they've sold other players for decent money (eg Matt Targett for £15m), A lot of their investment is in wages rather than astronomical fees. They've only signed 1 player over 40m - Diaby. Then there's a couple 30m defenders.

 

For Tonali & Isak (talking just transfer fees) they've got - Carlos, Torres, Tielemans, Kamara, Moreno, Diaby.

 

This is why I'm on a crusade to get people to stop talking about just transfer fees. "A lot of their investment is in wages rather than astronomical fees" makes it sound like one is preferable to the other when it all gets added up together.

 

When you factor in wages and amortisation, those six players are only £5m less per year than these five: Isak, Tonali, Botman, Gordon, and Livramento.

 

Free transfers certainly aren't free when you're paying a player almost £8m per season. No doubt they did very well with Kamara, but I'm not sure I'd want to still be paying Tielemans £150k/wk a couple years from now.

[SEMTEX]

I'm sure had we signed those players they all would have cost twice as much anyway, given the ol' Saudi tax.

[andycap]

How old that choupo mouting nowadays? Seems ancient I remember him at Blackburn. 

[El Prontonise]

1 minute ago, andycap said:

How old that choupo mouting nowadays? Seems ancient I remember him at Blackburn. 

 

He played for Stoke not Blackburn.

[Lush Vlad]

1 minute ago, andycap said:

How old that choupo mouting nowadays? Seems ancient I remember him at Blackburn. 

 

Must have been on FM, then.  As he never played for them  it was Stoke he played for.  

[nufc123]

Manu back on the oldie train?

[Menace]

He's got the best agent in the industry

[joeyt]

that's a great price for someone in the summer

 

 

[MrRaspberryJam]

Just now, joeyt said:

that's a great price for someone in the summer

 

 

someone on here was going mental for Frimpong over Livramento in the summer. 

[High Five o]

Just now, MrRaspberryJam said:

someone on here was going mental for Frimpong over Livramento in the summer. 

I remember, thought it was him or his agent like?

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

 

This is why I'm on a crusade to get people to stop talking about just transfer fees. "A lot of their investment is in wages rather than astronomical fees" makes it sound like one is preferable to the other when it all gets added up together.

 

When you factor in wages and amortisation, those six players are only £5m less per year than these five: Isak, Tonali, Botman, Gordon, and Livramento.

 

Free transfers certainly aren't free when you're paying a player almost £8m per season. No doubt they did very well with Kamara, but I'm not sure I'd want to still be paying Tielemans £150k/wk a couple years from now.

How do you reckon that?

 

You think Tonali came for 60m euros to earn half of Youri Tielemans?

 

Tielemans is rumoured to earn £8m p/a. Tonali is rumoured to earn £7m p/a. Isak similar. Tonali costs £18m per year FFP wise. That pays for Tielemans & Kamara (both rumoured to earn around £8m p/a) FFP wise.  Isak is roughly £16.5 per year FFP wise. That almost pays for Pau Torres at £11.8m & Alex Moreno at £5.3m.

 

In the short-term FFP wise ours are still much more expensive.

 

Long-term - we are largely signing younger players with better resale value. Moreno, Diego Carlos are 30ish. 

 

But we could do a bit more mix and matching - especially with free transfers of young players or loans. Sometimes you need to do short-term things that contribute to long-term goals even if the action is contradictory.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2024 by The College Dropout

[gbandit]

Was a dark day for that poster after we signed Tino. Don’t think they ever posted again 

[Shearergol]

Tielemans is probably the least suited midfielder in the world for our system. I get your overall point isn't about that, just wanted to say it

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

Tielemans is probably the least suited midfielder in the world for our system. I get your overall point isn't about that, just wanted to say it

Agreed. Although he would fit in with how we've been playing recently. Especially Bruno off the ball. Watch him for one of the goals against Liverpool trying to track Szob.. that would go viral on Twitter. A similar video went viral some years back about Tielemans - when he made Rice look like Usain Bolt (Rice is rapid tbf).

[timeEd32]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

How do you reckon that?

 

You think Tonali came for 60m euros to earn half of Youri Tielemans?

 

Tielemans is rumoured to earn £8m p/a. Tonali is rumoured to earn £7m p/a. Isak similar. Tonali costs £18m per year FFP wise. That pays for Tielemans & Kamara (both rumoured to earn around £8m p/a) FFP wise.  Isak is roughly £16.5 per year FFP wise. That almost pays for Pau Torres at £11.8m & Alex Moreno at £5.3m.

 

In the short-term FFP wise ours are still much more expensive.

 

Long-term - we are largely signing younger players with better resale value. Moreno, Diego Carlos are 30ish. 

 

Tonali is 17.3, Isak 16.3 (6 year deal when it was allowed for FFP), Botman and Gordon 11, and Tino 9. £64.83m/yr with all the proper decimals.

 

Tielemans and Kamara 8, Diaby 16, Moreno 5 (cheap but also only a 3.5 year deal), Torres 11, and Carlos 11.8 (4 year deal). £59.77m/yr with all the actual numbers.

 

It's a fairly random set of players, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it's quite pointless to talk about finances in terms of only transfer fees. The fact their wage bill is ~£25m more than ours is quite significant. And, if anything, it's probably preferable to be paying higher fees + lower wages because you can finesse the amortisation with contract extensions. Once you commit to paying someone £7.8m/yr then that's that, especially if they are unlikely to carry a lot of resale value.

 

To even more neatly illustrate the point just take Gordon + Tino and Kamara + Diaby. With transfer fees only we spent £72m and they spent £47.5. But when you add wages and amoritisation it becomes £20.14m/yr for us and £24.06 for them. What looks like £25m more in all of the headlines is actually £4m less per year. Even if you want to remove all the funky accounting and amortisation from the equation, the actual five year outlay on those players is £120.3 for Villa and £100.7m for Newcastle.

 

[andycap]

1 hour ago, El Prontonise said:

 

He played for Stoke not Blackburn.

My mistake it was another fella I got mixed up. 

[andycap]

It was modeste who I mistakenly took him for. 

[Pata]

Tielemans labeled as a free transfer just isn’t right. Apparently he over quadrupled his wages, doubt that happens if it wasn’t ’free’ especially after the season he had at relegated Leicester.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2024 by Pata

[The College Dropout]

30 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Tonali is 17.3, Isak 16.3 (6 year deal when it was allowed for FFP), Botman and Gordon 11, and Tino 9. £64.83m/yr with all the proper decimals.

 

Tielemans and Kamara 8, Diaby 16, Moreno 5 (cheap but also only a 3.5 year deal), Torres 11, and Carlos 11.8 (4 year deal). £59.77m/yr with all the actual numbers.

 

It's a fairly random set of players, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it's quite pointless to talk about finances in terms of only transfer fees. The fact their wage bill is ~£25m more than ours is quite significant. And, if anything, it's probably preferable to be paying higher fees + lower wages because you can finesse the amortisation with contract extensions. Once you commit to paying someone £7.8m/yr then that's that, especially if they are unlikely to carry a lot of resale value.

 

To even more neatly illustrate the point just take Gordon + Tino and Kamara + Diaby. With transfer fees only we spent £72m and they spent £47.5. But when you add wages and amoritisation it becomes £20.14m/yr for us and £24.06 for them. What looks like £25m more in all of the headlines is actually £4m less per year. Even if you want to remove all the funky accounting and amortisation from the equation, the actual five year outlay on those players is £120.3 for Villa and £100.7m for Newcastle.

 

We've arrived at the same destination. Villa have signed more players for less FFP money, and we have signed less players for more FFP money. The difference probably covers the wages and amortisation for Douglas Luiz (not looked up his salary tbf).

 

I didn't ignore wages in my initial post. My point is that they've gone low fee high wages. We've done the opposite (relatively speaking). There's some merit to mixing and matching to get squad depth and quality.

 

It's not random - it's the major signings of the last 2 seasons iirc.

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Pata said:

Tielemans labeled as a free transfer just isn’t right. Apparently he quadrupled his wages, doubt that happens if it wasn’t ’free’ especially after the season he had at relegated Leicester.

c.£8m in wages. Expensive to carry it and it won't reduce with contract extensions. But in the short-term it's less than the likes of Livramento.

 

 

[Pata]

Kamara ended up as a bargain but must be getting close to 10x his Marseille wage at Villa. He earns significantly more than Brazilian international Bruno did with his initial contract after the big money move from the same league.

 

There are bargains to be had in the free transfers but they are not free of risk. If Kamara had flopped there’s no way Villa could move him anywhere with the reported £150k per week wages. We’ve seen how hard it is to even give away players that earn way more than they should.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2024 by Pata

[timeEd32]

29 minutes ago, Pata said:

Kamara ended up as a bargain but must be getting close to 10x his Marseille wage at Villa. He earns significantly more than Brazilian international Bruno did with his initial contract after the big money move from the same league.

 

There are bargains to be had in the free transfers but they are not free of risk. If Kamara had flopped there’s no way Villa could move him anywhere with the reported £150k per week wages. We’ve seen how hard it is to even give away players that earn way more than they should.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, they hit the jackpot on getting a then 22 year old France international on a free transfer. The whole comparison looks very different if he wasn't a success.

 

But even then this incredible "free" transfer costs basically the same as the 20 year old fullback we signed for £32m. That was my whole point to begin with.

[Menace]

Tielemans is shite. I'm glad we avoided. 

[leffe186]

Anyone still think the Saudi League is going to be a big success?

 

Early days I know, but the sixth highest average attendance (7854) is less than the number then went along with me to Orient v Wycombe the other night. Al-Hilal are top with 53pts from 19 games, 2nd place is 46, 3rd 40, 4th 34. 19pts clear of fourth after 19 games.

 

Isn’t this all exactly what most of us said would happen?