Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Jayson]

A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now

 

:lol:

 

Take a look. We have 13 of the same players in the books. Who, on that season’s form, would you bring? It is mainly our midfield and defence which is different. Keepers are the same.

 

Looking back I basically agree. Cisse was probably still more capable of the odd goal than our current strikers which has been the massive issue, plus during Lascelles injury i'd have said our defence was worse now. In the main i think we have a healthier side now currently though. Saying that you have to compare to other current Prem sides and their ability to spend atm, we're not competing vs previous Newcastle. We'd likely beat them.

 

There's basically 2 wins between 18th and 9th atm. So i think it's difficult to say we're underperforming, the likes of West Ham, Palace, Southampton should arguably be doing much better.

 

It just comes down to the fine lines that I dont think Benitez is control of. We lost 2 points at Burnley & 2 more at Palace to penalties. 4 points would have had us 12th & just 2 points away from being the best side outside the top 8.

[Altamullan]

It's a question of expectation. If we were aiming for top half then, yes, results have been poor.

 

My aim was to stay in the league. Therefore results have been ok.

 

I dont think anyone could have done better, results wise. With the squad we have.

I think you’re right, expectation comes into it. Also how close we have been to better results. Draws I feel  were winnable, poor teams who have taken points off us at home. At the start of the season I didn’t see that many PL teams to be frightened about, to some extent the three points between 19th and 12th offer some support to that view. 6 wins out of 26 is just not ok, full stop. Especially given we have probably the second hardest run-in.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Shit, this debate is absolutely appalling.

 

From the list of things that have lead to this club being in a relegation battle, what number is Rafa being slightly too defensive or not using Mitrovic enough or whatever? Near enough bottom.

 

Then compare that to the list of reasons we have any chance at all of staying up, he's fucking top.

[TRon]

Reasoned debate? Not that complicated really we’re, so he’s, not doing very well. LLWWWLDDWLLLLDLLLLWLDWDLDD = this season. Or P 36 W9 D11 L16 if you want to tag on the previous 10 PL games. So, yes. Results are poor. Maybe not ‘relatively’ speaking depending upon your view, but poor none the less. A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now, bar a couple of them (Thauvin was useless for us, Sissoko always flattered  to deceive/no end product, Cisse,  Coloccini  and some others well past their best). So we’ve been hung out to dry transfer wise, ok not much debate about that, but there were six home games this season I feel we could/should have done better in.

 

I remain personally disappointed that we haven’t turned a consistently coached and mainly selected Benetiz squad into something better than it is by now. Take a look at the squads of the other 11 ‘lesser’ PL teams. It really isn’t like a Champions League rollcall.

 

Those other lesser PL teams are round about in the same situation as us. Some of them such as West Ham, Palace and Southampton have far more firepower than us as well. I'd say along with Brighton and Huddersfield we've got the worst squad as we don't have a striker of any repute. it's like going into a gunfight armed with a pea shooter. It makes no difference if you are at home if you don't have the weapons to put an opponent down.

[TheHoob]

s***, this debate is absolutely appalling.

[steve_69]

s***, this debate is absolutely appalling.

 

This x 100

 

I'm fucking staggered at the state of some of the points being made in this thread.

[xLiaaamx]

Sissoko, Thauvin, Wijnaldum, Cisse and Janmaat would all start for us. That's half a team. So yes, McClaren had a better squad and did a much worse job.

 

Benitez would have had us nice and safe, had he had a full season with those players.

 

He was absolutely finished man. Worse than Gayle and Joselu.

[UncleBingo]

I’m of the opinion that some of Rafa’s tactics and methods have not helped us at all at home and that could be our downfall RE relegation. I also dislike our football, it’s poor in the main and I find some of his subs baffling. I for one would like us to just go for it a bit more at home. Swansea at home for example, had we played the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably instead of drawing. I’m all for how we play away from home by the way. We cannot keep using the players as not being good enough as an excuse or our lack of spending, they are all mitigating factors, but I’m sure even Rafa himself more than anyone will not be happy with our total points yield as things stand and we could be doing better. Silly mistakes and missed chances haven’t helped but when we are on top and get a goal like away to Palace we seem to revert into a shell of fear and try and see out the game defensively and it costs us a lot. Rafa the man though, he’s untouchable and easily the best thing about our club and he is far too good for us. Sadly what Ashley did by not backing him in the summer basically clipped our wings following the jubilation or winning the Championship. He effectively killed odour season to the point where it would be all about staying up. Sadly I don’t think we will.

 

How would we have won if we had kept missing chances like the first half?

 

Such a simplistic thing to say if we'd played the same way in the second half etc......unless you're Man City it's not quite as simple as that. Swansea changed their players and formation after getting totally outplayed in the first half, we were unable to change it around mainly due to a lack of quality on the bench.....as it happens, they are not a bad side with some good players, as they've since proven.

 

At the end of the day, our defence is solid enough and the stats suggest we create enough chances to win games, but simply don't have the quality to convert them into goals.......a decent striker and we would have been nowhere near a relegation spot. That's 100% down to Ashley.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Our results against the bottom half teams have been good. Maybe not in individual games but across the season so far. What is more problematic is our record against the top half teams. Almost like the gap in quality between playing squads becomes more pronounced.

[Altamullan]

Sissoko, Thauvin, Wijnaldum, Cisse and Janmaat would all start for us. That's half a team. So yes, McClaren had a better squad and did a much worse job.

 

Benitez would have had us nice and safe, had he had a full season with those players.

Have you forgotten how bad Thauvin looked? There’s no way no would be starting, on that season’s form. Cisse  looked shite as well. I’d rather have Gayle. I’d rather have Joselu than Rivière. I would take Wijnaldum and Janmaat, but wouldn’t be rushing to drop anyone for Sissoko.

[Stottie]

Unless there is a change in ownership he won't be here next season anyway, so not to worry.

 

This in a nutshell.

 

Rafa's football is a bit dour, but on the odd occasion it breaks down and we have Benteke bearing down on our goal after the world's simplest throughball three minutes into a game, I understand why we set up the way we do. Give us the keeper and striker that Rafa wanted and I think we'd have had similar results to Burnley.

[TheHoob]

Are people forgetting the absolute shitehawks we had managing those players? We were hardly seeing them at their peaks, Benitez would be able to get far more out of most of them.

[steve_69]

Unless there is a change in ownership he won't be here next season anyway, so not to worry.

 

This in a nutshell.

 

Rafa's football is a bit dour, but on the odd occasion it breaks down and we have Benteke bearing down on our goal after the world's simplest throughball three minutes into a game, I understand why we set up the way we do. Give us the keeper and striker that Rafa wanted and I think we'd have had similar results to Burnley.

 

Even the though football is a bit dour, we still create plenty of chances. If we had the striker that Rafa had wanted, we wouldn't be grinding out 1-0 results like Burnley. We'd be scoring 2-3 goals per game against most of the bottom half.  We should've put 3 past Burnley a couple of weeks ago but Joselu saw to it that we didn't.

[1964]

Where did 'mid-table premiership players' come from?  They're your words.  I'm not arguing about the point made and I personally don't agree with it, I just think going down the line of personally abusing someone for asking a question is not on.  People just won't post anything and we will be RAWK which is not healthy

 

Personal abuse? I did a laughing smiley. Quite the snowflake aren't you?

 

For the record, I THINK Rafa has done an amazing job, because in my OPINION we have a championship squad and in my OPINION he has been totally screwed over by his bosses.

 

Of course you can question Rafa but I'm well within my rights to laugh at people who do so, for a variety of reasons.

Jesus Christ this is tiresome, just to be absolutely clear again, I wasn't referring to you giving me abuse, I was referring to comments earlier on that someone was a 'wassock' for suggesting that the players haven't improved. All I was saying was that posters should be allowed an opinion when presented in a reasonable way without being abused. 

[Altamullan]

Are people forgetting the absolute shitehawks we had managing those players? We were hardly seeing them at their peaks, Benitez would be able to get far more out of most of them.

I was absolutely certain that Rafa would have got more out of the 2015-16 group, over the course of a season. Still think he would have done. But again, tbf, he didn’t manage to get much of a tune out of them over the last ten games.

 

(10 points from 9 critical pre-relegation games, 13 from 10 games; on average would have been enough to stay up)

[TRon]

I’m of the opinion that some of Rafa’s tactics and methods have not helped us at all at home and that could be our downfall RE relegation. I also dislike our football, it’s poor in the main and I find some of his subs baffling. I for one would like us to just go for it a bit more at home. Swansea at home for example, had we played the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably instead of drawing. I’m all for how we play away from home by the way. We cannot keep using the players as not being good enough as an excuse or our lack of spending, they are all mitigating factors, but I’m sure even Rafa himself more than anyone will not be happy with our total points yield as things stand and we could be doing better. Silly mistakes and missed chances haven’t helped but when we are on top and get a goal like away to Palace we seem to revert into a shell of fear and try and see out the game defensively and it costs us a lot. Rafa the man though, he’s untouchable and easily the best thing about our club and he is far too good for us. Sadly what Ashley did by not backing him in the summer basically clipped our wings following the jubilation or winning the Championship. He effectively killed odour season to the point where it would be all about staying up. Sadly I don’t think we will.

 

How would we have won if we had kept missing chances like the first half?

 

Such a simplistic thing to say if we'd played the same way in the second half etc......unless you're Man City it's not quite as simple as that. Swansea changed their players and formation after getting totally outplayed in the first half, we were unable to change it around mainly due to a lack of quality on the bench.....as it happens, they are not a bad side with some good players, as they've since proven.

 

At the end of the day, our defence is solid enough and the stats suggest we create enough chances to win games, but simply don't have the quality to convert them into goals.......a decent striker and we would have been nowhere near a relegation spot. That's 100% down to Ashley.

 

It will be interesting to see if Slimani makes any difference to the results as I'm convinced with a decent striker we'd be well clear of the relegation places.

[TheHoob]

I was absolutely certain that Rafa would have got more out of the 2015-16 group, over the course of a season. Still think he would have done. But again, tbf, he didn’t manage to get much of a tune out of them over the last ten games.

 

Benitez points per game that season: 1.3

McClaren: 0.86

[Altamullan]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

[HaydnNUFC]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

He had 24 points and remained on 24 points until his sacking on March 11th. With a much better squad.

[DJ_NUFC]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

He had 24 points and remained on 24 points until his sacking on March 11th. With a much better squad.

 

He also got... how much money to spend?

[HaydnNUFC]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

He had 24 points and remained on 24 points until his sacking on March 11th. With a much better squad.

 

He also got... how much money to spend?

£50m in the summer, £30m in the January window. We ended up one of the highest net spenders in Europe that season.

 

After reading up about it, 2015/16 is a bit similar to 1988/89.

[Altamullan]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

He had 24 points and remained on 24 points until his sacking on March 11th. With a much better squad.

Well that’s why he was sacked, obviously. Not before time, the writing was on the wall relegation wise. I’m interested in this much better squad. I’d only slot two if the pre January window squad into our current starting 11. How many would you play?

[SEMTEX]

No context is acceptable We could swap squads with Gateshead and it'd still be SMH Rafa onlee 6 wins same as Steve.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Why is this a conversation?

[HaydnNUFC]

Yep, better. SMc had 24 points by 7th Feb 2016, from 25 games.  The same ‘not good enough’ 6 wins we’ve currently got today, from 26 games.

He had 24 points and remained on 24 points until his sacking on March 11th. With a much better squad.

Well that’s why he was sacked, obviously. Not before time, because the writing was in the wall relegation wise. I’m interested in this much better squad. I’d only slot two if the pre January window squad into our current starting 11. How many would you play?

Why particularly pre January? The squad we had after that window was more than good enough for the Premier League, shown by our form in the run in under Rafa. The incompetence at PL level of Steve McClaren coupled with years of neglection of the playing squad sent us down 2 years ago.