Wilson Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Urgh. I despise the bloke. Absolute mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 What is this nonsense Dubravka deal brings back Pardew memories Martin Dubravka signing a new shiny six-year contract at Newcastle was well received on Tyneside but such a reward will inevitably bring back memories of the decision to hand Alan Pardew and his staff eight-year extensions until 2020. Pardew left Newcastle for Crystal Palace two years later but fans will hope Dubravka, who will be 36 when his contract expires, is there to stay. The 30-year-old has started every Premier League game since joining Newcastle from Sparta Prague last year, keeping 17 clean sheets in 59 appearances. Karl Darlow and Rob Elliot are both out of contract next summer so it will likely fall on Freddie Woodman, the 22-year-old who has impressed this season on loan at Swansea and whose godfather is Gareth Southgate, to compete with the Slovakian for the number one jersey. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/25/premier-league-10-things-to-look-out-for-this-weekend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 In terms of his character, professionalism, consistency and all-round better than just about good enough ability in goal, he’s far too good for this current Bruce managed/coached Newcastle United, like a number of them are without someone like Rafa looking after them. But in reality, he’s not got that extra special quality to play for a team a good notch or two higher up a level than the level under Bruce’s NUFC, not more than a cluster of similar standard of quality goalies anyway. Hopefully he will earn a decent wedge here fitting of his talent and if he does end up getting a better move away one day, he’ll go to a decent club with decent prospects where he’ll be better rewarded on the pitch. He’s not and never will be as good as someone like Shay was who at least got to play in a very good NUFC team at a level his talent deserved, but in the end, he still deserved to play at a higher lever for a much better team than he did over the course of his career while here and as great as he was for us and as glad I was he played here for so long, the saddest part wasn’t seeing him leave, but seeing him playing for such shit teams, along side shit players, under shit managers. I’d rather they just left. Same with Dubravka. Under Rafa even if we were a mid-table team, I’d be sad to see him leave even for a top team. Today, him staying, well it’s back to the days of Shay staying around so long performing as good as anyone - one day playing CL football managed by Sir Bobby, the next in goal for a struggling team managed by Souness to the point where towards the end fishing out 5 goals at home to Liverpool despite a world-class performance was the difference between either that or fishing out ten. I fear Dubravka will be to this NUFC the difference between a later relegation than an earlier one. If not this season, one of the season’s he’s just contracted himself to the club to. Unless he gets a move first before it’s too late as it proved for Shay. The likes of Elliott don’t deserve to be at this club in other ways, but fair play to him if he can get a canny pay day while here, his talent can’t reward him a rich career on the pitch at this level in terms of success, but the game should reward anyone a rich enough financial payout to those who from a kid sacrificed everything to play the game at a professional level and a lot more than those who do have the talent to be paid riches on the pitch, but take things for granted. To think Rafa found Dubravka from out of nowhere based on his scouting acumen, ability to spot talent and above all else his ability to see talent and be able to help develop talent in those who have the right attitude and work ethic, all in the name of making the team stronger, better and to perform at higher levels. It’s the opposite now. Dubravka on a longer contract means the club don't have to worry about spending a few quid on buying another ‘keeper for a few years and also allows them to extend how long they get to cash in on him or not at the same time. His value to the business is higher than his value to the team. Under Bruce, Dubravka’s value to his team over say Elliott compared to the difference between the two to Rafa’s team, will end up reduced to who if selected, will save more shots the most, not miss more crosses the most, or panic more with back passes the most. Either way, both will concede lots of goals, keep very few clean sheets and end up being no real difference at all, not when you have Bruce in charge, like having Cabaye, Cisse, Colo, Ba, HBA meant nowt with Pardew on the touchline or a team of players who under Sir Bobby finished in the top 5 3 times in a row and then finished outside of the top ten under Souness. Just like having Shearer and Shay two of the most consistent top performers in the league meant now in the end. Having a top manager, however.... that makes all the difference, especially with top players. As we come to learn when Rafa brought in Dubravka. Just one player in one position improving the team in a big way, as Rondon did and even Kennedy. Like with Shay, his quality in goal will be valued by fans at least for keeping the score down, for helping the team to stay up, for not being as shit as Elliott. We could have prime Buffon in goal under the clown that is Bruce and there would be no real point. I hope you’re getting a bumper pay rise out of this Dubs, I really do. Story of NUFC’s history. Sir Bobby qualifies for the CL and they give him Bowyer on a free. Finishes 5th and he gets sacked. They pay for Souness and give him 50m. They sign a then prime Owen to play alongside a finished Shearer. They give Pardew an 8 year contract and give him Ba, Cisse, Cabaye, HBA, they give Rafa 3 years, Joselus and loans. They pay for Bruce and spend tens of millions on players. They give longer contracts to Dubravkas but not Rafa who bought him in the first place, initially on loan only. If ever there was a more fucked up club than ours... Right now it’s not just fucked up, it’s fucked totally! Fucked with and fucked over by Ashley and all those fuck ups he employs. Bruce no different to Pardew. Players and fans being fucked over to keep one man and his cronies in business, in money, in the game, in profiting. Again, if Dubs walks away a millionaire from signing himself to Newcastle, good on him, same with the likes of Colback too. At the end of the day they aren’t being paid to win, to bring success to the club, they don’t work for NUFC, they work for Ashley, they are paid based on their value or worth in business terms only. Colback because he was free, Dubs because he cost next to nowt and tied down to a longer deal lengthens how much extra time they now get to cash in on him or not, regardless while tied down, they won’t have to spend any more money on a ‘keeper that’s for sure. Under normal circumstances, you tie down your top man in goal to reward him for his performances, to keep the vultures away, but most of all because he’s an integral player who you want to build a team around with equally quality players. That’s why you renew the contract of the man who signed him first and helped developed his game, not let him go and bring in Steve fucking Bruce and then say right, here’s a new deal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I’m usually down for a good HTT stream of consciousness, but fuck me, you’re talking the piss there, surely? Paid by the word for that one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Dubravka is better than Given tbh, Given was absolutely hopeless at commanding his box. He was a great shot stopper and that's it, he couldn't kick for shit either. He might be marginally better than Dubs at shot stopping, but that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 How many times did you ever say of Given “should have got that”? I can think of three or four from Dubravka this season. “Marginally better” isn’t accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I’m not sure who HTT is writing his posts for anymore. If it’s for himself that’s okay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Dubs is great for the level we are at, he's not a great goalkeeper though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 How many times did you ever say of Given “should have got that”? I can think of three or four from Dubravka this season. “Marginally better” isn’t accurate. But how many times did Given not catch a cross to take pressure off the defence like Dubrakva does (and Krul did for that matter). If we are being brutally honest he was too small to be a top goalkeeper in today's game. Tbh i loved Given at the time, i was about 12, and i saw him make these great saves, but i was too young to notice what he WASN'T doing, i.e catching crosses. He wasn't that good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Shay was to Dubs what Harper was to Shay. Let’s not forget just how good he was and despite his weaknesses, the only reason he was never snapped up by bigger clubs is because when he was in his prime here, the top clubs all had their own top in their prime ‘keepers. And for 3 seasons at least, Shay was as good as any for a then top 4 team. He just wasn’t exceptionally better than those clubs’ keeper’s to bid big to prize away. He was certainly as good as any and good enough to keep goal for a Man Utd or Arsenal though at that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I’m not sure who HTT is writing his posts for anymore. If it’s for himself that’s okay. Always myself these days (thank fuck everyone sighs ) that’s why I rarely post to and from in exchanges of debate posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Shay was to Dubs what Harper was to Shay. Let’s not forget just how good he was and despite his weaknesses, the only reason he was never snapped up by bigger clubs is because when he was in his prime here, the top clubs all had their own top in their prime ‘keepers. And for 3 seasons at least, Shay was as good as any for a then top 4 team. He just wasn’t exceptionally better than those clubs’ keeper’s to bid big to prize away. He was certainly as good as any and good enough to keep goal for a Man Utd or Arsenal though at that time. Was he fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 By the way, during that 4th, 3rd and 5th placed finish spell under Sir Bobby, I’d have put Shay as one of the greatest ‘keepers of the early PL era behind Schmeichel and Seaman, just above Lehman and Barthez. After that era we saw a new standard of ‘keeper emerge better than him such as van Der Saar, Cech and Reina who I’d have all above him and today those in goal for City, Man Utd and Liverpool above him as well. Shay today, however, would be in the top 6-4 easily IMO. To compare Dubs with him is just crazy. You have to remember back then, keepers’ games were different. They kicked it long and had to deal with far more crosses than ‘keepers today do. Most teams played 4-4-2 with central strikers and wingers and crossing was a major feature of play. Shay’s kicking wasn’t the best nor his coming for crosses or command of his box, but he wasn’t alone in not being perfect. I’m in no doubt today he’d learn and develop his kicking, his feet work and his area to better effect. As a shot stopper, he was as good as they come and was worth 10 points or more a season for us easily. Shay never leaves for Man City and we stay up. We’d have went down eventually of course, with or without him, just like we will again Dubs or not. Prime Shay ‘95-‘96 and we probably win the league, throw in a fit Woodgate in front of him and we walk it. There can’t be many clubs who have had so many top players playing in so many shit teams as we’ve had, Shay played in one top team once in the middle of a 3 year spell. The rest was nowhere near as to his own individual level of high standards. Put Harper in goal that day Liverpool put 5 past us at SJP and not Shay and you can double their tally. That’s how good he was at shot stopping, as good as any! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Shay was to Dubs what Harper was to Shay. Let’s not forget just how good he was and despite his weaknesses, the only reason he was never snapped up by bigger clubs is because when he was in his prime here, the top clubs all had their own top in their prime ‘keepers. And for 3 seasons at least, Shay was as good as any for a then top 4 team. He just wasn’t exceptionally better than those clubs’ keeper’s to bid big to prize away. He was certainly as good as any and good enough to keep goal for a Man Utd or Arsenal though at that time. Was he fuck. Why do fans down rate so many of our own obviously top players so much yet uprate those who weren’t more and more a lot too. Dubs better than Shay, howay man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Next people will be saying Beardsley was better than HBA... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Shay was very good like. His shot stopping in particular is as good anyone’s. Saved us so many points, there’s a chance we’d havevbeen relegated a few times had it not been for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Shay Given was a great shot stopper, probably the best in the league during his time with us. Yeah he was shit at coming out for crosses, but back then you could argue that a lot of keepers were. A lot of keepers back then were shot stoppers. Shay Given would come out of 1 on 1’s preventing the goal more than he conceded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I’m not sure who HTT is writing his posts for anymore. If it’s for himself that’s okay. It helps to imagine him buzzing his tits off gurning like a motherfucker on half of Wallsends supply of cowies while his fingers move at inhuman speed across the keyboard acting as a simple conduit between the world and the rainbow dimension his chemically excited consciousness is currently inhabiting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 He was genuinely a world-class shot stopper, as good as any and at that time, he was better than anyone in the league saving shots with his body and feet in general as he was with his hands. One-on-one despite his size and frame, not many could round him or draw him out to commit himself early. I was very angry and upset with him when he left and felt he betrayed the club and abandoned ship. I’ve since learned the truth and recognise like KK, he was a man of principle, honour and integrity and was forced with no other choice but to severe his ties in the end. I’ll never forget him, Shearer, Dabizas and Speed in particular regularly urging the club to invest in the squad to add quality players in order to target success every summer. All without ever over stepping their roles as senior players or agitating for moves, bumper new deals or holding the club to ransom in order their wishes be fulfilled. The likes of Shay were consummate club men, professional, committed, passionate and as desperate as anyone to bring success to the club and they spoke for every supporter when they urged the club to sign quality players. As for Shay’s qualities, he and Shearer would work together in shooting practice and Shearer often come off second best, citing the only way to beat Shay was in the air by crowding him out, one v ones he’d get a hand to or get his legs in the way of and free kicks and penalties likewise. But then Shearer did say, he wasn’t the toughest test for Shay one v one, unable to better him by rounding him, first time volleys or from balls played in low from pull backs. In the air though, Shay was no match for Big Al. I’m sure the two helped each others’ games enormously and Solano would practice crossing and free kicks with Shay for hours. Noticeably, Robert didn’t and Bellamy didn’t join in shooting practice that often with Shearer too. Maybe it’s no surprise how consistent Shay was with his shot stopping, how clinical in front of goal Shearer was inside the box, how accurate Solano’s crossing was and how erratic Bellamy’s finishing could be and how hit and miss Robert’s crossing could be too. Practice makes perfect. Back then we had a core group of players who trained alone together doing their own things because as mates, they enjoyed working so much more with each other outside of normal training. What a group we had in Shay, Nicos, Speed, Nobby and Shearer, accompanied by the likes of Harper, Hughes, O’Brien and Griffin, the youth, energy, pace, brilliance and naivety adding to it all by Dyer, Bellamy, Bramble, Robert, later Jenas and Woodgate. A team just shy of more experience, quality and leadership to truly challenge the then Man Utd and Arsenal teams and beat then over 38 games. As much as I’m love Sir Bobby, I’ll never forget when leading at the top after Xmas by a few points having beaten Arsenal and Leeds away, he laughed off talk we could win the league and diminished our place at the top as a fluke, as the others not hitting top form yet. Shearer on the other hand said the others were favourite, but we were just as good as them and had every chance as much as they did. Sir Bobby of course was protecting his players against expectation, not wanting to put pressure on the players and of course, his experience alone told him the possibility of winning the league would be less than that of others. But, we were top after Xmas, firing on all cylinders and there was nothing to loose by going for it or at least saying in public, OK, lets give it everything. As positive as he was, the younger players would have looked at him, known how many times he’d been in the same situation, known how many great players he had managed and what is needed and what isn’t and subconsciously probably thought, he’s right, we won’t stay top long and can’t win the league. Kevin Keegan in the same situation.... ?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 He's a liability like. Makes a mistake that leads to a goal against basically every other game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Think I pointed out Dubravka being a liability ages ago and people did not like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 But... better than Shay right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 There's no alternative, though. Woodman's out on loan and the other two we've got are absolute clowns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 He's fine for a team like us with intentions to avoid relegation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 It's no surprise that players' focus and concentration is slipping Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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