Holmesy Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Unless the keeper throws it into his net or has an absolute howler, it's unfair to blame them for stuff like that. They are the absolute last line of defence. He never even thinks about coming out for that if he has faith in the back 4 to get back. The fact that we have the slowest defence in the league is the cause of that goal, both physically and mentally. Saying Dubs should've done this or that is bollocks - if he had stayed on his line and Elanga still scored, people would be saying he should've come out. If you watch it again, he actually closes the chance down really well and limits Elanga's options, he just leaves his legs open to the nutmeg - if you want to criticise him for anything, it would be that and even then it would be extremely harsh. We consistently play a high line against pace, with one of the slowest defences in the league. The blame for that doesn't lie with Dubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said: I just think it's a bit lazy blaming the change of keeper. Surely we can adapt to how we've played previously and not see 2+ goals past us every week. Adapt? Don't be ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I don't even think adapt is the right term. We'd probably be okay if we had one of Tonali, Anderson, Joelinton or Willock to cover some ground. The midfield when we had that run when Howe first turned the corner was Shelvey, Bruno and Longstaff so not exactly the most pacy midfield. Just drop the defensive line 10-15 metres deeper and get Bruno slightly deeper even. I don't know how to put my finger on what I'm trying to explain tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Might even just be something we have to suck up and accept even until Pope and others are back. We could offset our attacking play and be more solid but results might be the same. We've scored 2 or more a game every game since the New Year. We could sacrifice that and start winning 1-0 or 2-1 instead of 3-2, or draw 1-1 instead of 4-4 for instance. I don't know. Howe knows better than every single one of us tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 8 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: I don't even think adapt is the right term. We'd probably be okay if we had one of Tonali, Anderson, Joelinton or Willock to cover some ground. The midfield when we had that run when Howe first turned the corner was Shelvey, Bruno and Longstaff so not exactly the most pacy midfield. Just drop the defensive line 10-15 metres deeper and get Bruno slightly deeper even. I don't know how to put my finger on what I'm trying to explain tbh. I was joking. I do think Howe needs to adapt more. That was about 2 years ago. Opponents have learnt a thing or two about us since then. And we had Joelinton and Willock in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Just now, Optimistic Nut said: Might even just be something we have to suck up and accept even until Pope and others are back. We could offset our attacking play and be more solid but results might be the same. We've scored 2 or more a game every game since the New Year. We could sacrifice that and start winning 1-0 or 2-1 instead of 3-2, or draw 1-1 instead of 4-4 for instance. I don't know. Howe knows better than every single one of us tbf. I think medium/long-term you it's better to exert more control over opponents than being free-scoring. We'll not maintain outperforming our Xg by 2 goals every game like we did on the weekend. We need to tighten up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Pope faced 163 shots in 14 matches Dubs has faced 165 matches in nine matches We’re very lucky to have a number two as good as him - he’s made a few mistakes but the stick he’s getting on social media is insane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 10/02/2024 at 19:41, Newcastle Fan said: Looks more and more like a second choice GK who shouldn't play more than 5 games a season. He's 35 and had injury problems. It's probably not too big of a surprise that this is his level now. He's being overexposed by our porous midfield and slow back line to be fair to him. We're still playing like we have a top level sweeper keeper in goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) I think the answer is a bit of both. Dubravka is making us worse, and is even facing more shots due to him being less proactive in heading off danger early. But also, due to his weaknesses and differences to Pope, there is a strong argument for adjusting our approach to accommodate for them. As @Optimistic Nut said (paraphrasing) we've had worse/identical players playing in the past and achieved better results when playing in a different way, so it's worth examining whether we should be sticking with what we're now doing. Whether the result of the examination is that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater and change up our style is another story, of course. Edited February 12 by 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) It's not just with Dubs tbf, Howe has been loath to change the midfield balance or system despite the fact it doesn't and hasn't really worked for months. Other than in game where we've now switched to a back 5 a couple of times to see out games. I think as a manager he clearly prioritises plan A and imposing on the opposition, rather than reacting tactically to circumstances or the opposition. And probably thinks in the long run it will benefit us more. Edited February 12 by ponsaelius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ponsaelius said: It's not just with Dubs tbf, Howe has been loath to change the midfield balance or system despite the fact it doesn't and hasn't really worked for months. Other than in game where we've now switched to a back 5 a couple of times to see out games. I think as a manager he clearly prioritises plan A and imposing on the opposition, rather than reacting tactically to circumstances or the opposition. And probably thinks in the long run it will benefit us more. Pretty much where I'm leaning. Defend more, change the system, look more solid but lose a lot of what has brought us success. Keep as we are, accept that we're going to look vulnerable but will still score goals. Edited February 12 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, ponsaelius said: It's not just with Dubs tbf, Howe has been loath to change the midfield balance or system despite the fact it doesn't and hasn't really worked for months. Other than in game where we've now switched to a back 5 a couple of times to see out games. I think as a manager he clearly prioritises plan A and imposing on the opposition, rather than reacting tactically to circumstances or the opposition. And probably thinks in the long run it will benefit us more. Aye - this has been my view for about a year now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 6 hours ago, Holmesy said: Unless the keeper throws it into his net or has an absolute howler, it's unfair to blame them for stuff like that. They are the absolute last line of defence. He never even thinks about coming out for that if he has faith in the back 4 to get back. The fact that we have the slowest defence in the league is the cause of that goal, both physically and mentally. Saying Dubs should've done this or that is bollocks - if he had stayed on his line and Elanga still scored, people would be saying he should've come out. If you watch it again, he actually closes the chance down really well and limits Elanga's options, he just leaves his legs open to the nutmeg - if you want to criticise him for anything, it would be that and even then it would be extremely harsh. We consistently play a high line against pace, with one of the slowest defences in the league. The blame for that doesn't lie with Dubs. His starting position means there’s either a big gap between him and the defence or a big gap between defence and midfield though - so the blame lies with his style of goalkeeping unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Firmly believe we need to replace him in the summer. We need a back-up who can play Howe's system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, Ronaldo said: His starting position means there’s either a big gap between him and the defence or a big gap between defence and midfield though - so the blame lies with his style of goalkeeping unfortunately. Blame lies with Howe too surely for not changing things to suit his goalkeeping style or changing something to make it less of a problem, after months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 We played sort of a watered-down, simpler version of this with Dubravka in goal and we weren't as exposed as this. We'd press high, force them the clear it long, Schar and Burn would win the ball in the air near halfway and we'd start again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, ponsaelius said: It's not just with Dubs tbf, Howe has been loath to change the midfield balance or system despite the fact it doesn't and hasn't really worked for months. Other than in game where we've now switched to a back 5 a couple of times to see out games. I think as a manager he clearly prioritises plan A and imposing on the opposition, rather than reacting tactically to circumstances or the opposition. And probably thinks in the long run it will benefit us more. It wasn’t a huge change. But he tweaked the midfield on Saturday, at least. Thought we had more controlled possession for a change. Partly because of Trippier stepping inside and Bruno going further forward. I suppose also because that is how Forest set up. To play on the break. Wr seemed back to pressing a bit higher up the pitch. Which left us wide open for counters and pace in behind. I think we have definitely been sitting deeper since Pope went down. Bar the two games against Forest and maybe Dubs first few games. We have sat deeper, IMO. Although it would be good to find a graphic to confirm or deny that. It’s the space between the midfield and defence that hasn’t been right since all the injuries in there and Dubravka coming in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 On 13/02/2024 at 02:19, Paully said: Pope faced 163 shots in 14 matches Dubs has faced 165 matches in nine matches We’re very lucky to have a number two as good as him - he’s made a few mistakes but the stick he’s getting on social media is insane He’s no. 2 for a reason, and I agree giving the bloke pelters helps no-one. Mind, he’s conceding goals at a rate around 2.5 times higher than Pope, which does tell a story. I also think he concedes more shots because of how deep the defence plays when he’s in nets, and his slowness off his line to clear the ball himself. For me, Dubravka is an ok-ish PL GK - perfectly fine as a back-up. Pope is a really good PL GK, so it’s harsh to constantly compare the two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjb Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 would Karius be any worse than Dubs right now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Dubs hasn’t had an easy ride and he’s suffering a bit from the structural issues in the midfield and the knock on effect to the defence. We’ve conceded a load of goals recently but not that many can be pinned solely on him. One thing I’m not having is Pope as a ‘sweeper keeper’. Are we sure? He’s probably the least equipped GK I’ve seen for a sweeper keeper role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Pope definitely is a sweeper keeper, and really good at reading the game. Main problem is that once he's come out and averted a chance, you can't rely on retaining possession unless he catches the ball with his hands. Usually ends up with pressure on our goal being maintained. Obviously still better than Dubs who is very uncertain on when to come off his line and when not to which in itself has created some dangerous situations. Still, Dubs is one of the more competent reserve keepers in the league. I don't really see the point in stating the obvious that Pope is better. Dubs is still playing at a level where we don't really need to upgrade, which is what many on here were adamant we "needed" when Pope got injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny1403 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, nufcjb said: would Karius be any worse than Dubs right now? What have you seen from Karius that makes you think he'd be better than Dubs? Dubs has had some poor games mixed in with some very solid/good performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouldy_uk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Would love to see Karius get a chance, but there aren’t really any dead rubbers that we can risk him in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, nufcjb said: would Karius be any worse than Dubs right now? no one knows. he got a little stick for the first cup final goal but i think that was harsh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upthemags Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Frankly insane how much stick Dubs gets here and elsewhere considering, for a couple months now, we've been literally the worst club in the top flight by xGA - not a perfect metric by any stretch tbf. I think in December alone Trips let in 7 or 8 goals himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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