Lush Vlad Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, Novocastrian said: Dubs hasn’t had an easy ride and he’s suffering a bit from the structural issues in the midfield and the knock on effect to the defence. We’ve conceded a load of goals recently but not that many can be pinned solely on him. One thing I’m not having is Pope as a ‘sweeper keeper’. Are we sure? He’s probably the least equipped GK I’ve seen for a sweeper keeper role. Really? It's blatantly obvious that he is. He has even got himself in trouble from being too aggressive or misreading it (Liverpool at home last season, West Ham away). He isn't coming out and dribbling it about and then playing Pirlo'esque diagonals, no. But he is quite clearly a sweeper keeper. Even if he is bad with the ball at his feet. Pretty much all keepers are going to come out and clear the danger and the ball into touch. Not come out and start passing it about. https://fbref.com/en/players/4b40d9ca/Nick-Pope Last two stats regarding defensive actions clearly show he is. There was a stat on Sky the other day showing similar. Think it is in the Pope thread, even. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyboy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 He used to play in midfield earlier in his career Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 On 12/02/2024 at 18:38, Aiston said: Blame lies with Howe too surely for not changing things to suit his goalkeeping style or changing something to make it less of a problem, after months. How can you expect a manager to adape to the players he has? 11 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Frankly insane how much stick Dubs gets here and elsewhere considering, for a couple months now, we've been literally the worst club in the top flight by xGA - not a perfect metric by any stretch tbf. I think in December alone Trips let in 7 or 8 goals himself. Part of that Xga is partly down to Dubs though. Like the Forest 1st. It's not a shot on goal with Pope. But I agree with your point in general. We've been awful defensively and Dubs has made some good saves. Back-up goalies is difficult. Next to back-up pure 9's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 yeh Pope is obviously a sweeper keeper. He's aggressive as any off his line outside his box and claiming crosses. I hope people realise how good Pope is now. There's only one GK in the division that brings everything he does + more. Everyone else you're taking some things and giving out other things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 When Pope is fit and full of confidence there's not many better in the league and in Europe. He upped his level with us IMO. Our goals conceded/defensive record with him vs. without him is massively telling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, Lush Vlad said: Really? It's blatantly obvious that he is. He has even got himself in trouble from being too aggressive or misreading it (Liverpool at home last season, West Ham away). He isn't coming out and dribbling it about and then playing Pirlo'esque diagonals, no. But he is quite clearly a sweeper keeper. Even if he is bad with the ball at his feet. Pretty much all keepers are going to come out and clear the danger and the ball into touch. Not come out and start passing it about. https://fbref.com/en/players/4b40d9ca/Nick-Pope Last two stats regarding defensive actions clearly show he is. There was a stat on Sky the other day showing similar. Think it is in the Pope thread, even. Maybe some confusion around the definition of terms. If rushing off your line to blast a ball into Row Z makes you a ‘Sweeper Keeper’ then Pope maybe deserves that monicker. He’s more decisive than Dubs who generally misses the window for action and then has to stay on his line and narrow the angle. Pope’s forays out of the box, or anytime he has the ball at his feet, aren’t contributing to any attacking endeavour though. I’m generally peering through my fingers when he attempts to kick the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, Novocastrian said: Maybe some confusion around the definition of terms. If rushing off your line to blast a ball into Row Z makes you a ‘Sweeper Keeper’ then Pope maybe deserves that monicker. He’s more decisive than Dubs who generally misses the window for action and then has to stay on his line and narrow the angle. Pope’s forays out of the box, or anytime he has the ball at his feet, aren’t contributing to any attacking endeavour though. I’m generally peering through my fingers when he attempts to kick the ball. Right. So what are you expecting exactly? Which keepers in world football come out their box, as the last line of defence and attackers bearing down on them. Then start playing like an actual sweeper in the old school sense? Not many Beckenbaur and Baresi types in nets these days Emi Martinez is brilliant at it. Clears his lines and did so a few times against us. Ederson and Alisson the same. All three are brilliant with the ball at feet, yet still regularly do that. They’re rushing out of their box at full tilt to stop an attack. They’re hardly going to have a touch and start knocking it about. You’re confusing Pope being shit with his feet, which he is. With him not being a sweeper keeper. Surprised it’s even up for debate. It’s obvious to everyone and the stats back it up. Hard to quantify not ‘contributing to any attacking endeavour’ and all. He is certainly helping the defence and if it is pushing the team 10 yards up the pitch. How can you say it isn’t? Edited February 14 by Lush Vlad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 If it hadn't been for that slip destroying his confidence I reckon he saves that second one. 4-5 people slipped like that as well, pretty much sums Dubravka up since he's come back in that he'd be one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Unreal first half and as ON said, that slip killed him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Think his confidence, form or both have been brittle for years now and that slip definitely would be a major setback to it. A keeper lacking in confidence is hazzardous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Awful for the second goal, went down in instalments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I thought he looked really shaky first 5-10 from the early corners and free kicks. Then he was great for the rest of the half. Don’t get me wrong. All of his saves today are ones I’d expect my keeper to be making. But he still made them and they were quality stops. But then he goes and gifts them a goal and along with others, he is at fault for the second. Proper cat flap keeping. Tough gig being a defensive player. Hero to zero in seconds, minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 First Goal was a slip, second I need to see again, looked a great finish from in the ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee_Johnny Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Wolfcastle said: Think his confidence, form or both have been brittle for years now and that slip definitely would be a major setback to it. A keeper lacking in confidence is hazzardous Good job we have Karius in reserve… . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubteam Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, madras said: First Goal was a slip, second I need to see again, looked a great finish from in the ground. Pope saves that, thought it's was quite close to the keeper going off the replays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pubteam said: Pope saves that, thought it's was quite close to the keeper going off the replays. I think if he didn't slip earlier on it's a routine save. He'd been making them all game. You could tell from his reaction the goal killed him off, wouldn't be surprised if he was over-compensating making sure he didn't slip again because he was way too slow getting down I thought. That and their winger having the freedom to do what he wanted and being able to take his time over getting a good contact on the shot. Edited February 17 by Optimistic Nut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Being ignorant here. Typing before reading...we are two down before that slip up, without MD. So anyone blaming Dubravka today is kidding themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubteam Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said: I think if he didn't slip earlier on it's a routine save. He'd been making them all game. You could tell from his reaction the goal killed him off, wouldn't be surprised if he was over-compensating making sure he didn't slip again because he was way too slow getting down I thought. That's the problem with keepers you just remember the ones they don't save. He did pull off some good saves before that, in particular the first half. TBF our outfield players make it very difficult for any keeper, dubs shouldn't be having to face that many shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Just now, pubteam said: That's the problem with keepers you just remember the ones they don't save. He did pull off some good saves before that, in particular the first half. TBF our outfield players make it very difficult for any keeper, dubs shouldn't be having to face that many shots. We could have lost 2 or 3 nil without him today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, Heron said: We could have lost 2 or 3 nil without him today. They were mostly routine saves, I thought. The second Solanke chance he did brilliantly to react, TBF. But it was straight at him. I thought both the first half ones were more poor finishes than world class saves. I’d be annoyed if Isak or Wilson (LOL, like they’d be fit) missed both of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Prontonise Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 He should've saved the 2nd goal, 1st goal is also his fault but a slip happens as there were a few who slipped on that pitch today (I do think it wasn't the greatest of backpass to him as well), just happened at the wrong time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 28 minutes ago, Heron said: We could have lost 2 or 3 nil without him today. He’s there to make saves. Some go on like it’s Ben Arfa against Blackburn every time a ball gets pounded into the keeper’s chest. It really doesn’t take any amount of special ability and it’s the easiest part of being a goalkeeper by far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Prontonise Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: He’s there to make saves. Some go on like it’s Ben Arfa against Blackburn every time a ball gets pounded into the keeper’s chest. It really doesn’t take any amount of special ability and it’s the easiest part of being a goalkeeper by far. Have to agree with this, someone said great save for the routine save in the second half which was one made for the cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 30 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said: They were mostly routine saves, I thought. The second Solanke chance he did brilliantly to react, TBF. But it was straight at him. I thought both the first half ones were more poor finishes than world class saves. I’d be annoyed if Isak or Wilson (LOL, like they’d be fit) missed both of those. Woah slow down there daddeo, apparently there’s an alternate universe where with no keeper in net strikers score goals from 4 yards out. Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Dubravka for having the decency to drive back up from Manchester to get paid to play for us and occasionally do his job or we’d really be up a creek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 35 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said: They were mostly routine saves, I thought. The second Solanke chance he did brilliantly to react, TBF. But it was straight at him. I thought both the first half ones were more poor finishes than world class saves. I’d be annoyed if Isak or Wilson (LOL, like they’d be fit) missed both of those. Perhaps. I haven't seen the replays, but without seeing them (and no offence intended) it feels like simply trying to fit a narrative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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