Heron Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 9 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: He’s there to make saves. Some go on like it’s Ben Arfa against Blackburn every time a ball gets pounded into the keeper’s chest. It really doesn’t take any amount of special ability and it’s the easiest part of being a goalkeeper by far. This is such a simplistic way of viewing it and again, is being said to fit a narrative. If a more likeable keeper is in then everyone applauds those saves, it's wank. I hate the over simplistic view of defensive roles tbh. Whether it be midfielders or keepers, it's properly ignorant. Strikers couldn't do defenders roles and vice versa. Because they have different skill sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Just now, Heron said: Perhaps. I haven't seen the replays, but without seeing them (and no offence intended) it feels like simply trying to fit a narrative. I said in the match thread. Hard to be mad at him for the slip. As he kept us in it first half. They were decent saves. But one tame shot and then one straight at him where he reacted well. You’d expect pro keepers to be saving those. Said similar in here and all. The second he was poor, mind. I don’t think there is a narrative. If you’re suggesting people like to blame him all the while. It feels like there are posters on here that will stick up for him regardless, just as much as the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 48 minutes ago, Heron said: Being ignorant here. Typing before reading...we are two down before that slip up, without MD. So anyone blaming Dubravka today is kidding themselves. those 2 darwin nunez gols at the leazes end... dont think pope got any stick for those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Felt in-stadium, or at least in the Gallowate, it was extremely noticeable that folks were frustrated at how deep he was positioned a lot. I agreed in that he looked very tentative when deciding whether to come out or not on quite a few occasions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, Heron said: This is such a simplistic way of viewing it and again, is being said to fit a narrative. If a more likeable keeper is in then everyone applauds those saves, it's wank. I hate the over simplistic view of defensive roles tbh. Whether it be midfielders or keepers, it's properly ignorant. Strikers couldn't do defenders roles and vice versa. Because they have different skill sets. All keepers make saves, all keepers make important saves. The keepers who win you games have a fair bit more than that. The simplistic thing is giving him credit for doing the most basic aspect of his job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 47 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said: I said in the match thread. Hard to be mad at him for the slip. As he kept us in it first half. They were decent saves. But one tame shot and then one straight at him where he reacted well. You’d expect pro keepers to be saving those. Said similar in here and all. The second he was poor, mind. I don’t think there is a narrative. If you’re suggesting people like to blame him all the while. It feels like there are posters on here that will stick up for him regardless, just as much as the other way around. I just think people like to say he's shit tbh mate. Whereas, as has been for years, GK is arguably our strongest position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 42 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: All keepers make saves, all keepers make important saves. The keepers who win you games have a fair bit more than that. The simplistic thing is giving him credit for doing the most basic aspect of his job. So what aspect of his game can you specifically blame him for today then with this in mind? He slipped for the first, which I'd have thought anyone could have accepted as simply shit luck. The second then I don't know (I haven't seen it again) but to me seems harsh to blame him when it's hit so hard from so close. Like I say, people (imo) just like to use this narrative of Dubravka being shit, but for me we're defensively horseshit as a team now down to strategy not Goalkeeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawberry Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Wonder why Karius is not given a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 11 minutes ago, Strawberry said: Wonder why Karius is not given a game. he's mates with Hall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 During the game I was thinking he was playing well… making saves and passing the ball around well. Particularly some good passes to the fullbacks. Not sure about the second goal, only seen one replay but it was hit very early and very well. Slip a nightmare obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Heron said: So what aspect of his game can you specifically blame him for today then with this in mind? He slipped for the first, which I'd have thought anyone could have accepted as simply shit luck. The second then I don't know (I haven't seen it again) but to me seems harsh to blame him when it's hit so hard from so close. Like I say, people (imo) just like to use this narrative of Dubravka being shit, but for me we're defensively horseshit as a team now down to strategy not Goalkeeper. 1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: During the game I was thinking he was playing well… making saves and passing the ball around well. Particularly some good passes to the fullbacks. Not sure about the second goal, only seen one replay but it was hit very early and very well. Slip a nightmare obviously. He should be saving the second. It’s not hit that well and it’s also not into the corner of the goal either. It is noticeable just how little trust the back four has in him - they’re dropping deeper and deeper game by game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 2 hours ago, Heron said: So what aspect of his game can you specifically blame him for today then with this in mind? He slipped for the first, which I'd have thought anyone could have accepted as simply shit luck. The second then I don't know (I haven't seen it again) but to me seems harsh to blame him when it's hit so hard from so close. Like I say, people (imo) just like to use this narrative of Dubravka being shit, but for me we're defensively horseshit as a team now down to strategy not Goalkeeper. Are you watching the games? He’s 10 yards further back than Pope. There’s either an acre space between him and the defence, or they drop deeper to compensate and amplify the issue of space between back 4 and the nonathletic 3 in midfield. I’m not saying it is all on him but he’s just a horrible replacement for Pope in the context of the way we play. Solid keeper in his own right for a Championship side I guess. As for today he was at fault for both goals unfortunately. He doesn’t deserve inordinate amounts of credit for bad finishing and his usual overly dramatised saves. Edited February 18 by Ronaldo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, pubteam said: Pope saves that, thought it's was quite close to the keeper going off the replays. you THINK Pope saves that. You have no idea, as none of us do, that he definitely would have. It was a hard shot that dipped to the ground just where Dubs was, on slippery surface. Could easily see Pope conceeding it, albeit more likely to save it than Dubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 50 minutes ago, Conjo said: you THINK Pope saves that. You have no idea, as none of us do, that he definitely would have. It was a hard shot that dipped to the ground just where Dubs was, on slippery surface. Could easily see Pope conceeding it, albeit more likely to save it than Dubs. For the "Nick Pope saves that" crowd, go back and see Bournemouth's first goal from at their place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 01:17 Dubs saves that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Both Joes played that day so there were legs, we had no Bruno or striker which accounted for the lack of threat our side, but we conceded 11 shots on target that day, not quite Liverpool away levels but it was at the start of the injury crisis getting shockingly bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 27 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: Both Joes played that day so there were legs, we had no Bruno or striker which accounted for the lack of threat our side, but we conceded 11 shots on target that day, not quite Liverpool away levels but it was at the start of the injury crisis getting shockingly bad. My memory was this was when fatigue was being blamed for performances - Trippier’s altercation with a fan etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 15 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: My memory was this was when fatigue was being blamed for performances - Trippier’s altercation with a fan etc. Yeah, that was the first time we properly hit the wall. There was just no fuel in the tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 7 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: He should be saving the second. It’s not hit that well and it’s also not into the corner of the goal either. It is noticeable just how little trust the back four has in him - they’re dropping deeper and deeper game by game. Like I say, I'd like to see the second again but for me, from the Strawberry Corner it seemed very well hit and from close range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 6 hours ago, Conjo said: 01:17 Dubs saves that If that Pope and Burn interview is right, that one being near post means it's Burn's fault, not Pope's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ronaldo said: Are you watching the games? He’s 10 yards further back than Pope. There’s either an acre space between him and the defence, or they drop deeper to compensate and amplify the issue of space between back 4 and the nonathletic 3 in midfield. I’m not saying it is all on him but he’s just a horrible replacement for Pope in the context of the way we play. Solid keeper in his own right for a Championship side I guess. As for today he was at fault for both goals unfortunately. He doesn’t deserve inordinate amounts of credit for bad finishing and his usual overly dramatised saves. Yes, I am watching the games and the fact that as a team we are leaving our left winger pushed right up and our LB entirely exposed, we have a fairly immobile midfield when it comes to pace and acceleration, a much slower and less intense press than last season and a lack of pace at the back all contribute to the space teams are finding, not just Dubravka being shite. He is deeper and that is probably contributing and there is possibly a lack of confidence compared to that with Pope but for me, we are conceding more because of our inability to maintain intensity through injuries and our "shit or bust" strategy. I also feel that our fans are always desperate for a scapegoat. Presently it seems to be Dubravka and Burn, last season it was Longstaff at times. Just don't get it. If these people aren't good enough then that lies at the managers and clubs door, those lads are giving it their absolute all. Edited February 18 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I thought Dubs did ok yday. Really good 1st half. A few players got caught out by the slippery surface as the rain started during HT which had clearly made the surface greasy. The 2nd was well hit, I’m not sure Pope would have saved it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 9 minutes ago, Heron said: Like I say, I'd like to see the second again but for me, from the Strawberry Corner it seemed very well hit and from close range. Give it another watch. The stills from the Burn thread make it look even worse. It certainly isn’t close range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiekris Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 53 minutes ago, Heron said: Yes, I am watching the games and the fact that as a team we are leaving our left winger pushed right up and our LB entirely exposed, we have a fairly immobile midfield when it comes to pace and acceleration, a much slower and less intense press than last season and a lack of pace at the back all contribute to the space teams are finding, not just Dubravka being shite. He is deeper and that is probably contributing and there is possibly a lack of confidence compared to that with Pope but for me, we are conceding more because of our inability to maintain intensity through injuries and our "shit or bust" strategy. I also feel that our fans are always desperate for a scapegoat. Presently it seems to be Dubravka and Burn, last season it was Longstaff at times. Just don't get it. If these people aren't good enough then that lies at the managers and clubs door, those lads are giving it their absolute all. From start to finish couldn't sum it up any better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Swear this man dived in slow motion yesterday, still not sure how that's possible but honestly it happened! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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