Good old days and the loss of it.

[James]

People in this thread were not here in the 70s and 80s what with McKeag and Lord Westwood. I do, I was there, I felt the ground tremble, and can I tell you that today is much better than the bad old days. Today, we average as the 5th best club in England and have signed several big name players. Has the club shown so much ambition in the past? I think not.

[Toon_Crazy]

The loss to Partizan Belgrade was the start of the downfall to be honest..

[ianovthetoon]

The appointment of Dalglish has to be the main factor where the decline started. He had won the League at his previous two clubs - Liverpool and Blackburn, but had also taken a lot of criticism for it too. It was argued in the press that he inherited a championship winning team at Liverpool, whereas he bought success at Blackburn. If he had only improved the team where it needed improving, ie in Defence who knows what would have happened, maybe we would have moved on to bigger and better things, but Dalglish purposely dismantled the side so if he had succeeded it would have been HIS side that had done it, not the one he inherited from Keegan, because unfortunately for him, that is what the papers would have said

[ElDiablo]

The loss to Partizan Belgrade was the start of the downfall to be honest..

 

Yes, I felt physically sick for about a week after that game, so God knows how it affected the players. We've never been the same after that.

[Kitman]

Mods:

 

Is there anyway of hiding this thread from NE5?

 

Without the usual hijack, this thread seems almost Bambi-esque in its innocence.

 

 

 

 

NE5 and HTL will be going through their stretching exercises and warming up their cocks.  Soccer Master is about to become Ass Master  bluebiggrin.gif 

[ElDiablo]

Mods:

 

Is there anyway of hiding this thread from NE5?

 

Without the usual hijack, this thread seems almost Bambi-esque in its innocence.

 

 

 

 

NE5 and HTL will be going through their stretching exercises and warming up their cocks. Soccer Master is about to become Ass Master bluebiggrin.gif

 

mackems.gif

 

 

:yes:

[Syrette]

[Superior Acuña]

I never undestood why KD didnt work.  Top class manager...:/

[Guest Jai]

The day the club turned into a PLC and Freddie took over as Chairman.

[Sparks]

Not correctly investing in the team back in the summer of 2003. Lee Bowyer on a free was our only purchase, when we needed holding midfielder and two centre backs.

[indi]

Voted for the appointment of Dalglish, but that's not what I actually think, although it is the closest option to it.

 

The real tipping point, in my view, was when we took "no" for an answer from Bobby Robson the first time around.

 

Imagine what he could have done had he taken over from Keegan and received the 2-3 years and £Xmillion that Dalglish and Gullit wasted!! I have absolutely no doubt at all that had Robson been given the job in 1997 we would have won something by now and probably been established as one of the biggest teams in Europe.

 

Walking away from Barcelona without Robson's name on a bit of paper, that was the biggest single mistake - looking back in retrospect - I believe. Personally, I'd have done whatever it took to get him and I don't believe for a second that it was an impossible task, not at all.

 

It could all have been so different... ...if only, eh?

 

Although, I actually thought this at the time, I can't blame the board too much for it, but I still see it as a crucial point in the club's recent history and one where we headed off down the wrong path, a path that ultimately lead us to where we are now.

[Guest BooBoo]

Appointing the Souness Monster took the club back 6 years. Whats worrying is that in the mean time not only have "the big 4" strengthed, but so have many of the once-were-also-rans. The likes of Spurs, Villa, Portsmouth are all a lot stronger meaning it will take the club several years to be in a position to once gain challenge for the CL places.

[Dogmatix]

Voted for the appointment of Dalglish, but that's not what I actually think, although it is the closest option to it.

 

The real tipping point, in my view, was when we took "no" for an answer from Bobby Robson the first time around.

 

Imagine what he could have done had he taken over from Keegan and received the 2-3 years and £Xmillion that Dalglish and Gullit wasted!! I have absolutely no doubt at all that had Robson been given the job in 1997 we would have won something by now and probably been established as one of the biggest teams in Europe.

 

Walking away from Barcelona without Robson's name on a bit of paper, that was the biggest single mistake - looking back in retrospect - I believe. Personally, I'd have done whatever it took to get him and I don't believe for a second that it was an impossible task, not at all.

 

It could all have been so different... ...if only, eh?

 

Although, I actually thought this at the time, I can't blame the board too much for it, but I still see it as a crucial point in the club's recent history and one where we headed off down the wrong path, a path that ultimately lead us to where we are now.

That is the reason I personally never took to Robson ,if he was the supporter he told us he was over and over again,surely he would have told Barcelona.  'Look my home team are after me can I go'? but he never did and he knocked us back.That never rang true with me.Any real fan would give their right ball to play for their home team never mind manage them.I always thought he came to us when his options ran out in Spain,and as Indigoon indicated(for different reasons )it was too late for us.

[Guest BooBoo]

Voted for the appointment of Dalglish, but that's not what I actually think, although it is the closest option to it.

 

The real tipping point, in my view, was when we took "no" for an answer from Bobby Robson the first time around.

 

Imagine what he could have done had he taken over from Keegan and received the 2-3 years and £Xmillion that Dalglish and Gullit wasted!! I have absolutely no doubt at all that had Robson been given the job in 1997 we would have won something by now and probably been established as one of the biggest teams in Europe.

 

Walking away from Barcelona without Robson's name on a bit of paper, that was the biggest single mistake - looking back in retrospect - I believe. Personally, I'd have done whatever it took to get him and I don't believe for a second that it was an impossible task, not at all.

 

It could all have been so different... ...if only, eh?

 

Although, I actually thought this at the time, I can't blame the board too much for it, but I still see it as a crucial point in the club's recent history and one where we headed off down the wrong path, a path that ultimately lead us to where we are now.

That is the reason I personally never took to Robson ,if he was the supporter he told us he was over and over again,surely he would have told Barcelona.  'Look my home team are after me can I go'? but he never did and he knocked us back.That never rang true with me.Any real fan would give their right ball to play for their home team never mind manage them.I always thought he came to us when his options ran out in Spain,and as Indigo indicated(for different reasons )it was too late for us.

 

Rhubarb.

 

Robson was under contract at Barca and stated that he would honour it as he felt he had not given the job a fair crack.

[Dogmatix]

Voted for the appointment of Dalglish, but that's not what I actually think, although it is the closest option to it.

 

The real tipping point, in my view, was when we took "no" for an answer from Bobby Robson the first time around.

 

Imagine what he could have done had he taken over from Keegan and received the 2-3 years and £Xmillion that Dalglish and Gullit wasted!! I have absolutely no doubt at all that had Robson been given the job in 1997 we would have won something by now and probably been established as one of the biggest teams in Europe.

 

Walking away from Barcelona without Robson's name on a bit of paper, that was the biggest single mistake - looking back in retrospect - I believe. Personally, I'd have done whatever it took to get him and I don't believe for a second that it was an impossible task, not at all.

 

It could all have been so different... ...if only, eh?

 

Although, I actually thought this at the time, I can't blame the board too much for it, but I still see it as a crucial point in the club's recent history and one where we headed off down the wrong path, a path that ultimately lead us to where we are now.

That is the reason I personally never took to Robson ,if he was the supporter he told us he was over and over again,surely he would have told Barcelona.  'Look my home team are after me can I go'? but he never did and he knocked us back.That never rang true with me.Any real fan would give their right ball to play for their home team never mind manage them.I always thought he came to us when his options ran out in Spain,and as Indigo indicated(for different reasons )it was too late for us.

 

Rhubarb.

 

Robson was under contract at Barca and stated that he would honour it as he felt he had not given the job a fair crack.

I know he was under contract ,most managers are.I do recall ,though ,that there was ,disquiet,shall we say ,about his job at the time.IIRC very soon after that BR was shuffled out of the way to a position 'up stairs'.And the Dutch brigade moved in.

In his position are you telling me that you would not a least asked your directors if there was any leeway?

I am not privy to the goings on at Barcelona but I think BR may of had some idea that something was going on.

He is well known for his stubborness you know.Maybe thats why he stayed

I realise he is a

hero to many but if you are going to drape a black and white flag around you ,you should act the part as well.This is not meant to be a pop at BR ,but like I said before IF i'd had the skill or talent to play or manage at SJP,I would have dropped ANYTHING I was doing ,to do it.Would you not?

[M4]

Voted for the appointment of Dalglish, but that's not what I actually think, although it is the closest option to it.

 

The real tipping point, in my view, was when we took "no" for an answer from Bobby Robson the first time around.

 

Imagine what he could have done had he taken over from Keegan and received the 2-3 years and £Xmillion that Dalglish and Gullit wasted!! I have absolutely no doubt at all that had Robson been given the job in 1997 we would have won something by now and probably been established as one of the biggest teams in Europe.

 

Walking away from Barcelona without Robson's name on a bit of paper, that was the biggest single mistake - looking back in retrospect - I believe. Personally, I'd have done whatever it took to get him and I don't believe for a second that it was an impossible task, not at all.

 

It could all have been so different... ...if only, eh?

 

Although, I actually thought this at the time, I can't blame the board too much for it, but I still see it as a crucial point in the club's recent history and one where we headed off down the wrong path, a path that ultimately lead us to where we are now.

That is the reason I personally never took to Robson ,if he was the supporter he told us he was over and over again,surely he would have told Barcelona.  'Look my home team are after me can I go'? but he never did and he knocked us back.That never rang true with me.Any real fan would give their right ball to play for their home team never mind manage them.I always thought he came to us when his options ran out in Spain,and as Indigo indicated(for different reasons )it was too late for us.

 

Rhubarb.

 

Robson was under contract at Barca and stated that he would honour it as he felt he had not given the job a fair crack.

 

It's a funny thing! I see that (him wanting to honour his contract at Barca) as even more of a credit to the man he is. Robson was quite simply a saviour for what he did at the club in the first 4years.

[macphisto]

Just been reading this thread and quite surprised that so many people think Dalglish did so badly when you look at the facts!! I doubt he wanted to sell Sir Les but rather it was the decision of the board. He also wasn't to blame for Beardsley getting too old, which meant he lost one of the best players ever to play for the toon. Looking back I find it strange that more of a fuss was not made about Beardsley leaving Newcastle and the impact it would have. I think his leaving had the same effect as say Shearer leaving at the end of last season. The only other player he got rid of was Ginola which he was right in doing because after he got sent off at Arsenal and his move to Barcelona the next summer got blocked was never the same player again.

 

With regards to his signings, after Keegan I think he bought better than any of the other managers since. Yeah you can go on about Rush, Hamilton,Pistone and Anderson but some of his other buys were decent servants, with some still at the club:

 

Solano

Given

Speed

Hamman (Can't deny he's a good player and one we should not have sold)

Dabizas (not really a good defender, but by Newcastle standards he did OK and was fairly cheap)

Griffin (Good buy for the price paid)

Tomasson (did poor for us but I'm including him as he's done enough since then to prove he's a good player)

 

Compared to Gullit who bought absolute rubbish with his only decent signing being Dyer.

 

With regards to Robson, can't deny he did a good job here but most of his signings were poor. Sure he made some half decent signings for little money in Gallagher, Bernard, Acuna but I think he really fell down with his big money signings. Only ones who stand out are Bellamy and Robert and they only lasted a few seasons and we lost money on them!

 

I'm not saying Dalglish's transfer record is fantastic, but rather he did a better job than any of the other managers since him in the transfer market. If anything though it just illustrates how much money we have wasted over the years and for any future manager the first thing I would look at is his record in the transfer market.

 

[merlin]

Just been reading this thread and quite surprised that so many people think Dalglish did so badly when you look at the facts!! I doubt he wanted to sell Sir Les but rather it was the decision of the board. He also wasn't to blame for Beardsley getting too old, which meant he lost one of the best players ever to play for the toon. Looking back I find it strange that more of a fuss was not made about Beardsley leaving Newcastle and the impact it would have. I think his leaving had the same effect as say Shearer leaving at the end of last season. The only other player he got rid of was Ginola which he was right in doing because after he got sent off at Arsenal and his move to Barcelona the next summer got blocked was never the same player again.

 

With regards to his signings, after Keegan I think he bought better than any of the other managers since. Yeah you can go on about Rush, Hamilton,Pistone and Anderson but some of his other buys were decent servants, with some still at the club:

 

Solano

Given

Speed

Hamman (Can't deny he's a good player and one we should not have sold)

Dabizas (not really a good defender, but by Newcastle standards he did OK and was fairly cheap)

Griffin (Good buy for the price paid)

Tomasson (did poor for us but I'm including him as he's done enough since then to prove he's a good player)

 

Compared to Gullit who bought absolute rubbish with his only decent signing being Dyer.

 

With regards to Robson, can't deny he did a good job here but most of his signings were poor. Sure he made some half decent signings for little money in Gallagher, Bernard, Acuna but I think he really fell down with his big money signings. Only ones who stand out are Bellamy and Robert and they only lasted a few seasons and we lost money on them!

 

I'm not saying Dalglish's transfer record is fantastic, but rather he did a better job than any of the other managers since him in the transfer market. If anything though it just illustrates how much money we have wasted over the years and for any future manager the first thing I would look at is his record in the transfer market.

 

 

Agree with a great deal of this - people have short memories and some of Dalglish's signings were excellent(Given, Hamman, Solano AND Tomasson, as he proved at Milan.

Dalglish was basically fired because he fell out with Freddy Fletcher - he was unlucky in that Shearer was injured prior to 97/98 Season, but he was never in danger of taking the club down and I reckon he would have been a success given another season. He was also unpopular with the Press, as he was very wary of them(justifiably-so..!!).

Look at the money Gullit wasted - Maric,Marcelino, Goma etc(AND his arrogance nearly caused a real relegation problem in the end).

 

Basically, the timinng of SBR's sacking and the quality of his replacement were where it all went wrong, but many of the factors mentioned also played a part.

[Guest MalcolmSm1th]

 

 

Rhubarb.

 

Robson was under contract at Barca and stated that he would honour it as he felt he had not given the job a fair crack.

 

It's a funny thing! I see that (him wanting to honour his contract at Barca) as even more of a credit to the man he is. Robson was quite simply a saviour for what he did at the club in the first 4years.

 

Robson has always struck me as a man of his word and where we have true gentlemen he is the last of a dying breed. 

 

If he made a promise to a club to stay with them for a number of years then I would expect him to honour his word.  Let it not be forgotten that other people would have nailed their colours to the Barcelona flag pole because Robson was there and it would be grossly unfair for them to be let down because of the manager deciding that, all of a sudden, the grass was greener elsewhere.

 

Kudos to the man for sticking to his guns and to his contract.  Newcastle may have been his first choice but he also had responsibilities to others elsewhere at the time.  And from what I have read about the man he never took his responsibilities lightly and neither discarded them to suit him at any moment in time.

 

For which I applaud Sir Bobby's decision not to return to Newcastle there and then.

[Nobody]

appointing Souness.

It was right to sack Robson at the time he was sacked and if we would just have appointed a top class manager, we would still be up there (No Souness would've meant no Roeder)

[Guest shearer_united]

*** SACKING OF SOUNESS !!

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Its already been mentioned but....

 

 

PLC.

 

 

At that point we became a book balancing club with the board desperate to flog Les to compensate for Shearer.

 

From then on in its been a mismatch of bad and good decisions which has got us to where we are now

[Cronky]

Things changed after we became a PLC, but the days of Sir John Hall bankrolling the club couldn't last forever.

 

Dalglish took over the club at a difficult time, when the team had already peaked, re-building was necessary, the money had been reduced, but expectations were still high. He didn't handle the pressure well, but the pressure was immense.

 

In recent times, the turning point was surely in the close season after we finished 3rd. The dip was only to 5th place, but the momentum had gone.

[Benwell Lad]

65% go for appointment of Souness and sacking of Robson, which are kind of the same thing, and I would agree that this was the point at which the club turned backwards.

That in turn led to the departure of our most effective player and bad buys and the downward spiral was in motion.

 

However shouldn't the real blame for that rest with the people who essentially orchestrared the above two things, i.e. Shearer and Shepherd.

 

It's so ironic that one of the reasons spouted for this season's terrible start was that the club had failed to adequately replace Shearer.

But didn't Robson go because he DID try to replace Shearer, but the man himself and the chairman were having none of it !

[Cronky]

65% go for appointment of Souness and sacking of Robson, which are kind of the same thing, and I would agree that this was the point at which the club turned backwards.

That in turn led to the departure of our most effective player and bad buys and the downward spiral was in motion.

 

However shouldn't the real blame for that rest with the people who essentially orchestrared the above two things, i.e. Shearer and Shepherd.

 

It's so ironic that one of the reasons spouted for this season's terrible start was that the club had failed to adequately replace Shearer.

But didn't Roson go because he DID try to replace Shearer, but the man himself and the chairman were having none of it !

 

Dead right. I didn't want to say it because I've made the point before. We handled the whole question of Shearer's retirement and replacement in an incredibly unprofessional manner, and Robson was the chief casualty.