Fabian Schär

[The College Dropout]

16 hours ago, Kanji said:

I said this months ago but part of Schar's game is to play the speculative ball more. 

Must be. Or to gain position for a counter press maybe.

 

At least twice a game. He'll just chip it straight to the opposition fullback. Nowhere near another NUFC player. He looks comfortable on the ball so a lot of people ignore it but it happens a fair few times.

 

For whatever reason I don't like it.  If we are to become a top team we need to learn how to progress through midfield and defence against a compact block.

 

I'd rather Schar only play those balls if he thinks something is genuinely on. Otherwise try to hit a winger or pass it through the lines.

 

You look at other "ball playing" CBs in the league and they nearly all have much better pass completion rate.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by The College Dropout

[The Prophet]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Must be.

 

At least twice a game. He'll just chip it straifht to the opposition fullback. Nowhere near another NUFC player.

 

I don't like it though.  If we are to become a top team we need to learn how to progress through midfield and defence against a compact block.

 

Aye, you'd think that'll come with the more quality we add.

 

A big part of our game plan now is to force the opposition out wide where we'll attempt to pin them and win the ball back high up the pitch. If Schar has nothing on, he'll ping it down the channel and the team will push up to initiate that. 

 

Obviously it's far less effective against a low block, which we're encountering more and more of these days.

[joeyt]

I feel at least once a game Schar can ping a perfect ball from the right of midfield straight to ASM or whoever is on the left wing to completely open up the game

 

Not many centre backs can do that

[sushimonster85]

29 minutes ago, joeyt said:

I feel at least once a game Schar can ping a perfect ball from the right of midfield straight to ASM or whoever is on the left wing to completely open up the game

 

Not many centre backs can do that

 

There is also the couple times a game he will start a run from just inside our half that takes him right up to the pen area, bringing in the 'shooooooot' cries. Shows amazing restraint 99% of the time and looks for the pass. I'd be open to him attempting more thunderbastards. Certainly has it in him. 

[Kanj]

50 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Must be. Or to gain position for a counter press maybe.

 

At least twice a game. He'll just chip it straight to the opposition fullback. Nowhere near another NUFC player. He looks comfortable on the ball so a lot of people ignore it but it happens a fair few times.

 

For whatever reason I don't like it.  If we are to become a top team we need to learn how to progress through midfield and defence against a compact block.

 

I'd rather Schar only play those balls if he thinks something is genuinely on. Otherwise try to hit a winger or pass it through the lines.

 

You look at other "ball playing" CBs in the league and they nearly all have much better pass completion rate.

 

 

 

I really don’t care about his speculative passing into those channels, I assume it’s by design and either to trigger the press / pin into corner, relieve some pressure or someone in attack didn’t go and read the pass up there. Absolutely least of our concerns his pass completion % at the moment. He’s absolutely brilliant. 

[Kid Icarus]

The amount of 'best XIs' and 'underrated XIs' of the season I've seen that include every player in our defence except for Schar is unreal like. Botman is an absolute class act, Burn has performed admirably at left back, and Trippier's undoubtedly been the best RB in the league this season, but none of them have been as consistently a 7, 8, or 9 in the way Schar has. Him and Willock are seemingly our invisible cogs, the players that supporters know are absolutely crucial to our success, while fans of other clubs only see everyone else. 

[The College Dropout]

The best teams don't do that. It's very.... Big Sam esque.

 

TBh... Schar has always done that. I think some of it is tactical but some of it is just his style and something that you think could easily be improved upon considering his talent.

 

I'd like to see him carry it more often. He's good at it. Joel Matip does it over 2x as much, he's the benchmark in the league for it.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

The amount of 'best XIs' and 'underrated XIs' of the season I've seen that include every player in our defence except for Schar is unreal like. Botman is an absolute class act, Burn has performed admirably at left back, and Trippier's undoubtedly been the best RB in the league this season, but none of them have been as consistently a 7, 8, or 9 in the way Schar has. Him and Willock are seemingly our invisible cogs, the players that supporters know are absolutely crucial to our success, while fans of other clubs only see everyone else. 

Aye. And Schar is more exposed than Botman too. There's space in behind Trippier that Schar has to deal with. Burn is usually close to Botman which gives him some protection. 

[Lush Vlad]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

The amount of 'best XIs' and 'underrated XIs' of the season I've seen that include every player in our defence except for Schar is unreal like. Botman is an absolute class act, Burn has performed admirably at left back, and Trippier's undoubtedly been the best RB in the league this season, but none of them have been as consistently a 7, 8, or 9 in the way Schar has. Him and Willock are seemingly our invisible cogs, the players that supporters know are absolutely crucial to our success, while fans of other clubs only see everyone else. 

You do wonder how much pundits and so called experts actually watch teams regularly outside of the Sky 6. 
 

It is the same for fans. Outside of highlights and the odd game where they might be on Sky or BT. How much of say, James Ward Prowse, for example. Do people see outside of his worldy free kicks?

 

Schar has been our best defender this season. 100%. 

[Kid Icarus]

Liverpool play it long all the time and have been doing it for years. Chelsea did it all the time under Mourinho. A lot of the best teams do it

[The Prophet]

12 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

The amount of 'best XIs' and 'underrated XIs' of the season I've seen that include every player in our defence except for Schar is unreal like. Botman is an absolute class act, Burn has performed admirably at left back, and Trippier's undoubtedly been the best RB in the league this season, but none of them have been as consistently a 7, 8, or 9 in the way Schar has. Him and Willock are seemingly our invisible cogs, the players that supporters know are absolutely crucial to our success, while fans of other clubs only see everyone else. 

 

I totally agree with you, but I wouldn't say our support appreciate Willock at all. There was absolutely loads getting stuck into him on a regular basis up until recently, despite him being largely very good this season. 

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Liverpool play it long all the time and have been doing it for years. Chelsea did it all the time under Mourinho. A lot of the best teams do it

The Liverpool CB's pass completion rate is considerably higher than Schar's.

 

They're not doing the speculative ball thing or gain territory thing that Schar seems to do. Botman doesn't seem to do it nearly as much either.

 

The game has come a long way from the Mourinho era.

[GeordieDazzler]

The knocking it long into space was highlighted in quite a few analysis’ of our play earlier in the season. You sacrifice possession for winning it again further up the pitch. Feel we do it less now.

[Lenny]

17 hours ago, Kanji said:

I said this months ago but part of Schar's game is to play the speculative ball more. 

Yep, I read similar that both he and Botman are instructed to actively seek the switch as part of our game plan. If he's doing it less it'll likely be due to us trying to adapt our strategy.

[Kid Icarus]

47 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

The Liverpool CB's pass completion rate is considerably higher than Schar's.

 

They're not doing the speculative ball thing or gain territory thing that Schar seems to do. Botman doesn't seem to do it nearly as much either.

 

The game has come a long way from the Mourinho era.

 

I've been watching Henderson and TAA play it speculatively into the channels for Salah for years now. Likewise VVD, Robertson and others. It doesn't really matter who does it, the point is that they play those speculative channel balls regularly. 

[Kanj]

The obssession over Schar's pass completion % when he's generally playing aggressive passes more than anyone else in our team by Dropout is hilarious to me. That's not too far off people getting mad at Ben Arfa losing the ball when he dribbles and attacks. 

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, Kanji said:

The obssession over Schar's pass completion % when he's generally playing aggressive passes more than anyone else in our team by Dropout is hilarious to me. That's not too far off people getting mad at Ben Arfa losing the ball when he dribbles and attacks. 

 

I always cite the same stat for things like that, Messi had the lowest through ball success rate in La Liga for years.

[magvicar]

To think we only paid around 3 million for Schar.

Deal of the century.

[Kanj]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I always cite the same stat for things like that, Messi had the lowest through ball success rate in La Liga for years.

 

I actually want Schar to hit more balls into space/channels and carry it far more too. I don't fault anything in his game tbh. The speculative balls to nobody in the channels are probably tactical (rugby style, move everyone up the pitch). The carrying ability he has is underated too, would love for him to do that more. And finally, his cross field diagnoals are immense as others point out. 

 

The least of our concerns are the potential 5-10 pts of % completion he could get if he was "more careful" 

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

 

I totally agree with you, but I wouldn't say our support appreciate Willock at all. There was absolutely loads getting stuck into him on a regular basis up until recently, despite him being largely very good this season. 

 

Yeah you're right there like. I guess at least we do have people who appreciate him, whereas outside of our fanbase those people are nigh on non-existent. 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

 

I totally agree with you, but I wouldn't say our support appreciate Willock at all. There was absolutely loads getting stuck into him on a regular basis up until recently, despite him being largely very good this season. 

 

He was getting plenty of stick on here too, that's why it's been a pleasant surprise that he's getting some credit after Sunday. I think people are starting to look beyond his facial expressions and the goals he's not getting this time round.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I've been watching Henderson and TAA play it speculatively into the channels for Salah for years now. Likewise VVD, Robertson and others. It doesn't really matter who does it, the point is that they play those speculative channel balls regularly. 

A weakness of Henderson's game - is that he's not the best on the ball. That's not a strength of his game. Why are you bringing it up? 

TAA does do speculative balls that is true. But he also records league high progressive passes. So there's massive upside. There's not that with Schar.

VVD's pass completion is 90%. Matip 89% it goes on.

 

Schar's completion rate is noticeably lower and he pulls off long passes at a low hit rate too. Botman isn't doing it anywhere near as much as Schar so i'm unsure how much of it is tactical.

 

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I always cite the same stat for things like that, Messi had the lowest through ball success rate in La Liga for years.

But he also has the most assists or right up there. So you have to look at other things. The same applies for Bruno Fernandes. He gives the ball away loads but also creates bucketloads and is up there with the leagues best for shot creation etc. TAA also gives it away a load but has league high stats in assists, progressive passing etc. That isn't the same with Schar. He gives it away a bucketload and there isn't a massive upside elsewhere.

 

It's a relatively small criticism but it's entirely valid.

 

I raised this same argument early doors about Sissoko. Peopl eventually hated him for it.... but he always did what he did people just refused to see it.

[Kanj]

I don't ever see VVD or Matip play the same speculative balls though or try aggressive passing. It's long balls to people directly or simple passes to the midfield. 

[Kid Icarus]

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

A weakness of Henderson's game - is that he's not the best on the ball. That's not a strength of his game. Why are you bringing it up? 

 

I'm not? I'm bringing up his speculative balls into the channels, usually to Salah. And as I say, it's not limited to Henderson, TAA, VVD, Robertson all do it too they all just happen to be incredibly good at it. The point being that you were saying 'the top teams don't do that' and that it's 'big sam-esque' despite Liverpool doing it regularly for years now. 

 

19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

But he also has the most assists or right up there. So you have to look at other things. The same applies for Bruno Fernandes. He gives the ball away loads but also creates bucketloads and is up there with the leagues best for shot creation etc. TAA also gives it away a load but has league high stats in assists, progressive passing etc. That isn't the same with Schar. He gives it away a bucketload and there isn't a massive upside elsewhere.

Yes, the points you're making there are exactly why I bring up that stat about Messi. 

[The College Dropout]

29 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I'm not? I'm bringing up his speculative balls into the channels, usually to Salah. And as I say, it's not limited to Henderson, TAA, VVD, Robertson all do it too they all just happen to be incredibly good at it. The point being that you were saying 'the top teams don't do that' and that it's 'big sam-esque' despite Liverpool doing it regularly for years now. 

 

Yes, the points you're making there are exactly why I bring up that stat about Messi. 

No top team does the chip pass not near any team mates to the extent Schar does it.

 

Top teams do not tend to have CBs that complete that have 75% pass completion rates. None of Liverpool's CB's do.

 

 No top team has a player with such low pass % rate for his position that doesn't have significant upside to the passing elsewhere.

 

Henderson's speculative balls are a feature of his game rather than a tactical idea from Klopp. Here's his speculagtive balls to Croatian players. It's not the mark of a top player. But he has other great attributes to his game. Even Bruno Fernandes.. he's not in that top bracket because other 10's can build possession (Odegaard for example) as well as create.