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Joelinton

Stifler

by Stifler
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David Edgar

David Edgar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Nine said:

He’s had a great run at CM since January and had a game today that was poetic in that he got a start in his old position up top which paid off with a couple of goals, but play him in ASMs position? Let’s calm down a bit :lol:

 

 

 

 

He scored both goals after being moved to the left wing...

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David Edgar

David Edgar

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I think he would be over the course of next season.  Would be more reliable, do more defensive work and be able to offer more of a presence in the box. 

 

I'm assuming Howe is looking to add a CM who can do the physical work that Joelinton offers, whilst also being better in possession.

 

 

Edited by David Edgar

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David Edgar

David Edgar

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Long term, yeah.  We'll be able to replace him with a better player.  I honestly can't see him being able to maintain his effort and play to a system that needs him to be more of a team player and carry out defensive duties.  That's what we need to progress.  Gone are the Bruce days where he got plenty of leniency so he could produce a moment of magic.  We've got a competent coach now who will expect everyone to play to a system.  It is sad, but I doubt ASM will be able to do that consistently.

 

Like, he did much better second half today.  But that was a huge contrast to the first half.  And he's been patchy for some time now.  I'd really welcome it if he could improve and play a more rounded game in attack and defence.  I really would.  But I honestly can't see him doing it.  Would be amazing if he did.

 

 

Edited by David Edgar

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David Edgar

David Edgar

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Posted

It's the same for why Hatem - who I adore more than any footballer in the world - never locked down a consistent place at an elite club.  Couldn't play the team sport in both attack and defence.  Too much of a maveric.  The modern game hasn't got time for them at the very top level.

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Nine

Nine

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As you say you've based that off of the last couple of years, so have you seen how Joe lacks consistentcy in the box over the last few years? I dont believe he can adapt his game in the box enough to be consistently effective on a front 3, he generally struggles in the box just pushing up from CM. He seems to me like he lacks the mental side of attacking, making the right decision quickly in terms of passing or shooting.. just lacks that clinical cutting edge you need in the final third. ASM while inconsistent also has bad decision making in trying to beat 3/4 players alot of the time (because teams put 2/3 players on him which we'd lose with Joe there) but in and around the box is 10x more deadly than Joe, CM is Joes best position in this side and with a new CM in the shape of Bissouma or Phillips (these 2 probably would cost to much but you get the type of midfielder I mean) this team can afford to play a luxury player like ASM on the left especially with Targett behind him. 

 

I just think its madness to expect Joe to perform consistently up top after what we've seen from him since he signed, while he could be industrious in that role its just not his position at all and we'd lose alot more than we'd gain by just keeping ASM there. Coming off the bench for ASM? Yes. Starting in CM? Yes. Starting over ASM? No.

 

 

Edited by Nine

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David Edgar

David Edgar

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Posted (edited)

But Joelinton wouldn't be playing the same role as at striker.  And whilst he does the cm destroyer stuff well, he is slow and limited when passing.  That's less of an issue playing out wide.

 

ASMs goals and assists have dried up a lot in recent weeks.  That has coincided with the team really developing its system and not having to rely on moment of genius.  It also means ASM is expected to do more off the ball.  I honestly think ASMs goal and assist output would always be much lower when more is asked of him in defence.  

 

I think Joelinton is naturally suited to play from wide.  You're right, his composure isn't great.  But he wouldn't need to be a focal point goalscorer from wide.  He'd get 6/7 goals a year and that would be fine.  Cos he offers so much more in defence and transition.  He'd add so much extra control to our left side cos he has the physicality and effort to do a lot of work with the fullback and LCM.  Way more than ASM would ever do. 

 

 

Edited by David Edgar

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Nine

Nine

Posted
Posted (edited)

I get what you are saying and im not trying to suggest that Joe would be completely uselss from out wide but I just cant see how we'd be any more effective than just keeping ASM there, it just doesnt add up to me. I dont think the direction this team is headed will call for an workhorse type of the left of a front 3, we pretty much have that already on the right with Fraser and we have seen how that doesnt really cut it in this league. Other than today we have scored very few goals from passages of play or even open play at all since Howe came in and I dont think that will change by playing Joe in that position if anything we'd lose progress there, as you say he wouldnt need to be a focal point but hes not creative enough either nor does he make runs or have the movement to cause problems for PL level defenders. He could do a job there much like Miggy does (I think Miggy is a better wide option than Joe) but would not excel and it'd be frustrating to watch after a few weeks, I really think Joes future in this team is either at CM or coming off of the bench. I love the guy to death btw, my fav player currently. 

 

 

Edited by Nine

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Happinesstan

Happinesstan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

I'm sure he's never struck a ball that cleanly before. Ironically I suppose Brentford at home was quite similar in terms of how it just fell to him and whack.

 

Really, really hope he can find his feet in the box. He'd genuinely have a bit of everything if he could add a few more goals to his game. Mind 4 in however many games since Howe arrived is hardly a desperate return. 

Two very different finishes today, both executed perfectly. Incredible that he finds his shooting boots at the very time it was required. Don't think you can credit anybody with that, but it's one of those things that just happens when everything else is right.

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Amir_9

Amir_9

Posted
Posted

James Perch levels of redemption here except this guy cost £40m and at a certain point was listed as one of the biggest premier league flops

 

Superb effort and resilience. His performance against Man U at home remains to be one of my favourites same with his goal Brentford away. 

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KaKa

KaKa

Posted
Posted (edited)

Nagelsman absolutely loved the guy, and so I just could not accept that he was as bad as he looked under Bruce. Terrifying how important a good manager is, and thank God the new owners got that call right straightaway with Howe.

 

Going from Nagelsman to Steve Bruce must have been an absolute nightmare for him, which of course meant going from pressing high up the pitch and playing more of a possession game with lots of support around him high up the pitch, to sitting deep and being upfront alone and isolated from the other 10 players who were camped out in their own box.

 

He's in a team and style of play much better suited to him now and he is just going to keep playing well and getting better, as he has the hunger, desire and work ethic to do so. Takeover was so massive for the guy. Crazy stuff.

 

 

Edited by KaKa

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Lotus

Lotus

Posted
Posted

Tbf I did suggest he could be moved to play further up the pitch even when he was killing it in midfield.

Not that today is sure fire proof he can but it’s a step in the right direction.

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Ikon

Ikon

Posted
Posted (edited)

I love him. However I’m undecided on his position when thinking long term. I don’t think it will be in central midfield starting for us.  Especially if we are looking to control games properly. 
 

I think we need a proper link between Bruno and attack plus one box to box that is great in possession.  Depends on if we are going for some sort of triangle or a more balanced 3 in a line more or less, where we are looking for Moore creativity from the wide players.  He could grow into that box to box role though. Then have someone more advanced and creative. 

 

 

Edited by Ikon

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Guest HTT II

Guest HTT II

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Ikon said:

I love him. However I’m undecided on his position when thinking long term. I don’t think it will be in central midfield starting for us.  Especially if we are looking to control games properly. 
 

I think we need a proper link between Bruno and attack plus one box to box that is great in possession.  Depends on if we are going for some sort of triangle or a more balanced 3 in a line more or less, where we are looking for Moore creativity from the wide players.  He could grow into that box to box ne to do that role though. Then have someone more advanced and creative. 

 

 

 

 

It’s just good to know we have a player who can do a numbers roles, his versatility may be his biggest strength. Again, he was a defensive destroyer yesterday, a left winger, a right winger and a centre-forward and in our own box made several interceptions, blocks and clearances with his head. I don’t think he will ever have a best position because ultimately sadly, he’s not great in any, but he can be decent enough in a few as he’s shown. As harsh as it sounds, wherever he plays, we could sign someone better to do whatever role he may or may not be used for.

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Ikon

Ikon

Posted
Posted
Just now, gbandit said:

Decent enough? He’s been outstanding in many games in midfield. He’s class man, if he continues to improve in front of goal then he’ll be a brilliant player 


 

He has been outstanding in many games. Time will tell if he can be it when we have some teams parking the bus at our place. 

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Guest HTT II

Guest HTT II

Posted
Posted
Just now, gbandit said:

Decent enough? He’s been outstanding in many games in midfield. He’s class man, if he continues to improve in front of goal then he’ll be a brilliant player 

He’s been outstanding at doing various things, but not overall in my opinion. He is class as a person and given his versatility, but he’s not class in any position, far from it. 

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BGRM

BGRM

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, HTT II said:

He’s been outstanding at doing various things, but not overall in my opinion. He is class as a person and given his versatility, but he’s not class in any position, far from it. 

I agree with this. He is the type of player that all teams need though. Hopefully, he can improve with some more quality players around him.

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