Unbelievable Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Regarding FFP impact, ASM was signed in august 2019 on a six year deal worth approx. £20m (if reports at the time are to be believed). For the next two years we’d still amortise £3.3m per season (plus wages obviously). Any fee we’d get on top of £6.6m would count as profit towards FFP and we’d be allowed to spend that amount times five this season, amortising those contracts over the next five years. All good so far. What people seem to forget is that spending that profit *5 now means we are restricting future spend. Let’s say we sell Maxi for £30m. That gives us £23.4m * 5 = £117m wiggle room in terms of FFP. However, if we were to spend this on Barnes and say one or two more, rather than amortising £3.3m for the next two years (and nothing more if we extend his contract afterwards), we’re now amortising roughly £25m (plus more wages) every year for the next five years. That’s money which we will need to earn commercially or by trading other good players before we can spend any further. I understand this is the way we need to grow and develop, but I’m not sure if many people realise that creating room in our FFP budget in this way comes at a cost in terms of what we then can and can’t do in the future. Personally I believe this effect of FFP to be a bit ridiculous. Normally you’d applaud clubs for using their assets beyond their amortised value, i.e. using players from their own academy. Under the current rules it’s exactly those players that would be sold off in order to fund further investment, or worse mortgaging of the club’s future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1pe Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 I’m starting to sound like a broken record but given the state of transfer fees now €25m for ASM with his prime years ahead of him while he’s sat on a 3 year deal is all kinds of shit for us. He has one good season where some of his chances are converted and that fee is literally doubled. I know he’s got some haters but that isn’t a highly unlikely scenario either. We’re getting bumped here. To sign Harvey Barnes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack27 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, LV said: What does ‘payment terms are strong’ mean?? Add ons maybe?? Cash up front Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1pe Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Just now, Jack27 said: Cash up front Does that actually matter in ffp terms? I’ve no idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack27 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Just now, St1pe said: Does that actually matter in ffp terms? I’ve no idea. Not sure about FFP but for cash flow it must be lovely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, St1pe said: Does that actually matter in ffp terms? I’ve no idea. No it doesn’t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Jack27 said: Not sure about FFP but for cash flow it must be lovely In this case is it not just like transferring money from one account to another? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Jack27 said: Not sure about FFP but for cash flow it must be lovely Also very much doubt we have a cash flow issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, St1pe said: I’m starting to sound like a broken record but given the state of transfer fees now €25m for ASM with his prime years ahead of him while he’s sat on a 3 year deal is all kinds of shit for us. He has one good season where some of his chances are converted and that fee is literally doubled. I know he’s got some haters but that isn’t a highly unlikely scenario either. We’re getting bumped here. To sign Harvey Barnes. Agree with this, bar the very last bit. I find it odd that people are so down on Barnes. I’m disappointed that ASM is leaving and for less than I think he’s worth. Whilst also excited by the prospect of signing Barnes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 €25m is a joke given the Neves and Fabinho fees. Payment terms mean fuck all unless it’s another €15m in bonuses and add ons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsays Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: No it doesn’t I think the only time it makes a difference is for perfomance related bonuses which cant be counted until those requirements are met. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Not fussed Maxi's going He's worth what anyone is prepared to pay Barnes can score 10 goals a season. Basics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: Also very much doubt we have a cash flow issue Did 'Just Stop Oil' suddenly win and we missed it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 I thought ASM could have an Almiron-esque season next year so I don’t like the news, especially not at 25m. I thought if anyone from the PL came in, it would be 40 and if it’s bloody Saudi, they would pay north if 50. The guy gets bums on seats, he’s a rare type of player that is exciting and worth the entry fee alone, so surprised it’s not translated into an inflated worth. Not as though he’s in his final year or he’s had a bad few years or anything. So it doesn’t make sense. If we sold for 25+ and it allowed us to get Barnes Chiesa Tierney, Livramento and Todibo it’s obviously a no brainer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Give it's now been reported multiple times we want more than €25 million and the club have stated this is to give us more capacity under FFP, I assume some folk just miss having a whinge at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack27 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, kingxlnc said: I thought ASM could have an Almiron-esque season next year so I don’t like the news, especially not at 25m. I thought if anyone from the PL came in, it would be 40 and if it’s bloody Saudi, they would pay north if 50. The guy gets bums on seats, he’s a rare type of player that is exciting and worth the entry fee alone, so surprised it’s not translated into an inflated worth. Not as though he’s in his final year or he’s had a bad few years or anything. So it doesn’t make sense. If we sold for 25+ and it allowed us to get Barnes Chiesa Tierney, Livramento and Todibo it’s obviously a no brainer. think you might need to limit those expectations big man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Just now, kingxlnc said: I thought ASM could have an Almiron-esque season next year so I don’t like the news, especially not at 25m. I thought if anyone from the PL came in, it would be 40 and if it’s bloody Saudi, they would pay north if 50. The guy gets bums on seats, he’s a rare type of player that is exciting and worth the entry fee alone, so surprised it’s not translated into an inflated worth. Not as though he’s in his final year or he’s had a bad few years or anything. So it doesn’t make sense. If we sold for 25+ and it allowed us to get Barnes Chiesa Tierney, Livramento and Todibo it’s obviously a no brainer. It’s robbing us out of another £15m of profit. We paid £20m as a gamble for ASM and only cover our money back in a period where fees have significantly inflated. Don’t think so, it’s shit business sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Nucasol said: €25m is a joke given the Neves and Fabinho fees. Payment terms mean fuck all unless it’s another €15m in bonuses and add ons. Neves, 26yr old, 41 games for Portugal = £47m Fabinho, 29yr old, 29 games for Brazil = £40m Maxi, 26yr old, 0 games for France = £25m+ Seems fair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 5 hours ago, samptime29 said: I get ASM goals and assists should be higher but he's arguably one of the best players at creating space in the league. I really feel he has tried to adapt to what Howe wants and has made good progress in that regard. I love Howe and always trust his judgement but he worried he's making an avoidable mistake here. Not sure selling him can be regarded as potentially making a mistake. Making a mistake would be keeping ASM and not being able to buy any other players this transfer window which is certainly what Howe is implying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said: Not fussed Maxi's going He's worth what anyone is prepared to pay Barnes can score 10 goals a season. Basics Antony scored 8 for Man Utd last season and the general consensus is that he's been absolutely shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Just now, Eveready said: Antony scored 8 for Man Utd last season and the general consensus is that he's been absolutely shite. Also with far better defensive statistics than Barnes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyCisse Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 19 minutes ago, LV said: What does ‘payment terms are strong’ mean?? Add ons maybe?? If I had to guess larger payment upfront closer to the full amount? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy Chop Chop Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 Currently my favourite player to watch, but we have to trust Howe and his advisers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyCisse Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Eveready said: Antony scored 8 for Man Utd last season and the general consensus is that he's been absolutely shite. Aye but he was 80m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted July 19, 2023 Share Posted July 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Eveready said: Antony scored 8 for Man Utd last season and the general consensus is that he's been absolutely shite. Antony has played 19 times for Brazil and cost £95m plus £5. Definitely shit for that money. Makes Harvey Barnes look a steal. Next Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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