Callum Wilson set to be out for around 8 weeks with new hamstring injury (Howe)

[Yorkie]

Is Isak can play RW then fine, we don't know if he can yet. But if he can't then I don't think we should be shy in dropping the three attackers thing. Maxi's not indispensable when you've got Isak and Wilson available, and what an option off the bench. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Going to be pretty fascinating to see how Howe deals with it. Merits for sticking with 4-3-3 but also options to go some form of 3-5-2 or 4-4-2, tbh. Nice to have the options in-game.

 

The answer for Fulham is 4-3-3 with Isak taking the LW position, imo. The worry with Isak out wide is the defensive side of the game but Joelinton does all that covering for Maxi anyway normally. It'd be pretty like-for-like but you'd expect Isak to tuck Infield more than ASM and generally be more of a direct threat to goal and a fantastic counter option. Once they're all fit, I think we'll first try putting all 3 in the front 3 but perhaps shift the midfield behind them a bit to compensate for defensive structure.

 

If everyone's fit, might be something more like:

 

             Shelvey

   Bruno             Joelinton 

 

    Isak   Wilson   ASM

 

Bruno covers defensive space way better than Willock. With Isak as wide forward, there's less need for a midfielder to be consistently driving into the box on that side. Trippier provides the real width anyway. Worry here is that Shelvey still isn't very good defensively, despite his improved performances.

[Myleftboot]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I think it's important that they find a way to get Wilson and Isak playing effectively together. They're the goals so ideally we can get them sharing the pitch as much as possible. 

 

Howe has been wedded to the 4-3-3 since the turn of the year; I could be wrong but a look at the line-ups suggests Man City at home on 19 December as the last time we didn't set up this way. It's crucial that Howe finds another way of playing if we're going to have any chance of sustaining our form. Not saying our philosophy should be to adapt to every opponent, a la the Pardew days, cos that's no way to play the game. But to have some adaptability, in order to get the most out of the squad. 

 

Shelvey and Bruno could probably manage the CM in a 4-4-1-1, but we've not got the wide men for that; you're looking at Fraser, Murphy and Ritchie as our only orthodox wingers. I would be really curious to see what a 3-4-1-2 might look like with this squad, with the width provided by wing-backs rather than the set-up above, or sticking with 4-3-3 and putting a striker on the wing. 

 

                            Pope

         Schar          Burn        Botman

Trippier                                       Targett

                  Bruno      Shelvey 

                         Joelinton

             Isak                    Wilson

 

Could even put Miggy in that Joelinton position, in a reprisal of his role under Rafa, buzzing around the attackers and making space. In fact he'd probably be more suited than Joe, who could play in Shelvey's position above. 

 Looks good.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Could go to a 4-5-1 for a Brazilian double pivot too with Isak buzzing in and around Wilson but effectively operating as a second striker. I'm not sure we'll deviate from the midfield 3 though.

[Hanshithispantz]

He wouldn't be getting shunted out wide to make room for Wilson though, he'd probably be better starting out there at the minute. 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[Jaqen]

Posted this a while back, he has the dribbling ability and stats to back it up and naturally plays in the channels and drifts wide anyway. There's nothing to suggest he wouldn't do a good job outwide in the current system. He'd essentially be a forward starting outwide like Ronaldo was at Madrid not an out and out winger. 

 

The Swede has averaged 13.2 take-on attempts per 100 touches in La Liga this season – the highest rate of any striker to have played 500 minutes in the competition, while also ranking him in the 99th percentile among all players across the big five European leagues. It’s symbolic of Isak’s game that he shares the top end of this ranking with a host of Europe’s most lively wingers. Theirs is a school that he borrows from regularly during his day job as Real Sociedad’s number nine.

“The coach wants me to be a modern striker, to press a lot and work hard without the ball, and then once we have it there are no boundaries,” Isak said in an Independent interview last year. “I’ve become more dangerous in the spaces. People will always count the goals, I want to score, but I want to be a modern striker. I love playing football and that means being involved as much as possible.”

This mixture results in a style of forward play not dissimilar to the type with which Thierry Henry terrorised the Premier League with during the 2000s. Like the Frenchman, Isak is most comfortable when he’s on the move and he mixes in his classic penalty area runs with regular drifting into the channels to drag defenders into matchups they’d rather not entertain. Whether in a pure foot race or from a point of fronting them up with a dribble, Isak is skilled enough to beat full backs and simply too quick for most centre backs. When he drops deeper to receive, Isak’s accelerations towards the teeth of the defence can wreak havoc for unorganised opponents.

[Hanshithispantz]

2 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

Posted this a while back, he has the dribbling ability and stats to back it up and naturally plays in the channels and drifts wide anyway. There's nothing to suggest he wouldn't do a good job outwide in the current system. He'd essentially be a forward starting outwide like Ronaldo was at Madrid not an out and out winger. 

 

 

 

Aye, it's been frustrating watching him rarely touch the ball the last couple of games given his obvious quality on it.

[HaydnNUFC]

37 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I think it's important that they find a way to get Wilson and Isak playing effectively together. They're the goals so ideally we can get them sharing the pitch as much as possible. 

 

Howe has been wedded to the 4-3-3 since the turn of the year; I could be wrong but a look at the line-ups suggests Man City at home on 19 December as the last time we didn't set up this way. It's crucial that Howe finds another way of playing if we're going to have any chance of sustaining our form. Not saying our philosophy should be to adapt to every opponent, a la the Pardew days, cos that's no way to play the game. But to have some adaptability, in order to get the most out of the squad. 

 

Shelvey and Bruno could probably manage the CM in a 4-4-1-1, but we've not got the wide men for that; you're looking at Fraser, Murphy and Ritchie as our only orthodox wingers. I would be really curious to see what a 3-4-1-2 might look like with this squad, with the width provided by wing-backs rather than the set-up above, or sticking with 4-3-3 and putting a striker on the wing. 

 

                            Pope

         Schar          Burn        Botman

Trippier                                       Targett

                  Bruno      Shelvey 

                         Joelinton

             Isak                    Wilson

 

Could even put Miggy in that Joelinton position, in a reprisal of his role under Rafa, buzzing around the attackers and making space. In fact he'd probably be more suited than Joe, who could play in Shelvey's position above. 

 

Chelsea away on 13 March is the last time we didn't play 4-3-3. If we went to a back 3, good luck getting ASM in that starting lineup; given he's our most creative player atm he has to play. And Almiron never played behind the strikers under Benitez, he played on the left of the front 3 in the 3-4-3 we played post February which oft had us sitting off teams. We never had more than 54% possession in any game home or away post February either which isn't what Howe wants us to be imo.

 

When Wilson is back (before he gets crocked again) we'll lineup with Isak next to him and ASM or the next best fit winger on the left, it'll look like Isak is playing RW on a team sheet but he'll in reality be a lot closer to Wilson with Trippier providing the width. Glimpses of Trippier being the width were there to be seen 2nd half on Saturday but mainly because he was the only one in the side that looked even remotely like creating something. We enormously miss ASM when trying to break sides down and him not playing handicaps us imo.

[Yorkie]

Aye he was based from the left tbf (remember the craic about us worrying Ritchie refused to pass to him ); my recollection of it was:

 

Perez       Almiron 

       Rondon

 

... but pretty fluid with the withdrawn two buzzing around, working the channels and creating space. So 3-4-2-1, and therefore Isak for Perez and Wilson for Rondon.

[HaydnNUFC]

4 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Aye he was based from the left tbf (remember the craic about us worrying Ritchie refused to pass to him ); my recollection of it was:

 

Perez       Almiron 

       Rondon

 

... but pretty fluid with the withdrawn two buzzing around, working the channels and creating space. So 3-4-2-1, and therefore Isak for Perez and Wilson for Rondon.

 

Away from home against the bigger sides, maybe. I always wondered why that last season after we were robbed of a point or 3 at Chelsea we never went back to the system we played that day; we played our 4-3-3 at Spurs and Man City where we conceded 10 and scored 1 goal across those two games. 

 

However I think 4-3-3 will be our primary system at SJP against all the teams in the league and away from home in games where we're looking or expectant to win. We've seen the good (Forest, Man City) and bad (Palace, Bournemouth) of it so far as we're still missing the depth; when sides sit deep which they will start doing when coming up here we lack the quality to break them down. Almiron and Fraser are not good enough especially in this regard, the former is useful for games where we press but creatively he's fairly garbage. 2 goal involvements in his last 38 appearances with Fraser only marginally better. 

 

However given the performance at Anfield in the 4-3-3 I can't see us moving away from it and arguably rightly so as it's the system that saw us safe last season, Howe is just implementing a change in the style of football and identity which will only be mastered once the Ashley era dregs used to counter attacking low possession football are eased out of the squad.

[HaydnNUFC]

Think this speaks volumes as well. We've been rancid with the ball for over 18 years, it'll take time.

 

 

[gjohnson]

15 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Think this speaks volumes as well. We've been rancid with the ball for over 18 years, it'll take time.

 

 

Nothing like a good cherry pick to make something look terrible. 

 

eg that Fulham one in 2004 was a total freak result

 

Got to remember who has been in charge for the last 5 years to explain the possession stat, and having a few standout games where we've dominated the play and lost doesn't make for 18 years of being poor.

 

Notice the lack of inclusion of games where we've barely broken 30% possession and won?

 

 

[HaydnNUFC]

53 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Nothing like a good cherry pick to make something look terrible. 

 

eg that Fulham one in 2004 was a total freak result

 

Got to remember who has been in charge for the last 5 years to explain the possession stat, and having a few standout games where we've dominated the play and lost doesn't make for 18 years of being poor.

 

Notice the lack of inclusion of games where we've barely broken 30% possession and won?

 

 

 

Well, yeah, that's the point of the statistic(s)? Howe wants us to move toward being a side that regularly dominates the ball and play but in the few times that we've done that we haven't got the results or goals to show for our possession. That'll change but it will take time and transfer windows.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[TRC]

High possession stats for a team of our quality are going to show losses or draws. All of these games the opposition were either incredibly lucky - Fulham, Sunderland, or hanging on to their result. Its very unlikely to get a 2 or more goal win and have 70% possession unless you are a top tier team as the intensity drops off.

 

The Palace game we scored in the 95th minute.

 

If anyone remember that fucking Fulham game - It was the most underserved 4-1 loss I've ever seen.

[HaydnNUFC]

33 minutes ago, TRC said:

High possession stats for a team of our quality are going to show losses or draws. All of these games the opposition were either incredibly lucky - Fulham, Sunderland, or hanging on to their result. Its very unlikely to get a 2 or more goal win and have 70% possession unless you are a top tier team as the intensity drops off.

 

The Palace game we scored in the 95th minute.

 

If anyone remember that fucking Fulham game - It was the most underserved 4-1 loss I've ever seen.

 

That's the point of showing those games, Howe wants to move to being a top tier team so it'll take time and transfer windows rather than changing the current system entirely based on form with the current squad.

[54]

 

[Nobody]

Thank fuck for that. Can't wait to have Isak, Callum, ASM and Bruno all fully fit and available. Basically the difference between a side struggling and one that could rip teams apart if it clicks. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, Nobody said:

Thank fuck for that. Can't wait to have Isak, Callum, ASM and Bruno all fully fit and available. Basically the difference between a side struggling and one that could rip teams apart if it clicks. 

Those four would add to a lot of teams. We’ve been so unlucky recently. 

[Miercoles]

I'd forgotten how much I love watching Wilson just make himself an absolute nuisance for the opposition keeper. Leno seems to be taking it better than most but it still cracks me up to see Wilson give him a little shoulder barge as he gets ready to throw the ball out 

[joeyt]

He's a proper streetwise striker, we're a different team when he plays.

 

Still no idea how he managed to miss that opened goal in the first mins mind

[Miercoles]

Yeah he is so good. I got so used to watching us play center forwards who aren't center forwards that I almost forgot what it looks like!

 

I think that was a trickier chance than it looked, had to go for the corner to get around the traffic, should have scored though yeah. His curler looked real fucking close too, could easily have had a hat trick already.

[TRon]

He looked gutted to be hauled off like, he was probably fancying a hattrick if Eddie had allowed him the full 90.

[RodneyCisse]

He’s one of the best in the league.

[MrRaspberryJam]

I love him. I love him so, so much. 

[HaydnNUFC]

We have far more of a cutting edge when he plays and it showed today and at the back end of last season/start of this season. Before we took him off to keep him for next week I fancied us to get 6 or more, looked far more blunt after he went off. He's quality, if only he wasn't made of glass.