Joe Willock has not trained yet but is making 'good progress' (Howe)

[The College Dropout]

11 minutes ago, 80 said:

Great stats. He's been a massive miss. We should be working to make ourselves less reliant upon him, though, either through tactics or personnel.

We didn’t really sign personnel to do that. 
 

Take Tonali. I don’t think he offers a different way of play. It’s still hard running. 
 

The RW we sign could be a game changer.  If it’s an Mbeumo type - it’s more of the same but better style wise. 
 

think what we’ve learnt is the 22/23 relationships on the field was truly special and not something that is easily coached or replicated with different (and more talented) personnel. 
 

We do need to find new recipes.  As good as Tino, Hall and Gordon have been at times, they don’t have the relationships others in the team do. 
 

As great as Hall can be on the ball. He doesn’t have the Schar to Joelinton move, Schar to ISAK’s feet move. That Joe combination play.  Trippier, Almiron, Longstaff triangle and movement. 
 

 

I’ve heard Neville and Cole talk about that Man U side they were both in.  Different era obviously- they always said the relationships came naturally.  Cole and Yorke didn’t talk on the pitch they just knew how to play instinctively.  I think modern coaching is more detailed than that but humans will always human.  

 

 

Edited November 5 by The College Dropout

[80]

7 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not really a reliance though right? He's just a top player who takes us to another dimension. Just insane to think how we'd have done last year if he was even fit for 1/2 of it. 

Well, my prediction is if he breaks down again this week, we'll be back to pretty much how we were - unless we try and take some lessons from it, like moving Bruno higher up the pitch, keeping Joelinton wide etc, which might mitigate it. But we still wouldn't have that energy and ball progression in the centre of the park, someone who naturally becomes a second central threat - he was our furthest forward player at the moment Gordon crossed on Saturday.

 

There's a good chance we'll end up as an offensive horseshoe again, spread around the perimeter of the opposing 18 yard box. So in that sense I think we're pretty reliant on having someone of his type - I'd say the closest we have to it in our squad is Gordon, who has played CM before, but isn't focused on it. Either that or strengthening another area so we don't need quite so much from the centre i.e. RW.

[80]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

think what we’ve learnt is the 22/23 relationships on the field was truly special and not something that is easily coached or replicated with different (and more talented) personnel. 

 

We do need to find new recipes.  As good as Tino, Hall and Gordon have been at times, they don’t have the relationships others in the team do. 

I think there's a lot in everything you said in your post. 

 

On a related note, I think having both Willock and Gordon fit creates an interesting situation. Not necessarily a bad one, but interesting as they've been in the same squad for nearly two years, but they've barely played together really.

 

Gordon came and made LW his own on merit while there happened to be zero competition, but I think both him and Willock require Joelinton alongside them to make their games work, so having them both playing in their natural positions isn't really an option. Obviously, Gordon on RW keeps things rosy for the time being.

 

Maybe that makes the case for signing a RW for the long term rather than immediate impact.

[jonny1403]

2 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

I've shared some stats in the last month or so about how we've declined over the last two seasons in things like shot/goal creating actions, take ons, progressive carries, etc. Looking at per 90 stats, Willock is:

• First in key passes (more than 1 per 90 more than anyone but Gordon)
• First in shot creating actions (more than 1 per 90 more than anyone)
• First in goal creating actions
• First in blocks and second in blocked passes (him and Longstaff way ahead of everyone)
• Third in successful take-ons (behind Bruno and Gordon)
• First in progressive carries (carrying the ball more than 10 yards towards goal)
  • Third in carries in the final third and second in carries into the penalty area
• Second in fouls committed (I don't think this is a bad thing)

The stats match the eyes - he brings another dimension to our play.

 

I'm not sure these stats are as strong as they first look given Willock has started four games all season...

[timeEd32]

52 minutes ago, jonny1403 said:

 

I'm not sure these stats are as strong as they first look given Willock has started four games all season...

 

It's a small sample, but for what these are I don't think it really matters. He may not end the season first in SCA/GCA or key passes, but he's going to be up there. I think they are indicative of what he brings to the team.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, 80 said:

I think there's a lot in everything you said in your post. 

 

On a related note, I think having both Willock and Gordon fit creates an interesting situation. Not necessarily a bad one, but interesting as they've been in the same squad for nearly two years, but they've barely played together really.

 

Gordon came and made LW his own on merit while there happened to be zero competition, but I think both him and Willock require Joelinton alongside them to make their games work, so having them both playing in their natural positions isn't really an option. Obviously, Gordon on RW keeps things rosy for the time being.

 

Maybe that makes the case for signing a RW for the long term rather than immediate impact.

As good as Gordon has been, he doesn’t have great relationships with other players. I think Burn suffered without both Joe’s.  

 

That’s partly why people are more keen to move Gordon around because wherever he plays - he’s bringing himself.  Where Joe’s are best together. Bruno plays best alongside Longstaff etc. 

[BermyToon]

Wasn't he our best player in the cup tie against Forest earlier in the season? Needs to start this weekend at Forest again.

[Ronaldo]

Scored and got taken off injured in the first half.

[Ronson333]

Cracking 60 odd minutes, played brilliantly.

[Dokko]

Missing piece. Howe doing right by him in terms of minutes. Just need those kind of appearances to wear down the opposition. 

[Myleftboot]

Unlucky to be taken off.

[nufc123]

Not ready for a full game, but hes back.

[Elliottman]

23 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

Unlucky to be taken off.

Not really, been out a long time, we need to look after him. He was excellent first first half, looked like his old self. 

[Pilko]

Great performance today. Hope he stays healthy 

[PauloGeordio]

He seems to have confidence in his body again. Big miss for us. Glad he's getting back to his old self.

[Kid Icarus]

Played really well again, as did Tonali when he came on. 

[TRon]

Our balance has looked so much better since he's come back in the side.

[Ronson333]

He and big Joe are lethal on that left side, Carragher on commentary had it spot on when he said Forest were confused who to mark because they were interchanging so much.

[PauloGeordio]

Willockino is back baby!

[Cronky]

I would like to officially change my opinion of this player. Defensively I had thought he was a weak link and that he wasn't strong enough under physical pressure. 

 

Maybe there's been a change in his fitness level, but either way, I take it all back.

[samptime29]

It also works because of Hall. We had the ball loads where Hall was moving forward and big joe and willock are ahead of him to left. We get into good crossing positions with 1-2-1's and our movement looks strong there.

[The College Dropout]

It still looked good with Gordon out there.  
 

Gordon is a bit of a weird player in terms of relationships with others.   I don’t think he has a great relationship with anyone. But he himself is a danger at all times. 
 

We look best as a team with Willock in the side undoubtedly 

[TRon]

13 minutes ago, samptime29 said:

It also works because of Hall. We had the ball loads where Hall was moving forward and big joe and willock are ahead of him to left. We get into good crossing positions with 1-2-1's and our movement looks strong there.

 

Just goes to show that the game isn't about individuals, it's about how players combine and work with each other. Willock, Joelinton and Longstaff are no one's idea of a midfield combo, but together they are running teams ragged.

[Kanj]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It still looked good with Gordon out there.  
 

Gordon is a bit of a weird player in terms of relationships with others.   I don’t think he has a great relationship with anyone. But he himself is a danger at all times. 
 

We look best as a team with Willock in the side undoubtedly 

Gordon needs to look for that final pass a bit more imho. So many times he goes hero mode when a cut back may be the right answer. Regardless, bang on. 

[Newcastle Fan]

A fully fit and hungry Willock is one of the best midfielders in the league, they didn't have an answer to him today and deserved at least an assist for his efforts today.