Jackie Broon Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 So they are not following the process that is set out. Its clear the PL are trying to keep this in a sort of no mans land so they the consortium cant appeal (as a decision has not been made). However their process basically says, if information isn't provide then the PL has to decide on the information provided. Absolutely clear. The PL have been getting away with brushing this under the carpet, they are clearly not acting in accordance with their own rules. The vague calls for 'transparency' are easy for the PL to bat away and ignore, but this is something clear and unequivocal that the PL shouldn't be able to hide from. So why aren't any of the local journalists flagging this and pushing and pushing the PL to respond. There too busy regurgitating shit from twitter as its an easy living thats why! Exactly, the PL have been given far too much of an easy ride on this from journalists, supporters groups and MPs. What they have said about the process (not being able to make a decision until they've received a declaration from another entity) seems to have just been accepted without scrutiny or question. Anyone who actually takes the time to read through the rule on the O&D test could see that they've blatantly disregarded the proper process. True--the PL should have given the F.6 notice. Unfortunately, though, it wouldn't help the transaction go through, as the PL would very likely prevail on any appeal of that point (assuming KSA/MBS/etc. haven't given declarations). Maybe, but it would be better than the limbo we're in. Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. There must be a reason why the PL are so reluctant to make a formal decision. We as supporters should be doing everything we can to make it as uncomfortable as possible for them to avoid making that decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheesy Beans Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the PL haven’t followed their own rules, they’d be wide open for legal action even without making a decision. They will have a loophole or something, there is no way it’d be as simple as is being made out on here. The only way this is resolved is if enough pressure (legal, Government, media, fan) is applied to the PL and they’re backed into a corner. There needs to be an organised campaign against them to get it resolved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the PL haven’t followed their own rules, they’d be wide open for legal action even without making a decision. They will have a loophole or something, there is no way it’d be as simple as is being made out on here. The only way this is resolved is if enough pressure (legal, Government, media, fan) is applied to the PL and they’re backed into a corner. There needs to be an organised campaign against them to get it resolved. Exactly step forward your friends at NUST who seem to have given up and gone on holiday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-more Mag Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/newcastle-united-fc-takeover-and-the-premier-leagues-owners-and-directors-test Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Holden Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? You doing much this weekend? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 So they are not following the process that is set out. Its clear the PL are trying to keep this in a sort of no mans land so they the consortium cant appeal (as a decision has not been made). However their process basically says, if information isn't provide then the PL has to decide on the information provided. Absolutely clear. The PL have been getting away with brushing this under the carpet, they are clearly not acting in accordance with their own rules. The vague calls for 'transparency' are easy for the PL to bat away and ignore, but this is something clear and unequivocal that the PL shouldn't be able to hide from. So why aren't any of the local journalists flagging this and pushing and pushing the PL to respond. There too busy regurgitating shit from twitter as its an easy living thats why! Exactly, the PL have been given far too much of an easy ride on this from journalists, supporters groups and MPs. What they have said about the process (not being able to make a decision until they've received a declaration from another entity) seems to have just been accepted without scrutiny or question. Anyone who actually takes the time to read through the rule on the O&D test could see that they've blatantly disregarded the proper process. True--the PL should have given the F.6 notice. Unfortunately, though, it wouldn't help the transaction go through, as the PL would very likely prevail on any appeal of that point (assuming KSA/MBS/etc. haven't given declarations). Maybe, but it would be better than the limbo we're in. Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. There must be a reason why the PL are so reluctant to make a formal decision. We as supporters should be doing everything we can to make it as uncomfortable as possible for them to avoid making that decision. Well, that's precisely why the PL are trying every trick in the book to get PIF to admit they are in fact the Saudi state. They know fine well that if they use the same criteria they did to pass Abu Dhabi City, then they would have to allow Newcastle to step up into the hallowed arena where the big boys play. Other clubs are lining up to poke Masters in the bum with pointy sticks to ensure that is not allowed to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheesy Beans Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the PL haven’t followed their own rules, they’d be wide open for legal action even without making a decision. They will have a loophole or something, there is no way it’d be as simple as is being made out on here. The only way this is resolved is if enough pressure (legal, Government, media, fan) is applied to the PL and they’re backed into a corner. There needs to be an organised campaign against them to get it resolved. Exactly step forward your friends at NUST who seem to have given up and gone on holiday. I’m completely out of order on that, apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you like a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? You'll get the links if you are prepared to offer an opinion as to why you think the PL haven't simply rejected it if it's as cut and dried as you say. I'm not disagreeing with you btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 So they are not following the process that is set out. Its clear the PL are trying to keep this in a sort of no mans land so they the consortium cant appeal (as a decision has not been made). However their process basically says, if information isn't provide then the PL has to decide on the information provided. Absolutely clear. The PL have been getting away with brushing this under the carpet, they are clearly not acting in accordance with their own rules. The vague calls for 'transparency' are easy for the PL to bat away and ignore, but this is something clear and unequivocal that the PL shouldn't be able to hide from. So why aren't any of the local journalists flagging this and pushing and pushing the PL to respond. There too busy regurgitating shit from twitter as its an easy living thats why! Exactly, the PL have been given far too much of an easy ride on this from journalists, supporters groups and MPs. What they have said about the process (not being able to make a decision until they've received a declaration from another entity) seems to have just been accepted without scrutiny or question. Anyone who actually takes the time to read through the rule on the O&D test could see that they've blatantly disregarded the proper process. True--the PL should have given the F.6 notice. Unfortunately, though, it wouldn't help the transaction go through, as the PL would very likely prevail on any appeal of that point (assuming KSA/MBS/etc. haven't given declarations). Maybe, but it would be better than the limbo we're in. Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. There must be a reason why the PL are so reluctant to make a formal decision. We as supporters should be doing everything we can to make it as uncomfortable as possible for them to avoid making that decision. I know by corperate law and on paper it may be true but that is one of those things I have a very hard time accepting when its the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia, its in the fucking name. It doesn't exist without the Saudi State so how the hell can any corporate bullshit classify them as separate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 I felt as though I'd almost got over this whole saga and accepted that football can take a flying fuck. And then this comes along and reminds me of what could've been and it's still as galling as the first time. Really quite sickening. Nevermind always next year's takeover stories lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Come on Ashley man, we need more petulant rants to keep this interesting. Hopefully he gets smashed tonight and comes out swinging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Mag Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Maybe a Giggs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the PL haven’t followed their own rules, they’d be wide open for legal action even without making a decision. They will have a loophole or something, there is no way it’d be as simple as is being made out on here. The only way this is resolved is if enough pressure (legal, Government, media, fan) is applied to the PL and they’re backed into a corner. There needs to be an organised campaign against them to get it resolved. Exactly step forward your friends at NUST who seem to have given up and gone on holiday. I’m completely out of order on that, apparently. Which one of you two was Godzilla on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/newcastle-united-fc-takeover-and-the-premier-leagues-owners-and-directors-test That is the NUST guy. But all he offers is: "∆ On 2 June 2020 Qatari- and Saudi- based lawyers provided confirmation to this author that KSA PIF is a separate legal entity." Which is a) a worthless and vague piece of information and b) tells us nothing about the independence of the PIF, which is the crux of the matter. No-one who wasn't under the pay or the influence of the Saudis would ever try and make the argument that the PIF is operationally independent of the government of KSA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the PL haven’t followed their own rules, they’d be wide open for legal action even without making a decision. They will have a loophole or something, there is no way it’d be as simple as is being made out on here. The only way this is resolved is if enough pressure (legal, Government, media, fan) is applied to the PL and they’re backed into a corner. There needs to be an organised campaign against them to get it resolved. There's no loophole as far as I can see, the process is really clearly drafted. Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? I can't be arsed to find all of the individual posts but heard a neat summary from a solicitor (whose partner is a barrister and, together with her, gave the same view in detail when the WTO report came out) https://twitter.com/RedRoseMichelle/status/1303807889019207680 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/newcastle-united-fc-takeover-and-the-premier-leagues-owners-and-directors-test That is the NUST guy. But all he offers is: "∆ On 2 June 2020 Qatari- and Saudi- based lawyers provided confirmation to this author that KSA PIF is a separate legal entity." Which is a) a worthless and vague piece of information and b) tells us nothing about the independence of the PIF, which is the crux of the matter. No-one who wasn't under the pay or the influence of the Saudis would ever try and make the argument that the PIF is operationally independent of the government of KSA. Do you have to hand, the information (from the Qatar and Saudi lawyers) that he did? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/newcastle-united-fc-takeover-and-the-premier-leagues-owners-and-directors-test That is the NUST guy. But all he offers is: "∆ On 2 June 2020 Qatari- and Saudi- based lawyers provided confirmation to this author that KSA PIF is a separate legal entity." Which is a) a worthless and vague piece of information and b) tells us nothing about the independence of the PIF, which is the crux of the matter. No-one who wasn't under the pay or the influence of the Saudis would ever try and make the argument that the PIF is operationally independent of the government of KSA. You have a different opinion Luke, fine. The PL has a different opinion, fine. What is not fine is the PL holding the club and supporters in limbo by point blank refusing to make a formal decision on that basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 I can't be arsed to find all of the individual posts but heard a neat summary from a solicitor (whose partner is a barrister and, together with her, gave the same view in detail when the WTO report came out) https://twitter.com/RedRoseMichelle/status/1303807889019207680 Oh. I'm astonished that she still has the cheek to be passing comment on this considering she and her melt boyfriend have embarassed themselves at every turn for the past 6 months. And I know I'm nutting a brick wall here but for the record, the WTO passed absolutely no comment on the relationship between the PIF and the government of KSA. So if someone is telling you otherwise (like this Shell clown), they're either consciously or unconsiously bullsitting you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awaymag Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/newcastle-united-fc-takeover-and-the-premier-leagues-owners-and-directors-test That is the NUST guy. But all he offers is: "∆ On 2 June 2020 Qatari- and Saudi- based lawyers provided confirmation to this author that KSA PIF is a separate legal entity." Which is a) a worthless and vague piece of information and b) tells us nothing about the independence of the PIF, which is the crux of the matter. No-one who wasn't under the pay or the influence of the Saudis would ever try and make the argument that the PIF is operationally independent of the government of KSA. But the WTO confirmed that they see PIF and KSA as legally separate entities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheesy Beans Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the PL haven’t followed their own rules, they’d be wide open for legal action even without making a decision. They will have a loophole or something, there is no way it’d be as simple as is being made out on here. The only way this is resolved is if enough pressure (legal, Government, media, fan) is applied to the PL and they’re backed into a corner. There needs to be an organised campaign against them to get it resolved. Exactly step forward your friends at NUST who seem to have given up and gone on holiday. I’m completely out of order on that, apparently. Which one of you two was Godzilla on here? Do you agree with their decision to call Masters ‘sincere’ and call off the protests which were gaining traction against the PL? Genuinely interested to hear the other thoughts. It’s a complete and utter cock up from my point of view. Is it not at all the same as when Rafa left? Asked for members to take action and united voices are better etc. etc. Then a total U-turn, refused any sort of protest and was trying to help the club flog tickets by January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 And I know I'm nutting a brick wall here I know the feeling. I'll try again though for the lolz. Genuine question. Why do you think the PL haven't simply rejected it if it's so cut and dry and the PIF and SA are the same entity ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-more Mag Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Why would they, we’ve had football law and even Qatari’s accept PIF are separate entity amongst others. The point being they should have right to appeal, and if it goes to CAS or high court the appeal will be based on the whole decision, not one aspect like the PL are trying to rail road them into. Maybe, but it would be better than the limbo we're in. Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. There must be a reason why the PL are so reluctant to make a formal decision. We as supporters should be doing everything we can to make it as uncomfortable as possible for them to avoid making that decision. We can assume PIF is a separate legal entity from KSA, but that does not necessarily mean KSA is not a Director. I guess I shouldn't say they'd "likely prevail" as there's information we don't know for sure. But, I think it's very likely that PIF would be a Parent Undertaking of the club, meaning that where the rules say "Club" you can read that as "PIF", such that a Director of PIF would be a Director of the Club, and I just don't see how you can say KSA is not a director of PIF. A.1.54 “Director” means any Person occupying the position of director of a Club whose particulars are registered or registrable under the provisions of section 162 of the Act and includes a shadow director, that is to say, a Person in accordance with whose directions or instructions the directors of the Club are accustomed to act, or a Person having Control over the Club, or a Person exercising the powers that are usually associated with the powers of a director of a company; A.1.48 "Control” means the power of a Person to exercise, or to be able to exercise or acquire, direct or indirect control over the policies, affairs and/or management of a Club, whether that power is constituted by rights or contracts (either separately or in combination) and having regard to the considerations of fact or law involved, and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, Control shall be deemed to include:(a)the power (whether directly or indirectly and whether by the ownership of share capital, by the possession of voting power, by contract or otherwise including without limitation by way of membership of any Concert Party) to appoint and/or remove all or such of the members of the board of directors of the Club as are able to cast a majority of the votes capable of being cast by the members of that board; and/or(b)the holding and/or possession of the beneficial interest in, and/or the ability to exercise the voting rights applicable to, Shares in the Club (whether directly, indirectly (by means of holding such interests in one or more other persons) or by contract including without limitation by way of membership of any Concert Party) which confer in aggregate on the holder(s) thereof 30 per cent or more of the total voting rights exercisable at general meetings of the Club.For the purposes of the above, any rights or powers of a Nominee for any Person or of an Associate of any Person or of a Connected Person to any Person shall be attributed to that Person; A.1.29. “Club” means an association football club in membership of the League and: ... (b) for the purposes of Rules A.1.48, A.1.54, A.1.186, and Sections F and H of these Rules (including any Forms prescribed therein) includes any Associated Undertaking, Fellow Subsidiary Undertaking, Group Undertaking, or Parent Undertaking of such Club; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-more Mag Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Also, every legal opinion I've seen on the matter has been that PIF are legally separate and independent from the Saudi state. The appeal process, whilst still a PL process, would at least have a legally qualified chairman. Can you link a few of these legal opinions? I know the guy the NUST hired to write to the Premier League attempted to make that argument, haven't seen any others? https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/newcastle-united-fc-takeover-and-the-premier-leagues-owners-and-directors-test That is the NUST guy. But all he offers is: "∆ On 2 June 2020 Qatari- and Saudi- based lawyers provided confirmation to this author that KSA PIF is a separate legal entity." Which is a) a worthless and vague piece of information and b) tells us nothing about the independence of the PIF, which is the crux of the matter. No-one who wasn't under the pay or the influence of the Saudis would ever try and make the argument that the PIF is operationally independent of the government of KSA. I'm not saying I agree with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 But the WTO confirmed that they see PIF and KSA as legally separate entities. No mate, they honestly didn't. They didn't even consider the question, it was completely irrelevant to the case they were presiding over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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