Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[Dr Jinx]

I can’t say this whole debacle has been in any way good for my mental health, being fixated on this good news that never happens, it takes it's toll.

 

The only people who have done well off this are the journalists. It’s given them a licence to stay relevant without having to do any actual journalism. I include Caulkin in this too.

[Thumbheed]

If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.

 

This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.

 

The main party in the consortium literally did say this.

 

So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.

 

Absolutely. It has been off since then.

 

Ashley’s statement and subsequent actions can be explained because he’s unhappy the deal is off. Why would he be fighting for a deal which is going ahead? He wouldn’t need to.

 

It may only be back on once multiple hurdles have been overcome - sadly none of them are even close.

 

Because he doesn't believe the test was carried out properly and feels it should have gone through? He even made direct reference to the fact PIF had provided information the EPL had requested. Those aren't the words of a man who believes this is dead.

 

Well actually, they are the words from a man who believes this is dead:

 

http://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/club-statement-1

 

Newcastle United can confirm that the Premier League has rejected a takeover bid made by PCP Capital Partners, the Reuben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia (PIF) based on its Owners and Directors test.

 

This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government.

 

The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them.

 

Mike Ashley understands fans’ frustrations and would like to reassure them that he has been fully committed to ensuring this takeover process reached completion as he felt it was in the best interests of the club. Mike continues to be fully supportive to Steve Bruce, the players and all the staff and wishes them well for the upcoming season.

 

AS carried out an interview where she informed us the deal was off.

PIF released a statement withdrawing their bid.

MA released the above statement advising the takeover had collapsed.

 

What more do you want/need?

 

Richard Masters himself denied they'd rejected the takeover, and the club subsequently pursued arbitration on the issue of whether the OD test applied appropriately. I'm no legal expert but if the case was for compensation, then I'm not sure why the club would be pursuing it, and not Ashley himself. It's his asset after all.

 

It's worth mentioning that AS also engaged fan action on the issues which we obliged. The Reuben brothers released a statement confirming they're "totally supportive" of a resurrection of the takeover and there has been plenty written about PIFs continued interest. These aren't the actions of people who no longer see the takeover as a viable option.

 

Your last part answers the original point. The Reubens are supportive of a ‘resurrection’. You don’t tend to need to resurrect something that is currently active. The deal is currently off. There is no deal.

 

There only would be a deal if multiple complex issues are resolved (in addition to the arbitration). All of which currently look unlikely.

 

Ahh, so you're arguing semantics. Then yes, I agree there is no official bid on the table that is awaiting approval, but it's my concrete belief that there will be should the clubs "compensation" claim be successful (and we don't get relegated).

 

As above - that’s not true or possible. There is much more to it then just the arbitration.

 

Based on what out of interest?

[duo]

Sometimes I wish this thread was locked until we heard something definitive. What use is it speculating over hypothetical technicalities for or against this deal?

 

 

I agree ☝️

[Hhtoon]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

[Fantail Breeze]

If it was off then why wouldn't AS say so? I can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't, she's not exactly shy about engaging the media and has done exactly that on a couple of occasions now.

 

This is on until someone significant says its off. It's as simple as that.

 

The main party in the consortium literally did say this.

 

So it's been off since that point in your eyes? If so then Ashley's statement and subsequent actions dont add up, furthermore there's enough out there to suggest PIF are still keen, even Luke Edwards accepted PIF were still on board. But further to my original point, we know how AS operates in these exact situations because she's been through them before so it makes no sense for us to believe she'd just slink off into the night without a single word being spoken.

 

Absolutely. It has been off since then.

 

Ashley’s statement and subsequent actions can be explained because he’s unhappy the deal is off. Why would he be fighting for a deal which is going ahead? He wouldn’t need to.

 

It may only be back on once multiple hurdles have been overcome - sadly none of them are even close.

 

Because he doesn't believe the test was carried out properly and feels it should have gone through? He even made direct reference to the fact PIF had provided information the EPL had requested. Those aren't the words of a man who believes this is dead.

 

Well actually, they are the words from a man who believes this is dead:

 

http://www.nufc.co.uk/news/latest-news/club-statement-1

 

Newcastle United can confirm that the Premier League has rejected a takeover bid made by PCP Capital Partners, the Reuben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia (PIF) based on its Owners and Directors test.

 

This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government.

 

The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them.

 

Mike Ashley understands fans’ frustrations and would like to reassure them that he has been fully committed to ensuring this takeover process reached completion as he felt it was in the best interests of the club. Mike continues to be fully supportive to Steve Bruce, the players and all the staff and wishes them well for the upcoming season.

 

AS carried out an interview where she informed us the deal was off.

PIF released a statement withdrawing their bid.

MA released the above statement advising the takeover had collapsed.

 

What more do you want/need?

 

Richard Masters himself denied they'd rejected the takeover, and the club subsequently pursued arbitration on the issue of whether the OD test applied appropriately. I'm no legal expert but if the case was for compensation, then I'm not sure why the club would be pursuing it, and not Ashley himself. It's his asset after all.

 

It's worth mentioning that AS also engaged fan action on the issues which we obliged. The Reuben brothers released a statement confirming they're "totally supportive" of a resurrection of the takeover and there has been plenty written about PIFs continued interest. These aren't the actions of people who no longer see the takeover as a viable option.

 

Your last part answers the original point. The Reubens are supportive of a ‘resurrection’. You don’t tend to need to resurrect something that is currently active. The deal is currently off. There is no deal.

 

There only would be a deal if multiple complex issues are resolved (in addition to the arbitration). All of which currently look unlikely.

 

Ahh, so you're arguing semantics. Then yes, I agree there is no official bid on the table that is awaiting approval, but it's my concrete belief that there will be should the clubs "compensation" claim be successful (and we don't get relegated).

 

As above - that’s not true or possible. There is much more to it then just the arbitration.

 

Based on what out of interest?

 

Sorry, I don’t get what you mean? In my post I meant my reply to Hhtoon outlined why it’s more than just arbitration.

 

If you are asking what I’m basing this knowledge on... A lot of my knowledge is based from speaking to QCs with understanding of the process (not this specific incident). I may have misinterpreted what they told me, but I’ve tried to explain it the best I can. I have also spoken with people who live in (but are not from) KSA. My voews are my own but with theirs shared with me too.

[Fantail Breeze]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

[Hhtoon]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

 

Sure, arbitration can't make that judgement itself but there has to be linked ramifications. Why don't the PL just formally reject the bid if its just about their own processes?

[Kanj]

Give it a fucking rest ffs.

 

Fantail Breeze[/member] i don’t know you man, but you’re beating a dead horse and it’s not getting anywhere.

[Fantail Breeze]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

 

Sure, arbitration can't make that judgement itself but there has to be linked ramifications. Why don't the PL just formally reject the bid if its just about their own processes?

 

Because then they have to justify it. Right now, they don’t and can pass the blame onto the consortium.

 

If they reject it without justification (in accordance to their own rules), it’d open the possibility to more/different proceedings.

 

Delay, delay, delay... In the hope it causes the consortium to pull out completely and never return, or the piracy issues are resolved. Whichever comes first.

[Hhtoon]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

 

Sure, arbitration can't make that judgement itself but there has to be linked ramifications. Why don't the PL just formally reject the bid if its just about their own processes?

 

Because then they have to justify it. Right now, they don’t and can pass the blame onto the consortium.

 

If they reject it without justification (in accordance to their own rules), it’d open the possibility to more/different proceedings.

 

Delay, delay, delay... In the hope it causes the consortium to pull out completely and never return, or the piracy issues are resolved. Whichever comes first.

 

If they felt they could justify it then they'd just reject it surely and as you said earlier, the consortium have already pulled out.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's as dead as some believe but we're a long way off either way and I'm certainly not gonna bet on the outcome 

[Jackie Broon]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

 

It seems to me that arbitration is far more likely to be used make a determination on the issue of PIF / the Saudi state than whether the PL has followed its process correctly.

 

The one thing we do know is that the PL’s only publicly stated issue is that they believe another ‘entity’ should be declared as a director and undergo the O&D test, and the consortium disagree. The whole purpose or arbitration is to settle disagreements such as that.

 

And it’s not about whether PIF are state backed, of course they are, it’s the state’s wealth fund; it’s about whether the state would be a shadow director of the club or would be taking control of the club.

 

If there is more to it than just that I think it’ll probably be around the whole legality of an owner’s and director’s test, whether the PL can lawfully impose a higher standard in relation to ownership and directorship of football clubs than is the case for any other company. De Marco has hinted at that in terms of restraint of trade being the big issue for this year in terms of sports law.

[nufcjb]

I like this thread. An absolute car crash.

[McCormick]

I think most people are overestimating the importance of this deal going through for PIF.

[Sho Time]

Not read the thread but I think based on Vision2030 this is a significant investment for them. There isn't another PL club that offers them the level of worldwide exposure that NUFC could.

[Wallsendmag]

Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of “new members” post December 2020....all on the negative side

 

Trolls, other clubs doofuses or just shitheads like good old boy Lukey

 

This patter is almost as tragic as ‘Mag’ on RTG.

 

If you want to read blind optimism, I’m reliably informed there is a thread for that.

 

Only registered on here 5 weeks ago. Already familiar with RTG. Hmm seems a bit strange like.

[Fantail Breeze]

Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of “new members” post December 2020....all on the negative side

 

Trolls, other clubs doofuses or just shitheads like good old boy Lukey

 

This patter is almost as tragic as ‘Mag’ on RTG.

 

If you want to read blind optimism, I’m reliably informed there is a thread for that.

 

Only registered on here 5 weeks ago. Already familiar with RTG. Hmm seems a bit strange like.

 

Is it illegal to read the forum before joining?

 

I’ve read the forum on and off for years, probably going back to the early days of Pardew. Some times I’ve read it almost daily, other times I’ve not looked at it in 6 months. I chose to sign up primarily to vent at the situation with Bruce.

 

I also read RTG frequently and have done prior to signing up. I also look on a Man Utd forum infrequently, Derby County and Liverpool. I have an account on one of them, and might join up on another. Hopefully that won’t cause you any distress

[Fantail Breeze]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

 

It seems to me that arbitration is far more likely to be used make a determination on the issue of PIF / the Saudi state than whether the PL has followed its process correctly.

 

The one thing we do know is that the PL’s only publicly stated issue is that they believe another ‘entity’ should be declared as a director and undergo the O&D test, and the consortium disagree. The whole purpose or arbitration is to settle disagreements such as that.

 

And it’s not about whether PIF are state backed, of course they are, it’s the state’s wealth fund; it’s about whether the state would be a shadow director of the club or would be taking control of the club.

 

If there is more to it than just that I think it’ll probably be around the whole legality of an owner’s and director’s test, whether the PL can lawfully impose a higher standard in relation to ownership and directorship of football clubs than is the case for any other company. De Marco has hinted at that in terms of restraint of trade being the big issue for this year in terms of sports law.

 

I’m not going to keep going on like a broken record, because that’ll just fill this thread up with my guff.

 

But as I’ve said numerous times, your first paragraph is wide of the mark. Hence why PIF rejected an arbitration offer during the O&D test. If memory serves me correct they said at the time arbitration is not possible without a decision being made by the PL.

 

As I said, it’s the PL’s intention to delay, delay and delay.

[RS]

The kicker was PIF stating “global uncertainty” for withdrawing the offer. That coincided with their change in direction in investment.

[Wallsendmag]

Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of “new members” post December 2020....all on the negative side

 

Trolls, other clubs doofuses or just shitheads like good old boy Lukey

 

This patter is almost as tragic as ‘Mag’ on RTG.

 

If you want to read blind optimism, I’m reliably informed there is a thread for that.

 

Only registered on here 5 weeks ago. Already familiar with RTG. Hmm seems a bit strange like.

 

Is it illegal to read the forum before joining?

 

I’ve read the forum on and off for years, probably going back to the early days of Pardew. Some times I’ve read it almost daily, other times I’ve not looked at it in 6 months. I chose to sign up primarily to vent at the situation with Bruce.

 

I also read RTG frequently and have done prior to signing up. I also look on a Man Utd forum infrequently, Derby County and Liverpool. I have an account on one of them, and might join up on another. Hopefully that won’t cause you any distress

 

No skin off my nose pal. Just seems a bit of a strange time to be attracting all these new users. In the middle of a huge slump, looking a good bet for relegation, everyone sick of Bruce, the takeover etc and these new posters all sign up to add their negativity to the fire. If I've got it wrong then my apologies but I don't think I have.

[Fantail Breeze]

I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city.

 

All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it.

 

Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM.

[Hhtoon]

Have to say that FB does have a reasoned discussion rather than being a WUM. Don't mind that all myself.

[Renrub]

I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city.

 

All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it.

 

Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM.

 

So you aren't a previous poster?

[gdm]

I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city.

 

All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it.

 

Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM.

 

That’s what annoys me slightly, post anything that’s in any way down on the takeover happening even if that is what appears to be most realistic and people get upset about it and accuse you of being a wum and being overly negative yet anyone can post any amount  of utter shite (in one case yesterday the exact same post in both takeover threads) but as long as it’s positive no one cares.

The majority on here want to feel positive about the takeover but the positive feeling and info just doesn’t appear to be there.

 

I think I saw someone saying it’s just going around in circles and it’s true apart from the club announcing it was going to arbitration there has literally been no other concrete news. Maybe it is time to just take a back seat and see how this relegation battle plays out first

[Jackie Broon]

I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened.

 

I copied and pasted the whole statement.

 

 

Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying.

 

NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point.

 

What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve?

Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are:

a. Lying and have had no contact?

b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers?

 

In either a or b, what is the motive?

 

I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse.

 

I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim.

 

Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is.

 

I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer.

 

As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant.

 

Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding).

 

Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action 

 

The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate.

The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination.

 

The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed.

 

No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential?

 

No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition.

 

As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid.

 

It seems to me that arbitration is far more likely to be used make a determination on the issue of PIF / the Saudi state than whether the PL has followed its process correctly.

 

The one thing we do know is that the PL’s only publicly stated issue is that they believe another ‘entity’ should be declared as a director and undergo the O&D test, and the consortium disagree. The whole purpose or arbitration is to settle disagreements such as that.

 

And it’s not about whether PIF are state backed, of course they are, it’s the state’s wealth fund; it’s about whether the state would be a shadow director of the club or would be taking control of the club.

 

If there is more to it than just that I think it’ll probably be around the whole legality of an owner’s and director’s test, whether the PL can lawfully impose a higher standard in relation to ownership and directorship of football clubs than is the case for any other company. De Marco has hinted at that in terms of restraint of trade being the big issue for this year in terms of sports law.

 

I’m not going to keep going on like a broken record, because that’ll just fill this thread up with my guff.

 

But as I’ve said numerous times, your first paragraph is wide of the mark. Hence why PIF rejected an arbitration offer during the O&D test. If memory serves me correct they said at the time arbitration is not possible without a decision being made by the PL.

 

As I said, it’s the PL’s intention to delay, delay and delay.

 

I may be wrong, I often am, but I don't think that's quite right.

 

We don't know exactly what happened but it seems like the consortium rejected the offer of going through the PL's arbitration process (which is set out in Section X of the PL Handbook) because they wanted a formal decision to be made instead (to be precise, written notice of disqualification under rule F.6. which would then allow an appeal to be made under Rules F.13-22).

 

There is nothing in the arbitration process set out in section X that would prevent that process from going ahead before a decision is made and no specific limitations on what can be considered by that process.

 

Also, I've seen supposedly ITK people say that it's not actually the PL's arbitration process that is being used now.

 

I agree that it's the PL's intention to delay, delay and delay until it goes away, and it looks like that has been very successful.

[gdm]

 

Zero chance of inter getting relegated