Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[Thumbheed]

1 hour ago, Fantail Breeze said:

You’ve got such an odd take on everything.

The takeover is currently off, PIF pulled out. That’s the definition of being off. And I do think it is is unlikely to go through, based on what we’ve heard to date.

I’m not sure what your point is. There is no ‘shameless transition’. 

What about those who have moved from ‘the takeover is happening’ to ‘it’s looking unlikely’. Have they had a shameless transition? Is it not possible for people to change their viewpoint based on the information in front of them?

The opposite is the problem. Some people are unwilling to change their viewpoints, even with overwhelming noise of the deal being in bother. I’d argue it’s more of an issue for those people, rather than those who are happy to assess what is in front of them.

I'll give a proper response to this post a wide berth if that's Ok, Fanny?

But perhaps you should let Mike know the takeovers off as he seems to think otherwise. 

 

 

[Tiresias]

No one really knows the odds of it getting revived just pulling out conjecture maybe it could but as a general rule of something was supposed to take a month or two and it hasn't happened after a year and there's a ton of complicated court cases to get through don't hold your breath. All these Twitter people stringing people along i am finding more and more objectionable. I really hope to be surprised but i very much doubt this is ever going to happen

[Fantail Breeze]

52 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

I'll give a proper response to this post a wide berth if that's Ok, Fanny?

But perhaps you should let Mike know the takeovers off as he seems to think otherwise. 

 

 

Standard haven’t got an answer so can’t give a proper response.

[Jackie Broon]

If there were no prospect of the deal being revived there would be absolutely no logical reason for the request for an injunction in the CAT case to change the PL's decision and there would be no reason to the club to go ahead with the arbitration.

[Mattoon]

Pretty foolish to pretend you know which way this will fall based on the rantings of people either side of the fence. It's their job to play down the other sides strengths and try and discredit them to the best of their ability. The only way we know one way or another is when the man in the middle making the decisions based on the evidence put before him decides which way it falls.

 

I don't begrudge anyone being positive or negative as some have to hold hope, some prefer to err on the side of caution to protect their mental health. The enormity of this proposition can't be more important to the fans.

 

What I can't stand is the righteous indignation and goading, name calling and ad hominem attacks. What's the point? You can be as assured as you want but none of us know until it happens. While there's still legs in this there is still hope and some people need to hang on to that because to them the opposite is not worth thinking about. Personally I'm still cautiously optimistic, if/when that rug gets pulled there's nothing left for me here. 

[LV]

4 hours ago, Joey Linton said:

Jacobs "leaks" stuff last night but Keith has been "revealing" stuff for weeks on the podcast.

In all seriousness, you'd be taken far more seriously if you just admitted that last night didn't go particularly well, rather than just swerving it. Jacobs and Keith were like night and day last night, very little point not just acknowledging that. 

That’s not true at all though is it. I watched and they weren’t like night and day at all. Both were quite annoying. 

[Guest HTT II]

19 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

Pretty foolish to pretend you know which way this will fall based on the rantings of people either side of the fence. It's their job to play down the other sides strengths and try and discredit them to the best of their ability. The only way we know one way or another is when the man in the middle making the decisions based on the evidence put before him decides which way it falls.

 

I don't begrudge anyone being positive or negative as some have to hold hope, some prefer to err on the side of caution to protect their mental health. The enormity of this proposition can't be more important to the fans.

 

What I can't stand is the righteous indignation and goading, name calling and ad hominem attacks. What's the point? You can be as assured as you want but none of us know until it happens. While there's still legs in this there is still hope and some people need to hang on to that because to them the opposite is not worth thinking about. Personally I'm still cautiously optimistic, if/when that rug gets pulled there's nothing left for me here. 

Well said and I’m still cautiously optimistic and the enormity you mentioned, goes further than just our club, but our city, region and future sporting culture which as witnessed when KK and SJH took over, completely changed everything. PIF would build a super state of the art academy for a start that would be the hub for generations and generations of kids and adults to provide the club and game with prospects, talent, potential and excellence in the field of the sport which will sustain the club competing at the very top far more than simply spending money or not spending money ever would, as we have found to our costly failures when we have spent big and when we haven’t. It’s all about the infrastructure and that’s what PIF guarantee and why I and we all should badly hope this happens and what is truly being denied to us which is our right. Winning isn’t, trophies isn’t, but we have a right to a football club that operates properly, at the best level possible off the field. 

[Beamish]

2 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

Simple really don’t read, I don’t give a shit whether people take me seriously or not. I voice my opinion take it or leave it.

Thing is though it's not even an opinion is it?

It's just blind faith without anything to back it up, that's what gets people's backs up.

[Jackie Broon]

It’s easy for someone like Jacobs to sound convincing when he’s talking about something that is actually very legally complex in terms of common sense unbound by that legal complexity.

PIF is the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, with MbS and other government ministers on the board so it must be under the ‘control’ of the state, obvious common sense. That argument sounds very convincing, however, it’s clearly not that simple. 

The very first section of the Santiago Principles (the international principles by which most sovereign wealth funs operate) deals with legal separation and that many SWF are established as having separate legal identities to the state and full capacity to act independently. It’s clearly well established the SWFs can be legally separate and autonomous from the state.

From what I can gather PIF, unusually for even a legally separate SWF, seems to have virtually nothing in the way of requirement to report back to government and since 2014 was granted the right to act completely independently.

But, MbS and other ministers are on the board right, so the state must actually be in control?

Well, ministers can have other interest and jobs. Although in this county ministers are expected to have that as their sole job, if they were director of a company that wouldn’t make it state controlled because it would be a separate role. Plenty of MPs are also company directors, that doesn’t mean those companies are state controlled.

The state is really in control of everything right? They could just legislate or instruct PIF to do what they want so they’re really in control. Well, in this country they wouldn’t be because Section 251 of the Companies Act 2006 excludes government ministers from being considered to be shadow directors in such circumstances.

I’m not arguing that we will definitely be successful in the arbitration, I might not be legally correct with the stuff above, just trying to make the point that it is very easy to make it sound a forgone conclusion taking in terms of common sense, but it is not that simple. 
 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Jackie Broon

[gdm]

4 hours ago, Alberto2005 said:

My point being I'm sick of you guys twisting everything to suit your own argument at every opportunity, no wonder nobody takes you or manorpark seriously. If you came out and said  'Look I think the takeover will happen because of X, Y, Z however I also understand the PL could a chance because of X, Y, Z' then people would have a little more respect for what you're saying.

But instead it's 'IT IS HAPPENING. WAIT. EVERYTHING POINTS TO A TAKEOVER. THE PL ARE FINISHED AND HAVE NO CASE'.

It's embarassing.

[Fantail Breeze]

2 minutes ago, POOT 2.0 said:

Putting these back-and-forward arguments aside, for one moment...

...what are people's thoughts on why the PL didn't just deny the takeover and instead left it hanging? I know they say they were waiting on a response from whoever. But there surely must be a reason they didn't just say 

nope? I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

I’d assume they left it open to evidence how much opportunity they tried to give the consortium to comply. No idea though.

I’m at the stage now where I’d quite like them to just do the deal and see if the PL have the bottle to disqualify us from the league  Especially after no punishment was handed out to the top 6.

[gdm]

 

Whitley is that you? Fuckin hell

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

I’m at the stage now where I’d quite like them to just do the deal and see if the PL have the bottle to disqualify us from the league  Especially after no punishment was handed out to the top 6.

Have thought that myself but sadly I guess we don't have anywhere near the same amount of leverage as that awful lot. 

[manorpark]

37 minutes ago, Beamish said:

It's just blind faith without anything to back it up, that's what gets people's backs up.

What a ridiculous statement, just 'made up' out of nothing but ignorance.

Whitley Mag understands the logic, and (in the same way that I do) is able to filter out the prejudice, naivety, and inferiority-complex thinking, that blights many on here.

The outcome of all this is obvious. Why so many choose not to see it is (I admit) COMPLETELY beyond me. 

 

[Fantail Breeze]

Just now, Yorkie said:

Have thought that myself but sadly I guess we don't have anywhere near the same amount of leverage as that awful lot. 

Would being disqualified from the league be a bad thing? Prevents us from having to watch Bruceball and gives us an easy way of not caring anymore  

 

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, Fantail Breeze said:

Would being disqualified from the league be a bad thing? Prevents us from having to watch Bruceball and gives us an easy way of not caring anymore  

 

Aye I'd take it, such is the state of things. Boot us down to League 2, fuck it. Test the Saudis' long-termism. 

[Guest HTT II]

5 minutes ago, POOT 2.0 said:

Putting these back-and-forward arguments aside, for one moment...

...what are people's thoughts on why the PL didn't just deny the takeover and instead left it hanging? I know they say they were waiting on a response from whoever. But there surely must be a reason they didn't just say 

nope? I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

From my understanding, they can only legally do that by proving KSA are not indeed separate from PIF which they have requested from them to do so, which they haven’t, but they haven’t proven that they are separate or rather the PL can’t prove they are not separate either so we are at a crossroads which the PL had hoped by not deciding either way, PIF would walk away and forget all about it which they kind of did by formally withdrawing their bid to buy the club, but they didn’t withdraw from the ODT which in reality remains open, just not ongoing.

The PL don’t want PIF owning NUFC because it worries who they are in bed with, Bein sports and the so called big six to name a few so any excuse they can use to stall this or keep it from happening has been and is and will be used.

Only now any decision they can/may get to make will be decided by the courts and based on actual law which they’d rather not happen, but it does free them from any ‘obligations’ to others pressuring them to block the takeover once and for all and also a recourse to appeal should a decision go against them, likewise the club of course.
 

The club, PIF, Ashley, KSA and whoever hope they will buckle and pass it out of court, but are prepared for the long game and will take it as far as it goes and leads which for everyone means, well, it’s now a waiting game, it happens or it doesn’t. we will know only when it either does or doesn’t and everything else in between is bumph. I think a compromise and deal will be agreed between all parties eventually and this time next millennium, there will be no more Sports Direct signs around SJP or Ashley as our owner. 
 

Me, in between now and then, when do Gateshead’s fixtures for next season come out?

 

[Joey Linton]

7 minutes ago, manorpark said:

What a ridiculous statement, just 'made up' out of nothing but ignorance.

Whitley Mag understands the logic, and (in the same way that I do) is able to filter out the prejudice, naivety, and inferiority-complex thinking, that blights many on here.

The outcome of all this is obvious. Why so many choose not to see it is (I admit) COMPLETELY beyond me. 

 

To be fair, Whitley doesn't even understand the difference between you're and your. 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

 

[Candi_Hills]

7 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Aye I'd take it, such is the state of things. Boot us down to League 2, fuck it. Test the Saudis' long-termism. 

It’d be fantastic. Siege mentality, fanbase bound together, 40k fans in division 4,  Saudi squillions. The only bad thing would be that the chosen 6 spend would spend the following years working out a way to have final say on any transfer in the league.

[Whitley mag]

50 minutes ago, Beamish said:

Thing is though it's not even an opinion is it?

It's just blind faith without anything to back it up, that's what gets people's backs up.

I’ve offered plenty of opinion over last 12 months to back up why I believe takeover will happen. I’m sensible enough to reappraise that if something significant happens to change that point of view. However, nothing in my opinion has happened yet to change my point of view this will eventually go through.

For clarity, I think arbitration will fall our way based on what the PL are requesting in relation to the state being named a director as being nothing more than a delaying tactic and completely unreasonable. The point in relation to what is deemed ‘control’ will come down to semantics and I think Saudi law will support them being separate. It’s worth noting that even Qatar accepted PIF is separate to the state and the football law also did an excellent article supporting this. On top of that we have Shaheed Fatima an expert in Middle East affairs to argue our case. I accept Beloff is a worry, however ultimately his decision will have to be supported with evidence so I’m not overly concerned.

Finally on arbitration if the PL we’re happy they we’re correct, they would have just rejected the deal as their rule book dictates. They weren’t offering arbitration out of the goodness of their hearts. By going this route they thought they could kick the can down the road and it would go away. They also believed it would keep it out of the courts as arbitration is difficult to appeal.

On anti competition I think  PBP and the ESL shows what shady dealings have gone on behind the scenes. The fact the top 6 have met 40 odd times separately with the PL board, know one can tell me our takeover wasn’t discussed. Way back last year I put up articles on here that showed Liverpool and Man U had used their position to reject Don Howe’s son being elected PL CEO and hand picked Masters for the job. Paranoia and embarrassing some claimed on here, why would the PL not want us competing to make it a top 7. Respected journalists including Henry Winter are all aware that Liverpool and Spurs amongst others heavily lobbied against our takeover. Richard Masters even met with Bein but it was denied our takeover was even discussed. I am of the firm belief that disclosure will out collective lobbying under the guise that the PL should block the takeover to protect the Bein contract. This as a leading QC has intimated is illegal and I firmly believe if the CAT case is given the go ahead, we may see a settlement reached. Legal precedent dictates a lot of these anti competition cases are settled out of the courtroom due to uncertainty in the defences position. 

A final and perhaps wild card scenario is that Bein is restored and everything including legal cases being dropped falls into place in Middle East. There is nothing in PL rule book to say the state can’t own a football club and if legal cases are dropped the PL will have nothing to fall back on legally in relation to piracy.

I’ve stated all these points previously I might add. 

[gdm]

56 minutes ago, manorpark said:

What a ridiculous statement, just 'made up' out of nothing but ignorance.

Whitley Mag understands the logic, and (in the same way that I do) is able to filter out the prejudice, naivety, and inferiority-complex thinking, that blights many on here.

The outcome of all this is obvious. Why so many choose not to see it is (I admit) COMPLETELY beyond me. 

 

You have absolutely no fuckin clue what’s going on. No one really does. It’s this attitude that pisses people off. 
 

like it or not the PL have a strong case with as just a shit hot legal team as de Marco etc and it’s a complex as fuck case that neither me or you or pretty much any one on here can begin to understand. That is why we are still here months and months down the line. 
 

give it a fuckin rest 

[Whitley mag]

1 minute ago, gdm said:

You have absolutely no fuckin clue what’s going on. No one really does. It’s this attitude that pisses people off. 
 

like it or not the PL have a strong case with as just a shit hot legal team as de Marco etc and it’s a complex as fuck case that neither me or you or pretty much any one on here can begin to understand. That is why we are still here months and months down the line. 
 

give it a fuckin rest 

I thought you’d had enough of this thread GDM, I’d hate to see you when fully engaged again.

[mouldy_uk]

[Whitley mag]

54 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

To be fair, Whitley doesn't even understand the difference between you're and your. 

To be fair Joey I’m still waiting for you to answer my question earlier. Go on put an opinion out there with some substance, instead of just trashing others and liking your mate Fanny’s posts.