PIF and RB Sports & Media

[timeEd32]

I'm glad we can't spend whatever we want because it would be ridiculous  - either luxury retirement home ridiculous (Ronaldo / Messi / Neymar / Benzema) or unfair ridiculous (Mbappe, Bellingham, Osimhen). But it's equally silly that we can't spend anything.

[gbandit]

Just now, timeEd32 said:

I'm glad we can't spend whatever we want because it would be ridiculous  - either luxury retirement home ridiculous (Ronaldo / Messi / Neymar / Benzema) or unfair ridiculous (Mbappe, Bellingham, Osimhen). But it's equally silly that we can't spend anything.

This is it like. I don’t want to trample our way to the top by just throwing money at it nonstop but being incredibly constrained feels ridiculous when the system is so broken and the people who have created it are the ones who’ve pulled the ladder up

[Decky]

Dunno like, I wouldn't mind seeing Mbappe, Bellingham and Osimhen lining up at SJP.  It would be unfair but what was fair about how Chelsea and Man City did it? Even Man United, fair enough their success is largely organic but what is fair about implementing rules to keep them there while preventing others from getting up there too? 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Decky

[et tu brute]

8 minutes ago, Decky said:

Dunno like, I wouldn't mind seeing Mbappe, Bellingham and Osimhen lining up at SJP.  It would be unfair but what was fair about how Chelsea and Man City did it? Even Man United, fair enough their success is largely organic but what is fair about implementing rules to keep them there while preventing others from getting up there too? 

 

 

 

I agree, but I couldn't give a fuck about any other clubs and only interested in one. I would like nothing better personally than the Saudis to be able to demonstrate their financial power and make us the top club for years to come. I will take equal delight in the fans of the so called big 6 crying constantly at the same time

 

 

Edited March 5 by et tu brute

[r0cafella]

Obviously all of these rules are being implemented with the sole aim of getting PIF out and making them sell and I think they might just work. 
 

We are either a legit investment for them or a sports washing vehicle it’s one or the other.  If we are the investment then it’s very difficult to grow an investment if you’re prohibited from investing (this is the case with football, owners are extremely limited into what they can invest). The prior capital infusions give us that boost but we are now knocking on the glass ceiling, and not to disparage anyone this post is objective in nature but why would any investor think they could break the ceiling given the restrictions? We don’t have a good youth set up (of course it’s improving now but it’s a very long term thing) our stadium and training facilities are behind the curve and we are totally hampered financially. 
 

Now if they view us as a sports washing vehicle I’d argue the key tenet of that would be success, and it’s the same issues we face as above we can’t be successful (win things) because we can’t compete on equal terms, we can’t compete on equal terms because the rules forbid it. 
 

So basically, if your PIF why are you bothering with this? You can get better returns elsewhere. 
 

TLDR imo it doesn’t make much sense for PIF to continue to hold us in the current market conditions. 

[manorpark]

5 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

 

So basically, if your PIF why are you bothering with this? You can get better returns elsewhere. 
 

TLDR imo it doesn’t make much sense for PIF to continue to hold us in the current market conditions. 

 

My understanding of the character and culture of PIF is very different to that.

 

They want to win, they are very intelligent and powerful and they 'intend' to win.

 

Whatever it takes - 'no more mister nice guy' or whatever - they will win through. I suspect they already see the EPL and the Cartel as an enemy, and what are enemies for? To be BEATEN, that is what they are for!

[Kimbo]

Someone has to buy Mbappe and Bellingham, whoever has money gets to do it. Fair doesn’t really come into it IMO. Fair would probably be the best players distributed more evenly, rather than all going to the same clubs decade after decade until the end of time.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, manorpark said:

 

My understanding of the character and culture of PIF is very different to that.

 

They want to win, they are very intelligent and powerful and they 'intend' to win.

 

Whatever it takes - 'no more mister nice guy' or whatever - they will win through. I suspect they already see the EPL and the Cartel as an enemy, and what are enemies for? To be BEATEN, that is what they are for!

I love the optimism, but let’s be real here. With all of the restrictions that have been put in place we will not be overtaking Man city, we leagues apart and any opportunity to catch up is being taken away  

 

I’ve been saying for sometime FFP will only get more restrictive and it does appear to be trending that way. It’s any I made my rather gloomy post, the market they bought into is already quite different. 

[McDog]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

I love the optimism, but let’s be real here. With all of the restrictions that have been put in place we will not be overtaking Man city, we leagues apart and any opportunity to catch up is being taken away  

 

I’ve been saying for sometime FFP will only get more restrictive and it does appear to be trending that way. It’s any I made my rather gloomy post, the market they bought into is already quite different. 

 

 

It does seem a little grim but they need to pull in the money everywhere they can. While they may not directly challenge FFP, I could see a serious challenge to FMV if they get fucked on something reasonable getting rejected and that could be the crack to pry open open the door.

[r0cafella]

39 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

It does seem a little grim but they need to pull in the money everywhere they can. While they may not directly challenge FFP, I could see a serious challenge to FMV if they get fucked on something reasonable getting rejected and that could be the crack to pry open open the door.

You’re right, that’s certainly possible and would make sense giving the LIV golf affair. I’m still not sure it’s worth the hassle for them though, and it’s obviously a dice role which they are playing slowly. 

[et tu brute]

58 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

You’re right, that’s certainly possible and would make sense giving the LIV golf affair. I’m still not sure it’s worth the hassle for them though, and it’s obviously a dice role which they are playing slowly. 

The Saudis don't know how to give up. You have already heard the Chairman fully state their intentions of being the number 1 club in the world. The discontenting voices regarding FFP or whatever it's called now are growing daily. It's only a matter of time before a legal challenge is forthcoming and I honestly think it will be from a number of clubs, when it happens. 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, et tu brute said:

The Saudis don't know how to give up. You have already heard the Chairman fully state their intentions of being the number 1 club in the world. The discontenting voices regarding FFP or whatever it's called now are growing daily. It's only a matter of time before a legal challenge is forthcoming and I honestly think it will be from a number of clubs, when it happens. 

He can state what he wants, it doesn’t really impact upon what I’ve posted. Unless he’s prepared to either break the rules or change them, neither of which look imminent. 
 

And again?what voices are discontenting? Last I checked the league had passed more stringent measures  

 

ultimately everyone can chip in with a voice but if they aren’t shareholders in the league they don’t actually get a real say and I’ve outlined a few times previously why the status quo is great for 80% of the league. 
 

to be successful, you need a path and I just don’t see our path to success, we might be able to compete for European spots but challenging for the league and being up there with the so called elite? I just don’t see how we can achieve it with the artificial constraints we are under. 

[Stifler]

Honestly, if push comes to shove the clubs will just vote for the ESL again, take the Premier League, and UEFA out of the equation.

No real fan wants it, but the longer they keep going on with FFP, the more it will happen.

[PauloGeordio]

3 hours ago, r0cafella said:

You’re right, that’s certainly possible and would make sense giving the LIV golf affair. I’m still not sure it’s worth the hassle for them though, and it’s obviously a dice role which they are playing slowly. 

Slow was the intention, yes if quicker great. But they said 2030, a slow build project. They are in for the long haul. They could have walked already yet didn’t. We are in so much of a better place. Let’s enjoy it. I hope I’m not wrong but I believe they’ll be patient whilst moving as quickly as possible. 
 

onwards and upwards 

[r0cafella]

14 minutes ago, PauloGeordio said:

Slow was the intention, yes if quicker great. But they said 2030, a slow build project. They are in for the long haul. They could have walked already yet didn’t. We are in so much of a better place. Let’s enjoy it. I hope I’m not wrong but I believe they’ll be patient whilst moving as quickly as possible. 
 

onwards and upwards 

I like yours and other posters optimism I really do but for me it collides with reality a circle which is difficult to square. 
 

If you can’t be successful you can’t increase your revenue, if you can’t increase your revenue your can’t be sustainable. This is the FFP reality and the ways around it are getting smaller and smaller. 

 

Again, I wouldn’t put too much stock in what people say but what they do, and I don’t see this circle being squared. 

[PauloGeordio]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

I like yours and other posters optimism I really do but for me it collides with reality a circle which is difficult to square. 
 

If you can’t be successful you can’t increase your revenue, if you can’t increase your revenue your can’t be sustainable. This is the FFP reality and the ways around it are getting smaller and smaller. 

 

Again, I wouldn’t put too much stock in what people say but what they do, and I don’t see this circle being squared. 

We’ll just have to see what unfolds. Got to  be better than Cashley’s shit show. Our foundations are being reinforced and our value is increasing. Big Joe signing soon. Happy daze 

[r0cafella]

And btw, if I’m off the mark please do let me know? Maybe I’m wrong and we can compete with 7th highest budget for major honours? Or maybe I’m being pessimistic and we can bridge that 400m revenue gap to city? I’d genuinely love to know how we get there. 

[PauloGeordio]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

And btw, if I’m off the mark please do let me know? Maybe I’m wrong and we can compete with 7th highest budget for major honours? Or maybe I’m being pessimistic and we can bridge that 400m revenue gap to city? I’d genuinely love to know how we get there. 

Me too but our owners believe there’s a way. Despite the challenges and hurdles that keep being created at will!

[FloydianMag]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

And btw, if I’m off the mark please do let me know? Maybe I’m wrong and we can compete with 7th highest budget for major honours? Or maybe I’m being pessimistic and we can bridge that 400m revenue gap to city? I’d genuinely love to know how we get there. 

Challenge FMV at least at a Competition Appeals Tribunal, it really is the only way.

[r0cafella]

Just now, FloydianMag said:

Challenge FMV at least at a Competition Appeals Tribunal, it really is the only way.

This is the only way I see as well, but I don’t see us doing it someone else might sure, but in reality I don’t think they will. Most likely candidates are forest and Villa imo. 
 

it won’t be us, and it won’t be city. 

[FloydianMag]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

This is the only way I see as well, but I don’t see us doing it someone else might sure, but in reality I don’t think they will. Most likely candidates are forest and Villa imo. 
 

it won’t be us, and it won’t be city. 

I wouldn’t be to sure, litigation doesn’t bother PIF, LIV Golf tells you that. 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, FloydianMag said:

I wouldn’t be to sure, litigation doesn’t bother PIF, LIV Golf tells you that. 

I can see why your drawing the parallel but I think they cases are different, the PGA/LIV GOLF is more the equivalent of them buying the whole premier league, to be very frank, the league doesn’t need us or the PIF yet we need the league. 
 

Also, all indications so far are we are going to abide by the rules as the club have stated a million times. 

[Keegans Export]

7 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Obviously all of these rules are being implemented with the sole aim of getting PIF out and making them sell and I think they might just work. 
 

We are either a legit investment for them or a sports washing vehicle it’s one or the other.  If we are the investment then it’s very difficult to grow an investment if you’re prohibited from investing (this is the case with football, owners are extremely limited into what they can invest). The prior capital infusions give us that boost but we are now knocking on the glass ceiling, and not to disparage anyone this post is objective in nature but why would any investor think they could break the ceiling given the restrictions? We don’t have a good youth set up (of course it’s improving now but it’s a very long term thing) our stadium and training facilities are behind the curve and we are totally hampered financially. 
 

Now if they view us as a sports washing vehicle I’d argue the key tenet of that would be success, and it’s the same issues we face as above we can’t be successful (win things) because we can’t compete on equal terms, we can’t compete on equal terms because the rules forbid it. 
 

So basically, if your PIF why are you bothering with this? You can get better returns elsewhere. 
 

TLDR imo it doesn’t make much sense for PIF to continue to hold us in the current market conditions. 

If we are a legitimate investment then we don't have to catch Man City for the value of the club to increase long-term. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what we do with the stadium. I can't see any way we can stay at SJP and renovate to the point that we have a world-class stadium.

[r0cafella]

4 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

If we are a legitimate investment then we don't have to catch Man City for the value of the club to increase long-term. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what we do with the stadium. I can't see any way we can stay at SJP and renovate to the point that we have a world-class stadium.

You are absolutely right we don’t, but then it makes what we were told a lie. And even then, if they want the club to be increase in value it will need to have a modicum of success, if not other clubs may look like better deals. 
 

and I echo your sentiment on the stadium, but it seems staying at Sjp is the majorities favourite option so in that regard you can say we are holding ourselves back. 

 

 

Edited March 6 by r0cafella

[manorpark]

8 hours ago, r0cafella said:

I love the optimism, but let’s be real here.

 

There is no (what you call) 'optimism' in my post at all !!!

 

There is a huge tendency amongst some people to only think "the way things are now" is basically the way things will always be. THAT completely limits what can happen, in peoples minds.

 

With the right people involved, and we have the right people involved, how things are now can soon become a relic of a long forgotten past.