Dokko Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 18 minutes ago, TRon said: I imagine the Staveley WhatsApp leaks were released as a veiled warning that there can be more obstacles raised if PIF get too ahead of themselves. Can't even manage their league and sponsors nevermind trying to take an asset off a kingdom our own is in bed with. Good luck masters and PL. You shoot at the king, you better not miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 15 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: It would probably be more sensible for us to submit them to the PL for approval, which would put the PL in a very difficult situation of being potentially liable to pay us damages if they refuse or delay them. Don't think we have or will though by the sounds of it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Just now, jack j said: Don't think we have or will though by the sounds of it? It's not something that would be likely to be made public, we'd be daft not to be throwing in as many sponsorship deals as possible for approval right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 7 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: It's not something that would be likely to be made public, we'd be daft not to be throwing in as many sponsorship deals as possible for approval right now. Aye Will be quite telling if we haven't though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 minute ago, jack j said: Aye Will be quite telling if we haven't though Aye waiting for the stadium announcement that will tell me what I need to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAK Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, TRon said: If it was unimportant, why would they have jumped through hoops to get the takeover done when the PL and most of English football itself was hostile to it? They even had to climb down and put aside their differences with Qatar over the Bein Sport wrangle which would have been anathema to them. If they just wanted a cold investment, a football club is hardly the most hard nosed decision. Even if it was for brand value for KSA, then they would want to be the biggest and the best to make it have the impact they were after. Just my feelings on the situation, would be the happiest person if I’m proven wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 hours ago, Keegans Export said: Why didn't Ratcliffe do that with his £1bn rather than buy part of Man Utd? Perhaps the Friedkin Group would be better off sticking their £500m in stocks instead? I don't think any of them will make a profit day-to-day but I assume they're hoping to have a considerably more valuable asset than they bought once it comes time to sell up. Otherwise what are all these American companies doing? They can't be accused of sportswashing. Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool are different propositions. They already have brand value, fanbase, academies and revenues. There’s loads of low hanging fruit for them. Im talking about clubs that need to be built like ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 hours ago, Menace said: 8-10% a year is considered a good return in the stock market. Ashley essentially bought us for £120m and sold us for £320m if you believe the figures. He also got plenty of free promo for his parent company. Not a mathematician by any means but this surely shows that owning a football club can be successful? I think they are banking on someone big to outbid Sky one day and tv rights to basically explode. City also sold 10% to a Chinese company for around 300M, so they're currently valued at around 3BN if you base it on this figure. Edit again: City sold 13% for 265 almost 10 years, so lord knows what they're actually valued at now. And Ashley didn’t invest. We’re talking about new stadium, new training facilities, youth development- best in class. The Etihad Campus cost £600m. How much money do you think they have spent off the books? Im not saying we can’t eventually become a decent investment. But it’s going to take a ton of money, will and commitment. I’ve not seen the will yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 20 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Aye waiting for the stadium announcement that will tell me what I need to know. The delays are not good indicators. But the new board member is. My best case scenario is PIF are just slow and risk-averse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool are different propositions. They already have brand value, fanbase, academies and revenues. There’s loads of low hanging fruit for them. Im talking about clubs that need to be built like ours. I only mentioned Ratcliffe because it's recent and I'd heard of him/Ineos. But you've got Everton going through a sale, Palace owned by a Private Equity fund, Bournemouth have an American Fortune 500 company behind them. Wolves, Ipswich, Fulham. They don't have the brand value, fanbase or revenue of any of the big boys (or us for that matter) but someone (or a group) with a lot of money decided to buy them. Why? Seeing as I don't think many of us could name the companies or individuals in question we can assume it isn't sportswashing so presumably people who are used to spending hundreds of millions of dollars on stuff have decided they could make money from those clubs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Will the Everton owners turn a significant profit? You can’t compare us to all the clubs happy just to be on the PL gravy train. Thats what Ashley was doing with us and he had leverage of brand and fanbase. The comparisons are Chelsea, City, Villa and Everton. Established PL clubs (City less so) trying to break into the footballing elite. IIRC Villa were purchased in the Champ as a distressed asset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 22 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: The delays are not good indicators. But the new board member is. My best case scenario is PIF are just slow and risk-averse. I'm not holding this delay against them or reading into it given the situation with Darren Eales, it's the prudent thing to put it on hold and let the new CEO device. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: Will the Everton owners turn a significant profit? You can’t compare us to all the clubs happy just to be on the PL gravy train. Thats what Ashley was doing with us and he had leverage of brand and fanbase. The comparisons are Chelsea, City, Villa and Everton. Established PL clubs (City less so) trying to break into the footballing elite. IIRC Villa were purchased in the Champ as a distressed asset. Also, you can't compare when Ashley bought to now. That's like buying bitcoin now and expecting it to increase in value like it did in the past. Unless PSR disappears I can't see any way our value significantly increases without massive front and back door investment, likely well beyond any increase in value. Edited October 23 by Jackie Broon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: Also, you can't compare when Ashley bought to now. That's like buying bitcoin now and expecting it to increase in value like it did in the past. Unless PSR disappears I can't see any way our value significantly increases without massive front and back door investment, likely well beyond any increase in value. I’m not certain about that. but if ROI is the primary purpose of their investment. Turning Newcastle into a footballing powerhouse is perhaps not the wisest allocation of funds and effort for PIF. I’m not convinced we have joined up thinking with PIF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 3 hours ago, The College Dropout said: And Ashley didn’t invest. We’re talking about new stadium, new training facilities, youth development- best in class. The Etihad Campus cost £600m. How much money do you think they have spent off the books? Im not saying we can’t eventually become a decent investment. But it’s going to take a ton of money, will and commitment. I’ve not seen the will yet. how long after the takeover didit start/finish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danswan Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 7 hours ago, Menace said: 8-10% a year is considered a good return in the stock market. Ashley essentially bought us for £120m and sold us for £320m if you believe the figures. He also got plenty of free promo for his parent company. Not a mathematician by any means but this surely shows that owning a football club can be successful? I think they are banking on someone big to outbid Sky one day and tv rights to basically explode. City also sold 10% to a Chinese company for around 300M, so they're currently valued at around 3BN if you base it on this figure. Edit again: City sold 13% for 265 almost 10 years, so lord knows what they're actually valued at now. £120m with 10% interest compounded over the 14 years Ashley was here returns £455m (if my maths can be relied on, which it can't) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 10 minutes ago, huss9 said: how long after the takeover didit start/finish? The takeover was September 2008, the Etihad Campus planning application was submitted September 2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) Going to say it here. If PIF really wanted a Man Utd, Liverpool, or Spurs, they could have got them. As we have seen in other sports, they have the money to throw around if they want it. Would one of those clubs cost £5bn or more? Sure, but if they wanted them, they would have paid that. You’re not going to buy NUFC, put in half a billion buying the club and getting players in over the first 3 years, then talk about a £1bn-£4bn stadium, a training ground that would cost a minimum of £100m, then everything else on top, to just say ‘You know what, I want to spend all that buying Man Utd’ in anyway. Fucking hell man, the idea doesn’t even get past the proposal of testing a theory. All this talk about it all because you have Miggy Mouse reporter there desperate for clicks, and to make Sky Sports think he’s a valuable asset for the back page paper talk section in the middle of the night. Edited October 23 by Stifler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 21 minutes ago, Stifler said: Going to say it here. If PIF really wanted a Man Utd, Liverpool, or Spurs, they could have got them. As we have seen in other sports, they have the money to throw around if they want it. Would one of those clubs cost £5bn or more? Sure, but if they wanted them, they would have paid that. You’re not going to buy NUFC, put in half a billion buying the clubs and getting players in over the first 3 years, then talk about a £1bn-£4bn stadium, a training ground that would cost a minimum of £100m, then everything else on top, to just say ‘You know what, I want to spend all that buying Man Utd’ in anyway. Fucking hell man, the idea doesn’t even past the proposal of testing a theory. All this talk about it all because you have Miggy Mouse reporter there desperate for clicks, and to make Sky Sports think he’s a valuable asset for the back page paper talk section in the middle of the night. What about the theory of the sunk cost fallacy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 1 hour ago, huss9 said: how long after the takeover didit start/finish? No idea. They did announce they were going multi-club after 3 years. 1 hour ago, Jackie Broon said: The takeover was September 2008, the Etihad Campus planning application was submitted September 2011. Ah brill. 3 years is a good amount of time to have no concrete plans about stadium man. I do not doubt that they will. But the slowness is not a good sign. Owners need to be aggressive in this game. They aren't doing that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Doom patrol on overtime again I see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: No idea. They did announce they were going multi-club after 3 years. Ah brill. 3 years is a good amount of time to have no concrete plans about stadium man. I do not doubt that they will. But the slowness is not a good sign. Owners need to be aggressive in this game. They aren't doing that. While all your points are valid the complexity of public feeling towards the stadium, the lack of options without compromise and the logistics when we don't own any other land do all stretch this out. Being chosen for a euros venue would also limit any movement where we are. Was also reported even if we stayed we would need to negotiate the lease length for the land with the council. While I want the information and in the end waiting may end up ramping up expectations only to feel disappointed in the end with what is proposed. I personally am happy they get their ducks in a row first than announce what they want or intend to do only to find out its not possible planning/logistically/cost or approval wise etc. So far the worse thing the club has done is say things like it's close and imminent. Taking a massive leap here it may well have been but good or bad new information may have come into play to change their plans and go down a new avenue first, thought impossible. I guess it's not that long to wait now if it is indeed early next year. Edited October 23 by nufcjmc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) Spurs wanted PIF to buy them they chose us, Man U and Liverpool were to expensive, they bought the biggest sleeping giant in British football for a song. If Man City can become one of the biggest clubs in the world we certainly can, it’ll be slower than we all hoped but the gap is bridgeable with clever minds. Edited October 23 by Whitley mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 6 hours ago, The College Dropout said: And Ashley didn’t invest. We’re talking about new stadium, new training facilities, youth development- best in class. The Etihad Campus cost £600m. How much money do you think they have spent off the books? Im not saying we can’t eventually become a decent investment. But it’s going to take a ton of money, will and commitment. I’ve not seen the will yet. Why would any owner invest huge money into making a club 6th in the league at best? If the PSR and FFP restrictions are changed or thrown out, allowing investment in the team to match the cartel teams, then we can ask legitimate questions about throwing big money into stadiums and city projects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) NUFC is an investment - to grow an investment you spend wisely, something which they are trying to do. Have mistakes been made? of course but there are many more positives than negatives Edited October 23 by duo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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