The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Kid Icarus]

Feel free to tell me to STFU, but my advice to everyone would be to accept that the club we support is owned by terrible, terrible people and to just accept that. You don't need to excuse yourself or justify supporting the club you've supported your entire life to anyone but yourself. You couldn't change the owners if you wanted to, if Newcastle fans couldn't be budged to boycott an owner they all universally loathed, they're not going to be budged to boycott owners that 97% of the fan base wanted.

 

If you start looking for hypocrisy everywhere you'll find it everywhere (because it is everywhere) and spend your time driving yourself crazy trying to show everyone the double standards - ever further grasping at straws to the point of outright excusing the owners of their wrongdoing. You're also playing the man and not the ball - just because there's hypocrisy doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Thicker skins and an acceptance of the situation imo, don't let yourself excuse things you know are barbaric, or start picking at genuine arguments from the likes of Amnesty International or Hatice Cengiz, not just because it's a shit thing to do, but also because it'll also drive you mental in the long run. We all know that the majority of fans of other clubs are completely full of shit, they all are, we all were with Man City. Club owners are exactly the same and it's all about them using whatever argument they have available to them to complain about how it's now harder for them to succeed. We won the blood money lottery and they didn't - that's basically the depth of their complaint and knowing that makes it easy to ignore them imo. NUFC isn't specifically disliked by fans or other club owners for any other reason, Amnesty International and the like aren't specifically picking on NUFC either, they do this stuff across the board and rightly so. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by kisearch

[Dokko]

6 minutes ago, kisearch said:

Feel free to tell me to STFU, but my advice to everyone would be to accept that the club we support is supported by terrible, terrible people and to just accept that. You don't need to excuse yourself or justify supporting the club you've supported your entire life to anyone but yourself. You couldn't change the owners if you wanted to, if Newcastle fans couldn't be budged to boycott an owner they all universally loathed, they're not going to be budged to boycott owners that 97% of the fan base wanted.

 

If you start looking for hypocrisy everywhere you'll find it everywhere (because it is everywhere) and spend your time driving yourself crazy trying to show everyone the double standards - ever further grasping at straws to the point of outright excusing the owners of their wrongdoing. You're also playing the man and not the ball - just because there's hypocrisy doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Thicker skins and an acceptance of the situation imo, don't let yourself excuse things you know are barbaric, or start picking at genuine arguments from the likes of Amnesty International or Hatice Cengiz, not just because it's a shit thing to do, but also because it'll also drive you mental in the long run. We all know that the majority of fans of other clubs are completely full of shit, they all are, we all were with Man City. Club owners are exactly the same and it's all about them using whatever argument they have available to them to complain about how it's now harder for them to succeed. We won the blood money lottery and they didn't - that's basically the depth of their complaint and knowing that makes it easy to ignore them imo. NUFC isn't specifically disliked by fans or other club owners for any other reason, Amnesty International and the like aren't specifically picking on NUFC either, they do this stuff across the board and rightly so. 

 

 

 

Really good post and where my head is at. 

[Awaymag]

11 minutes ago, kisearch said:

Feel free to tell me to STFU, but my advice to everyone would be to accept that the club we support is owned by terrible, terrible people and to just accept that. You don't need to excuse yourself or justify supporting the club you've supported your entire life to anyone but yourself. You couldn't change the owners if you wanted to, if Newcastle fans couldn't be budged to boycott an owner they all universally loathed, they're not going to be budged to boycott owners that 97% of the fan base wanted.

 

If you start looking for hypocrisy everywhere you'll find it everywhere (because it is everywhere) and spend your time driving yourself crazy trying to show everyone the double standards - ever further grasping at straws to the point of outright excusing the owners of their wrongdoing. You're also playing the man and not the ball - just because there's hypocrisy doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Thicker skins and an acceptance of the situation imo, don't let yourself excuse things you know are barbaric, or start picking at genuine arguments from the likes of Amnesty International or Hatice Cengiz, not just because it's a shit thing to do, but also because it'll also drive you mental in the long run. We all know that the majority of fans of other clubs are completely full of shit, they all are, we all were with Man City. Club owners are exactly the same and it's all about them using whatever argument they have available to them to complain about how it's now harder for them to succeed. We won the blood money lottery and they didn't - that's basically the depth of their complaint and knowing that makes it easy to ignore them imo. NUFC isn't specifically disliked by fans or other club owners for any other reason, Amnesty International and the like aren't specifically picking on NUFC either, they do this stuff across the board and rightly so. 

 

 

 

Agreed.  I see fans on twitter getting into lather and 20 -30 tweet threads back and forward.   For me I just dont reply to any tweets from other fans/MSM/etc.  It is absolutely futile and is what they want.   Im following Howe 'Its purely a football decision and that is all Im focused on'

[RealGoneKid]

Why stop at Howe ? If hacks are going to ask him questions on international politics / ethics etc then where does it end ? Should they ask ASM for his tuppence worth ? The youth team ? The tea lady ? 
 

[Happinesstan]

32 minutes ago, RealGoneKid said:

Why stop at Howe ? If hacks are going to ask him questions on international politics / ethics etc then where does it end ? Should they ask ASM for his tuppence worth ? The youth team ? The tea lady ? 
 

Nah. The question has been asked. Job done.

[gjohnson]

1 hour ago, kisearch said:

Feel free to tell me to STFU, but my advice to everyone would be to accept that the club we support is owned by terrible, terrible people and to just accept that. You don't need to excuse yourself or justify supporting the club you've supported your entire life to anyone but yourself. You couldn't change the owners if you wanted to, if Newcastle fans couldn't be budged to boycott an owner they all universally loathed, they're not going to be budged to boycott owners that 97% of the fan base wanted.

 

If you start looking for hypocrisy everywhere you'll find it everywhere (because it is everywhere) and spend your time driving yourself crazy trying to show everyone the double standards - ever further grasping at straws to the point of outright excusing the owners of their wrongdoing. You're also playing the man and not the ball - just because there's hypocrisy doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Thicker skins and an acceptance of the situation imo, don't let yourself excuse things you know are barbaric, or start picking at genuine arguments from the likes of Amnesty International or Hatice Cengiz, not just because it's a shit thing to do, but also because it'll also drive you mental in the long run. We all know that the majority of fans of other clubs are completely full of shit, they all are, we all were with Man City. Club owners are exactly the same and it's all about them using whatever argument they have available to them to complain about how it's now harder for them to succeed. We won the blood money lottery and they didn't - that's basically the depth of their complaint and knowing that makes it easy to ignore them imo. NUFC isn't specifically disliked by fans or other club owners for any other reason, Amnesty International and the like aren't specifically picking on NUFC either, they do this stuff across the board and rightly so. 

 

 

 

Superb post.

 

Would only add that we are just as full of shit as every other clubs set of fans too.  Despite dislikes of specific clubs, by and large our fan base is no different to any others really. If it was another club that PIF took on no doubt some of the louder mouths among us would be suddenly human rights experts.

 

Unpopular opinion this one, but Hatice Cengiz or her lawyers did use the publicity around our takeover to raise the profile of her grievance. Yes it was an absolute atrocity, but how many could genuinely say they'd paid any attention to it before it started stirring the Newcastle pot? (I know there's a few Guardian readers who probably know the ins and outs before but it wasn't a big story here before their interest in us) 

[Darth Crooks]

1 hour ago, kisearch said:

Feel free to tell me to STFU, but my advice to everyone would be to accept that the club we support is owned by terrible, terrible people and to just accept that. You don't need to excuse yourself or justify supporting the club you've supported your entire life to anyone but yourself. You couldn't change the owners if you wanted to, if Newcastle fans couldn't be budged to boycott an owner they all universally loathed, they're not going to be budged to boycott owners that 97% of the fan base wanted.

 

If you start looking for hypocrisy everywhere you'll find it everywhere (because it is everywhere) and spend your time driving yourself crazy trying to show everyone the double standards - ever further grasping at straws to the point of outright excusing the owners of their wrongdoing. You're also playing the man and not the ball - just because there's hypocrisy doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Thicker skins and an acceptance of the situation imo, don't let yourself excuse things you know are barbaric, or start picking at genuine arguments from the likes of Amnesty International or Hatice Cengiz, not just because it's a shit thing to do, but also because it'll also drive you mental in the long run. We all know that the majority of fans of other clubs are completely full of shit, they all are, we all were with Man City. Club owners are exactly the same and it's all about them using whatever argument they have available to them to complain about how it's now harder for them to succeed. We won the blood money lottery and they didn't - that's basically the depth of their complaint and knowing that makes it easy to ignore them imo. NUFC isn't specifically disliked by fans or other club owners for any other reason, Amnesty International and the like aren't specifically picking on NUFC either, they do this stuff across the board and rightly so. 

 

 

 

I agree STFU. Seriously though, I'm all up for having the debate tbh with whoever wants to ask and they'll find I'll agree on plenty they have to say. If you're going to do it though let's have it done properly - you'll need to look at a ME/Arab/Russian property market in the capital, football clubs and the entire UK economy required to navel gaze if you're going start with football fan/pros as moral arbiters. Is this because they know people higher uup truly don't give a shit so don't bother asking? 

[Darth Crooks]

3 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Superb post.

 

Would only add that we are just as full of shit as every other clubs set of fans too.  Despite dislikes of specific clubs, by and large our fan base is no different to any others really. If it was another club that PIF took on no doubt some of the louder mouths among us would be suddenly human rights experts.

 

Unpopular opinion this one, but Hatice Cengiz or her lawyers did use the publicity around our takeover to raise the profile of her grievance. Yes it was an absolute atrocity, but how many could genuinely say they'd paid any attention to it before it started stirring the Newcastle pot? (I know there's a few Guardian readers who probably know the ins and outs before but it wasn't a big story here before their interest in us) 

Is there a probelm with that per se? Why wouldn't you do that in her position?

[gjohnson]

Just now, Darth Crooks said:

Is there a probelm with that per se? Why wouldn't you do that in her position?

Not as such, it just seemed so opportunistic and vulture like and absolutely stunk of cash chasing lawyers.

 

Didn't hear of her or anyone else objecting to the upcoming Saudi GP, or when PIF spent half a billion buying shares in McLaren

[Happinesstan]

11 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Not as such, it just seemed so opportunistic and vulture like and absolutely stunk of cash chasing lawyers.

 

Didn't hear of her or anyone else objecting to the upcoming Saudi GP, or when PIF spent half a billion buying shares in McLaren

I'm happy to give her a pass for not being too actively involved prior to her fella getting butchered.

[Bompeter]

16 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Not as such, it just seemed so opportunistic and vulture like and absolutely stunk of cash chasing lawyers.

 

Didn't hear of her or anyone else objecting to the upcoming Saudi GP, or when PIF spent half a billion buying shares in McLaren

 

so what's your argument here? that she has a specific grudge against NUFC as opposed to Formula 1?

[gjohnson]

Just now, Bompeter said:

 

so what's your argument here? that she has a specific grudge against NUFC as opposed to Formula 1?

I have no argument. She is rightly protesting against a terrible crime, but it seems odd that she/her lawyers only made noise against our takeover but nothing against formula 1, which was a much larger investment, and gets a lot more viewers than any Newcastle match gets.

 

[Smal]

Honestly, before making these arguments just ask yourself why you're doing it. Calling out a woman - who's husband was cut into little pieces for criticising KSA - as a hypocrite is just not the right side of the argument. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Smal

[gjohnson]

Maybe some people should read the post properly before getting on their factually incorrect high horses.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Its not odd at all really, when you consider the organisation. The Saudi PIF purchased an organisation operating in the UK. With a UK residence and UK representation. ~
F1 is a world championships governed by the FIA which is headquartered in France. It has no real UK presence apart from the fact some teams work out of the UK, some drivers were born here and a track here is one of the ones used in the calendar. Yet you're expecting to hear their opposition to investment to the FIA governed world championships here in England, as much as you heard them opposing the takeover of an English institution? When the organisation is relevant to pretty much the entire globe?

 

It makes nothing but sense that we hear opposition to our takeover louder than opposition to RSA involvement in F1. Considering everything that needs considering. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[Kasper]

35 minutes ago, Smal said:

Honestly, before making these arguments just ask yourself why you're doing it. Calling out a woman - who's husband was cut into little pieces for criticising KSA - as a hypocrite is just not the right side of the argument. 

 

 

 

 

A million times this. 

[christ]

1 hour ago, Bompeter said:

 

so what's your argument here? that she has a specific grudge against NUFC as opposed to Formula 1?

She bloody loves motorsport.

 

I don’t even understand what the issue is around her. Interest groups have always used massive news stories to leverage publicity for their pet causes. It’s just she’s a person not an interest group and her pet cause is her husband being cut up into tiny little bits.

[Shearergol]

56 minutes ago, Smal said:

Honestly, before making these arguments just ask yourself why you're doing it. Calling out a woman - who's husband was cut into little pieces for criticising KSA - as a hypocrite is just not the right side of the argument. 

 

 

 

 

fiancé

 

*just being facetious btw.

 

[Happinesstan]

43 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Its not odd at all really, when you consider the organisation. The Saudi PIF purchased an organisation operating in the UK. With a UK residence and UK representation. ~
F1 is a world championships governed by the FIA which is headquartered in France. It has no real UK presence apart from the fact some teams work out of the UK, some drivers were born here and a track here is one of the ones used in the calendar. Yet you're expecting to hear their opposition to investment to the FIA governed world championships here in England, as much as you heard them opposing the takeover of an English institution? When the organisation is relevant to pretty much the entire globe?

 

It makes nothing but sense that we hear opposition to our takeover louder than opposition to RSA involvement in F1. Considering everything that needs considering. 

 

 

 

Does anybody ask Pep what he thinks about Barclay's actions? They sponsor our local sports facility which currently has a cattle fence to replace a gate that went missing.

[Khalidao]

As far as I know, Hatice Cengiz is not Jamal's wife. She claim that she's his fiancee and there are no official documents proving that. Either way, fact is, she's a Turkish supporter/lobbyist for Erdogan and the justice and development party. Erdogan has clearly capitalized on her friendship with Jamal after his death to target MBS.

 

What was/is still reported in the media is one side of the story published by Qatar's Al Jazeera network and its many subsidiaries in Europe and the US (including Middle East Eye based in London). Reading these stories, you have to factor the enmity between Qatar and Saudi, Erdogan and MBS.

 

I'm not condoning what happened to Jamal, but Hatice Cengiz should not be involved way more than his actual family.

[Happinesstan]

2 minutes ago, Khalidao said:

As far as I know, Hatice Cengiz is not Jamal's wife. She claim that she's his fiancee and there are no official documents proving that. Either way, fact is, she's a Turkish supporter/lobbyist for Erdogan and the justice and development party. Erdogan has clearly capitalized on her friendship with Jamal after his death to target MBS.

 

What was/is still reported in the media is one side of the story published by Qatar's Al Jazeera network and its many subsidiaries in Europe and the US (including Middle East Eye based in London). Reading these stories, you have to factor the enmity between Qatar and Saudi, Erdogan and MBS.

 

I'm not condoning what happened to Jamal, but Hatice Cengiz should not be involved way more than his actual family.

It might have been like a real life Romeo and Juliet. Without the mutual suicide, of course.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Happinesstan

[gjohnson]

2 hours ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Its not odd at all really, when you consider the organisation. The Saudi PIF purchased an organisation operating in the UK. With a UK residence and UK representation. ~
F1 is a world championships governed by the FIA which is headquartered in France. It has no real UK presence apart from the fact some teams work out of the UK, some drivers were born here and a track here is one of the ones used in the calendar. Yet you're expecting to hear their opposition to investment to the FIA governed world championships here in England, as much as you heard them opposing the takeover of an English institution? When the organisation is relevant to pretty much the entire globe?

 

It makes nothing but sense that we hear opposition to our takeover louder than opposition to RSA involvement in F1. Considering everything that needs considering. 

 

 

 

And McLaren are based where exactly?

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

12 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

And McLaren are based where exactly?

 

I mean, I did say there were teams that operate out of the UK if you read everything. Red Bull another. But what do you expect anyone opposing Saudi Investment in a World Championships such as F1 to do? Should they be outside the headquarters of every manufacturer in the UK? Manufacturers who have no say in who hosts races? Get a group round McLaren headquarters. And so by that extension should they also visit the manufacturers of all the other teams around the world? Or round the houses of any F1 driver that lives in the UK? Would make sense really. And then the homes of all the other drivers in all the the countries?

 

It's just ridiculous to say "well they aren't protesting against F1 as much". And it's really not fucking hard to see why it's ridiculous. It's just whataboutism and looking for an excuse to delegitimise their protesting. Which, again, isnt a good look. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[KaKa]

5 hours ago, kisearch said:

Feel free to tell me to STFU, but my advice to everyone would be to accept that the club we support is owned by terrible, terrible people and to just accept that. You don't need to excuse yourself or justify supporting the club you've supported your entire life to anyone but yourself. You couldn't change the owners if you wanted to, if Newcastle fans couldn't be budged to boycott an owner they all universally loathed, they're not going to be budged to boycott owners that 97% of the fan base wanted.

 

If you start looking for hypocrisy everywhere you'll find it everywhere (because it is everywhere) and spend your time driving yourself crazy trying to show everyone the double standards - ever further grasping at straws to the point of outright excusing the owners of their wrongdoing. You're also playing the man and not the ball - just because there's hypocrisy doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

Thicker skins and an acceptance of the situation imo, don't let yourself excuse things you know are barbaric, or start picking at genuine arguments from the likes of Amnesty International or Hatice Cengiz, not just because it's a shit thing to do, but also because it'll also drive you mental in the long run. We all know that the majority of fans of other clubs are completely full of shit, they all are, we all were with Man City. Club owners are exactly the same and it's all about them using whatever argument they have available to them to complain about how it's now harder for them to succeed. We won the blood money lottery and they didn't - that's basically the depth of their complaint and knowing that makes it easy to ignore them imo. NUFC isn't specifically disliked by fans or other club owners for any other reason, Amnesty International and the like aren't specifically picking on NUFC either, they do this stuff across the board and rightly so. 

 

 

 

 

As I've already stated before. Ask any fan that starts harping on about this, what they recommend you should do as a Newcastle United supporter and what they would do if Saudi bought out their team tomorrow, and see if you can interpret the beat boxing incoherence that starts tumbling out of their mouths.

[Stifler]

I wish people would just ignore it.

Those questions aren’t going to stop, at least not for a long time and you are never going to be able to win the argument. Just ignore it. You have people like that Keith lad on Twitter making 20 tweets a day pointing the finger elsewhere and trying to deflect blame.

It’s not our job to do that, we are football fans, not Human rights activists or politicians.