Kid Icarus Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, TRon said: No but it's considered strong enough as a form of proof to convict people of crimes. I suppose then you would have to use it matched to other evidence to come to a conclusion when it comes to dealing out capital punishment where proof would have to be watertight. Police can and do plant or tamper with evidence. I would say instead of imagining being a moors murder victims parent, imagine being innocent and your life hanging in the balance of whether the police can be trusted to be both competent and uncorrupt. Edited March 17, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: You would hope, but they don’t. Of course wrongful convocations are normal, that’s why you shouldn’t kill the people. Sorry to keep this going but on the subject of miscarriages of justice. Anyone read the latest court case with Chris Mullen, former Sunderland MP? Interesting situation as he was the one who got the Birmingham 6 pub bombings convictions overturned when every one thought it was clear as day that they carried out the bombings. All this time later and the Midlands police have taken him to court to get him to name the true perpetrators who confessed to carrying out the bombings. He's claiming the journalistic right to keep sources confidential. Difficult one to answer but I'd probably veer towards keeping the sources confidential. Without that in place then others may not come forward in future cases and could also be extended to other situations where people are forced to reveal their sources. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Can’t believe no one has posted the Hang the Peodo’s lads yet. Standards are slipping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Police can and do plant or tamper with evidence. I would say instead of imagining being a moors murder victims parent, imagine being innocent and your life hanging in the balance of whether the police can be trusted to be both competent and uncorrupt. Very valid point tbf, I wouldn't put my trust 100% in the courts or the police, at the end of the day they are just people like you and me, and they all have their own takes on what's right and wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, TRon said: No but it's considered strong enough as a form of proof to convict people of crimes. I suppose then you would have to use it matched to other evidence to come to a conclusion when it comes to dealing out capital punishment where proof would have to be watertight. So you have a system that relies not just on proving an act but also the intent. Proving somebody's mental state can be very tricky particularly when they are saying, yes I killed but it was manslaughter not murder. Couple that with a system that is reliant on human interpretation and you're a good way short of watertight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, JonBez comesock said: Who likes crisps ? PIF DON'T - Newspapers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Whilst I'm fully against capital punishment, there is an argument in some places that the risk of escape from custody is so great that the only way to protect the public is through the death penalty. I'm thinking somewhere such as Iraq, where thousands of dangerous prisoners have escaped. Not that this is any great justification, just making the point that whilst our prisons are secure, that can't be said for everywhere in the world. Although I don't think it applies to many places obviously Edited March 17, 2022 by Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 14 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: I'm well aware of what 'my' country is like, its history, its imperialism and am completely opposed to all of it. If I was criticising SA while excusing the UK, your posts would have a point, but as I'm not, they don't. My with commas now, is it? Few pages ago you were condemning a person's opinion using meanings of superiority in your language, that's associated with your culture and country. But now that it's about Britain's savagery, you distance yourself from it with a 'my'. Ok, fella. It doesn't matter if Kid Icarus condemns Britain's past or not, because Kid Icarus displayed a typical 'we're better than you' language - even though the same 'here' (where it's 'unacceptable') is GB - a country(s) that fucked up millions of lives.' Get lost, Kid Icarus, people from around the world hold Britain's savage past and present in the front of their mind - be careful before you tell them how great you are! 'Here' is great to live if you're a minority, yes, but the existence of a tolerant and prosperous society here will always be linked to Britain's past. Why the hell would we separate them? If you've condemned your country's past, at least be gracious in acknowledging GB's hideous past before you attack someone with your superiority language. (REMEMBER: a lot of people from around the world see the UK differently from the narrative that's shoved down our throat here. Remember!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, TRon said: The only part of that which personally gives me any pause is the morality of it. The history is past, innocent people will definitely have died due to faulty evidence, being stitched up and just the general clamour for vengeance in times gone by. But the faulty evidence and innocent victims would be fixed by DNA matching, and just making sure the proof of the crime is irrefutable which is a lot more achievable these days. But what I guess is the real sticking point is the morality of dishing out death as a punishment at all. That I can identify with, it does feel wrong. But is it much different to when we justify going to war and dropping bombs somewhere? Someone who hasn't watched Making a Murderer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 48 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: So you have a system that relies not just on proving an act but also the intent. Proving somebody's mental state can be very tricky particularly when they are saying, yes I killed but it was manslaughter not murder. Couple that with a system that is reliant on human interpretation and you're a good way short of watertight. This is the same for any crime, there is always a chance that with human error/bias a miscarriage could take place. But the world doesn't stop still, you have to prosecute criminals based on reasonable evidence, you can't just let everyone off under the premise it's not 100% foolproof evidence. So then we would come to the more serious crimes which carry the most severe sentences. I would imagine you would need rock solid evidence if you are going to execute someone, or even put them away for life. How do they address these questions in the US? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: Someone who hasn't watched Making a Murderer. Nope. Can't watch everything fella, you'd never have time for anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) The ultimate litmus test of being against the death penalty would be the killers of Lee Rigby where you can be certain of their guilt. I am against the death penalty but I wouldn't be in the least bit concerned if they were sentenced to death. Edited March 17, 2022 by macphisto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 An innocent man twice, and his nephew… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGoneKid Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 You should never give the state the power to execute people Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, HTT II said: An innocent man twice, and his nephew… Are you referring to Making A Murderer? Only reason I ask is that John Grisham wrote Innocent Man about a guy wrongly convicted and sent to death row. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, macphisto said: Are you referring to Making A Murderer? Aye! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, TRon said: Nope. Can't watch everything fella, you'd never have time for anything else. I'd recommend it, it's fascinating and terrifying, it would change your mind on the reliability of the justice system. Particularly in the US, but I imagine we have the same issues here with police deciding someone is guilty because it's convenient and twisting, or completely fabricating, the evidence to fit rather than actually trying to find the real perpetrator. Edited March 17, 2022 by Jackie Broon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, Jackie Broon said: I'd recommend it, it's fascinating and terrifying, it would change your mind on the reliability of the justice system. Particularly in the US, but I imagine we have the same issues here with police deciding some is guilty because its convenient and twisting, or completely fabricating, the evidence to fit rather than actually trying to find the real perpetrator. It’s a must watch, both series, that whole family was fucked over. The poor nephew as well… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, HTT II said: It’s a must watch, both series, that whole family was fucked over. The poor nephew as well… Yeah. The way you can tell what the judges are going to decide just by looking at them, nothing to do with the actual evidence, purely their political persuasion. America is fucked up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Jackie Broon said: I'd recommend it, it's fascinating and terrifying, it would change your mind on the reliability of the justice system. Particularly in the US, but I imagine we have the same issues here with police deciding some is guilty because its convenient and twisting, or completely fabricating, the evidence to fit rather than actually trying to find the real perpetrator. We’ve had a few, the Guildford Four and no way did them two men convicted of the Rettendon murders kill those 3 blokes in the Range Rover… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, HTT II said: Aye! Another recommending then! Innocent Man by John Grisham if you haven't read it. Edited March 17, 2022 by macphisto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, macphisto said: Another recommending then! Innocent Man by John Grisham if you haven't read it. I’ve seen the series! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 The Jinx is the pick of the lot imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: The Jinx is the pick of the lot imo. Aye that’s a good one and so is The Staircase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I'd rather see 1000 felons, however deviant, banged up for life if it meant 1 innocent party wasn't executed. Emotionally, I could easily see off nonces, rapists etc but the justice system doesnt and shouldnt be led by emotion. The US has a long record of innocent (usually men, usually black) being released from death row. We've a shit record as well never mind how many kids die whilst in custody. "political correctness" "cancel culture" "woke" "sportswashing" & "whataboutary" have been spoon-fed into the public domain, ironically, to subjugate discourse. Top and bottom of it all is our Gvt does considerable business with SA Inc the means to bombard Yemen. They ain't gonna flex anything. The Premier League have accepted the takeover. They ain't gonna flex anything either. As for Chelsea, these oligarchs have been buying London and tories for years. Having said that Gordon Brown was first to lay out the red carpet whilst the supposed "Putin apologist" Jeremy Corbyn was warning against allowing them and their money into the UK Football's fucked. The UK's fucked. All by Foriegn money. In short... "Toon, Toon" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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