Dembacha Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I don't think it is hard, it's only hard if you are vehemently opposed to capital punishment, not everyone will share that view and those that don't will have the opinion that it's fine and it doesn't concern them. Who says their view is wrong whilst yours is right? People who oppose the death penalty and who in my view are right to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kanji said: well you hopefully have a Justice system that protects mental disability defendants from death sentence. Wrongful convictions have been part and parcel of court systems across the globe from the beginning of time, sadly. Good luck with that. What would constitute a mental disability defendant? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: What about killing the wrong person because they’ve been convicted of something they didn’t do? Or killing someone with a mental disability which led them to commit a crime? The whole concept is abhorrent and serves no purpose except revenge. We shouldn’t have a justice system designed to deliver revenge. Revenge is a powerful reason though. If you were the parents of a child killed by the Moors murders, I could understand them wanting their killers hanged or whatever method they use. They would be thinking my girl or boy isn't going to get the chance for mercy, why should Ian Brady or Myra Hindley have it? Also have to consider that keeping prisoners in jail for life costs money, and we all pay for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dembacha said: People who oppose the death penalty and who in my view are right to do so. I have no issues with you having the view but this is about recognising not everyone will share that view A far removed example being gambling, I don't gamble (for religious reasons) and I think it ruins lives and provides little to no benefit but there will be people that completely disagree with me on that. Who then decides who is right in that situation? So when it comes to Capital Punishment different countries clearly have different views on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, HTT II said: I’m a true crime nerd and I forgot his name, but there was an executioner who has put many a bad person to death (in the US) saying it was like a death sentence to him. And you’re right me saying no to the death penalty doesn’t make me right over someone who says aye to the death penalty. You should check out The Last Executioner: Memoirs of Thailand's Last Prison Executioner who executed 55 prisoners. I'm trying to think about the end of the book as I read it some time ago. I don't think he had regrets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I don't think it is hard, it's only hard if you are vehemently opposed to capital punishment, not everyone will share that view and those that don't will have the opinion that it's fine and it doesn't concern them. Who says their view is wrong whilst yours is right? This is silly, you could make this vague "well there's arguments on both sides so let's all agree to disagree" about absolutely anything. Some people like to have sex with children and think it should be legal. I disagree with them on that. Who's right? Nobody knows so let's all just get along and accept both sides make a marvellous case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wullie said: This is silly, you could make this vague "well there's arguments on both sides so let's all agree to disagree" about absolutely anything. Some people like to have sex with children and think it should be legal. I disagree with them on that. Who's right? Nobody knows so let's all just get along and accept both sides make a marvellous case. I'm not saying we agree to disagree, just that a complete lack of understanding that other people will have a different position on certain subjects is not always helpful You've had to resort to an absolutely absurd example to highlight your point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I have no issues with you having the view but this is about recognising not everyone will share that view A far removed example being gambling, I don't gamble (for religious reasons) and I think it ruins lives and provides little to no benefit but there will be people that completely disagree with me on that. Who then decides who is right in that situation? So when it comes to Capital Punishment different countries clearly have different views on the subject. Absolutely, one which is wrong and the other which is by default right. Edited March 17, 2022 by Dembacha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Dembacha said: Absolutely, one which is right and the other which is by default wrong. In your opinion, a number of countries disagree with you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I'm not saying we agree to disagree, just that a complete lack of understanding that other people will have a different position on certain subjects is not always helpful You've had to resort to an absolutely absurd example to highlight your point Have I? I think defending (often) extrajudicial state-sanctioned murder is no less absurd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I'm not saying we agree to disagree, just that a complete lack of understanding that other people will have a different position on certain subjects is not always helpful You've had to resort to an absolutely absurd example to highlight your point Killing people as punishment for crimes isn't an absurd example in itself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Wullie said: Have I? I think defending (often) extrajudicial state-sanctioned murder is no less absurd. I disagree but this wasn't even the original point I was making I'm not here to defend capital punishment (more because the miscarriage of justice element), just that in principal I can see why others would be for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I don't care where you're from, Capital Punishment is not the answer regardless if it's beheading, injection, chair or hanging, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Killing people as punishment for crimes isn't an absurd example in itself? This conversation is going down a completely different angle to what I had intended but since it's been raised aye I do think sex with children is worse than capital punishment Again, I'm not in favour of capital punishment, just that I can understand why countries/people would in principle be for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, OCK said: I don't care where you're from, Capital Punishment is not the answer regardless if it's beheading, injection, chair or hanging, etc. Well you could make a case for it, all that money saved on looking after murderers for the rest of their lives could be put to better use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 58 minutes ago, UncleBingo said: This is always worth a watch on this subject.... Fucking hell, Pritti Patel is such an anhorrent piece of shit, isn't she? Just absolute human garbage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Chris_R said: Fucking hell, Pritti Patel is such an anhorrent piece of shit, isn't she? Just absolute human garbage. A pretty good argument in itself as to why capital punishment is grim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, TRon said: Well you could make a case for it, all that money saved on looking after murderers for the rest of their lives could be put to better use. It would be a pretty shit case to make though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBez comesock Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Who likes crisps ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: This conversation is going down a completely different angle to what I had intended but since it's been raised aye I do think sex with children is worse than capital punishment Again, I'm not in favour of capital punishment, just that I can understand why countries/people would in principle be for it. It's still an absurd example in the first place, which is what I was getting at, not really whether it's more or less absurd. I can understand why people would be for it, I know people who are for it. Unfortunately the reason I understand why these people are for it is because they either don't know or don't care about its history, its deliberate misuse, or its ineffectiveness. They just want what they view as justice and pay no mind to the morality of it, let alone the innocent people who'll be executed along the way. Edited March 17, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awaymag Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 It just aint football John! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Geordie Ahmed said: This conversation is going down a completely different angle to what I had intended but since it's been raised aye I do think sex with children is worse than capital punishment Again, I'm not in favour of capital punishment, just that I can understand why countries/people would in principle be for it. You're completely right about respecting different views when it comes to Capital Punishment. According to this article, 33 countries have used the death penalty since 2013 so we're not talking about only a few countries. It's really a question of whether the onus of a justice system is on rehabilitation or punishment. All legal systems contain elements of both, it's just a question of to what degree either way. Broadly speaking, based on the map in the article it's clear that most countries who retain capital punishment are either Asian or Islamic countries who have different philosophies to a lot of other countries. There's nothing wrong with respecting their views whilst strongly disagreeing with them at the same time. It's also worth noting that there is significant support for the death penalty in the UK so it's not as clear cut as many on here are making it out to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: It's still an absurd example in the first place, which is what I was getting at, not really whether it's more or less absurd. I can understand why people would be for it, I know people who are for it. Unfortunately the reason I understand why these people are for it is because they either don't know or don't care about its history, its deliberate misuse, or its ineffectiveness. They just want what they view as justice and pay no mind to the morality of it, let alone the innocent people who'll be executed along the way. Capital punishment was the discussion, not the example I used gambling as the example and then someone ludicrously brought in sex with children Anyhow, I completely agree with the second line onwards, it was essentially my point from the start. You understand their point, then hopefully educate them on why it's not logical or sensible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: It's still an absurd example in the first place, which is what I was getting at, not really whether it's more or less absurd. I can understand why people would be for it, I know people who are for it. Unfortunately the reason I understand why these people are for it is because they either don't know or don't care about its history, its deliberate misuse, or its ineffectiveness. They just want what they view as justice and pay no mind to the morality of it, let alone the innocent people who'll be executed along the way. I swear I just seen what you quoted and then read your reply thinking it was in relation to sex with minors. Then I read your last sentence, jesus I need to go back to bed. Really fucking threw me how openly you were talking about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: Capital punishment was the discussion, not the example I used gambling as the example and then someone ludicrously brought in sex with children Anyhow, I completely agree with the second line onwards, it was essentially my point from the start. You understand their point, then hopefully educate them on why it's not logical or sensible. I think the point Wullie was making is that people will argue for absurd things, but that doesn't mean we should listen to them or take their points seriously. Understanding them is a different matter so I think what you're saying is fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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