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The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread


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Just now, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Fairs. FWIW I disagree with Saudi flag waving, having 🇸🇦 on social media profiles, dressing up as sheikhs, it makes us look like we're championing a torrid regime. I'm unbelievably happy that Ashley has finally gone, and I'm happy that we're well and truly in the money, in spite of knowing where its coming from.

 

But Newcastle United is my club, always has been and always will be no matter who the owners are, and they can't take that away from me. People need to educate themselves and who these people owning the club now are, but I generally resent the idea of having to justify why I support the club I always have done.

I don’t think anybody is asking you to justify supporting the club are they? It’s fine. I hate this takeover but I’ll still be a Newcastle fan. It’s obviously an emotion I have no control over because I’d have binned it off ages ago otherwise :lol: 

 

Where it gets problematic is we have people in here (not you!) trying to justify the ethics of it (“well the UK government sells them arms so…” etc.). There is no ethical justification for this I’m afraid.

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Just now, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Fairs. FWIW I disagree with Saudi flag waving, having 🇸🇦 on social media profiles, dressing up as sheikhs, it makes us look like we're championing a torrid regime. I'm unbelievably happy that Ashley has finally gone, and I'm happy that we're well and truly in the money, in spite of knowing where its coming from.

 

But Newcastle United is my club, always has been and always will be no matter who the owners are, and they can't take that away from me. People need to educate themselves and who these people owning the club now are, but I generally resent the idea of having to justify why I support the club I always have done.


I don’t know if I resent it. I always felt I had to justify it to an extent. Maybe it’s a little different if you grow up in an area with several big clubs, or with none. Seems to me that Froggy gets asked to justify it all the time :lol:.

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37 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

I’d also like to ask people on here who were staunchly “I don’t want to be city, selling your soul, just buying up the best talent/ oil club” if they feel that way now it’s us?

 

I remember there being quite a lot of anti city rhetoric, and people not wanting to end up like them. PIF are talking about the plan but it will end up like City eventually. It’s the logical conclusion 

 

I've never been overly vocal about it with other clubs, but this applies to me to an extent.

 

Was probably more applicable to me when Abramovic bought Chelsea rather than Man City's takeover. I didn't want us to be a rich dude's plaything. Fwiw, I still don't, but the past 20 years have demonstrated it's not a fad that's going to go away and it's a case of if you can't beat em, join em.

 

I am in agreement with your comments in the other thread- if we could have Leicester type owners rather than Man City type then I'd take that. Winning two trophies earning them would mean more than hoying billions at winning twenty trophies. But what we've got is what we've got, lets see how it turns out but either way it'll be massively preferential to Ashley imo.

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I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes  - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. It's grim, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to be the red line all of a sudden. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to.

 

 

Edited by Inferior Acuña

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1 minute ago, Smal said:

I don’t think anybody is asking you to justify supporting the club are they? It’s fine. I hate this takeover but I’ll still be a Newcastle fan. It’s obviously an emotion I have no control over because I’d have binned it off ages ago otherwise :lol: 

 

Where it gets problematic is we have people in here (not you!) trying to justify the ethics of it (“well the UK government sells them arms so…” etc.). There is no ethical justification for this I’m afraid.

 

There's those out there who are of the idea that Newcastle fans should walk away from the club given these owners, which to me is mental. Just things I've seen online, sample size may well be small but just what I've seen.

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Just now, HaydnNUFC said:

 

There's those out there who are of the idea that Newcastle fans should walk away from the club given these owners, which to me is mental. Just things I've seen online, sample size may well be small but just what I've seen.

Fair enough. I think that’s too far on their part.

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4 minutes ago, leffe186 said:


I don’t know if I resent it. I always felt I had to justify it to an extent. Maybe it’s a little different if you grow up in an area with several big clubs, or with none. Seems to me that Froggy gets asked to justify it all the time :lol:.

 

I mean in regards to us and these owners. Being implored to walk away from or limit support for your club you've supported for years because of who owns it by people from outside the region or fanbase. 

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3 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes  - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. It's grim, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to be the red line all of a sudden. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to.

 

 

 

Fail to see why you should have to justify yourself to anyone or why it in anyway impinges on your 'moral purity'.

 

We don't get the choice to change teams, for most it's an accident of birth. The politics of the owner(s) is an absolute irrelevance for the most part. 

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to say I'm fairly conflicted on this would be putting it mildly, fact is as unpleasant a person and bad an owner Ashley is and was he pales into insignificance in comparison to the current regime in Saudi Arabia. They are probably the most evil regime on Earth right now tbh or at least in the conversation for it and to have NUFC associated with them is troubling to say the least. Now this goes well beyond football as the fact that most Western Democracy's buddy up to KSA and sell them weapons they use vs Yemen is disgusting. Quite how its permitted for the likes of them (or any state) to buy a football club in the first place is beyond me and quite how the Premier League have come to the conclusion that the Saudi state will have no influence on PIF or the running of NUFC is an impressive piece of mental gymnastics. 

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8 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes  - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. It's grim, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to be the red line all of a sudden. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to.

 

 

 

Sometimes you have to dance with the devil. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good and deal with whatever bullshit that comes along on its own terms. You and you alone are responsible for whether or not you go full on Man City Qatar apologist. We are beyond good and evil. If they do something horrendous, do what you need to do and call it out. 

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6 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes  - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to.


It’s hard, man. There’s the added complication of having to sort out “football banter” from proper criticism. We all carry some views that are contradictory or at least morally ambiguous. The old chestnut - we all detest gloryhunters but we mostly love people who chose to follow our team from another country, or whatever.

 

I wouldn’t say I’m jealous of those people, but I might say I’m a bit scared of them. Moral certainty in a large number of people can be dangerous.

 

There’s a doc at work who’s a big Barca fan (pretty much the only other football “fan” at work). I had great fun bantering with him. When I decided to fuck football off my heart went out of it :lol:. I genuinely miss doing that, and I know I could properly slip back into it, but I also know that wouldn’t be honest.

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My thoughts which I posted in another thread…

 

I see the argument that NUFC fans supporting NUFC under PIF is basically supporting a murderous regime too, yet the legacy clubs fans can still support their clubs despite their clubs actively and wantingly trying to destroy not just the game in this country, but the game in general all around the world. They can all fuck off, sour grapes.
 

I’m concerned about who we are owned about and honestly, I’m not fussed about going to games ever again, I’ll happily be an armchair fan watching and cheering on the team via TV and maybe, just maybe I’ll take the boys to the odd cup game, but for me I’m happy first of all that Ashley is gone (this is the victory) and secondly as bad as the SA regime is, this is their culture and has been for however long and it’s not up to me nor down to me to say hey, you can’t be doing that.

 

Of course I don’t want to see people beheaded, gay people tortured, women have no rights etc. but they look at ‘us’ and don’t want us drinking, don’t want us being topless or whatever. It’s a clash of cultures and customs and religions and other shit. If we want SA to stop being a bad egg, it’s down to our government to say NO, we won’t deal with you unless you do x y and z and it’s upto companies like like FB, Starbucks or whoever to say NO you can’t buy a stake unless you do x y and z too.
 

But that hasn’t, won’t and never will happen because it’s all about money/ It’s not down to NUFC fans, or me or you or any individual  to say, sorry, you can’t come and buy our club unless you stop murdering journos or whatever. As AS said, it’s our club, they are just custodians. That’s my take, it’s always been our club and always will be because without the fans there is no club, just a few trade marks, player registrations and a fucking post code where some business is registered to.

 

We also have to remember, the middle east are behind the western world in lots of ways and as much as we would like them to catch up ASAP, that again is not how the dynamics of the world works. In the 60s in America black boys and girls couldn’t go to white schools, or could eat in a restaurant or get a bus with white people. In the 40s, 6m Jews and others were murdered by the German state. We waged war in Iraq on lies. It wasn’t that long ago we would behead people here in England, hang them, torture them. Indeed our own stadium is built on the Gallows…

 

Don’t throw stones in a glass house…

 

It’s s good to have this discussion because it’s needed, but not at the doorstep of a football supporter who just wants to watch his/her team play a game of footy.

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6 minutes ago, Foluwashola said:

Fail to see why you should have to justify yourself to anyone or why it in anyway impinges on your 'moral purity'.

 

We don't get the choice to change teams, for most it's an accident of birth. The politics of the owner(s) is an absolute irrelevance for the most part. 


You have the choice to walk away though.

 

There’s never been a moral purity in being a football fan, though some Liverpool fans like to pretebd otherwise. It’s just that sometimes there are moral questions that are worth considering. 

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7 minutes ago, leffe186 said:


You have the choice to walk away though.

 

There’s never been a moral purity in being a football fan, though some Liverpool fans like to pretebd otherwise. It’s just that sometimes there are moral questions that are worth considering. 

 

:thup: definitely. It's going to be an ongoing process as well, lets see how this all pans out in practice. My gut feeling is the Saudis will be silent partners trusting Staveley and the Reubens with the decision-making. But if not, and the club started engaging in activities I find offensive then there may be a point at which I walk away.

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I'm not really bothered tbh, there's worse countries in the world and really that's just the way the world is.  I don't agree with a lot of the stuff they do but it's their business and if I was to boycott everything coming from a regime I disagree with then I'd basically never do anything.  If the Saudi's have a revolution and it's sunshine and roses in the streets then more power to them but that's not got much to do with Newcastle beating Stoke 3-0 in the league cup.

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1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

There's those out there who are of the idea that Newcastle fans should walk away from the club given these owners, which to me is mental. Just things I've seen online, sample size may well be small but just what I've seen.


Is that really any different than the circumstances surrounding the formation of FC United of Manchester?

 

Just saying, as I imagine many here would’ve sympathized with that decision.

 

 

Edited by Tomato Deuce

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1 hour ago, christ said:

Don’t get me wrong, I agree completely. I just thought it was interesting to tease out the small nugget of truth in the initial post. 

There’s an element of hypocrisy or willful ignorance around this whole subject. We in the West have been tricked by good old euphemism for decades now. Khashoggi's murder is rightly held up as horrific, but the U.K. and US have been carrying out extra-judicial killings on an almost daily basis for the past 30 years. We just call them targeted drone strikes. Ah but he was a journalist not a foreign combatant, why is Edward Snowden living in exile?

 

many of the same people I’ve seen suddenly take an interest in football these past few days on my social media are the same who tweeted they didn’t believe Dr David Kelly or Jeffrey Epstein killed themselves. So if they believe the U.K. and US routinely kill their own citizens to protect the rich and powerful and then continue on living their lives without protest, what are they aghast at Saudi for? Being a bit shit at it and getting caught?

 

For what it’s worth I am conflicted about this whole affair and would really rather not be owned by a brutal regime. But I can’t help but see the typical Nationalistic Western Exceptionalism written across swathes of the recent commentary around the takeover. 

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Not bothered at all. I just enjoy it. 
I don’t feel shame, guilt or anything negative. I love it:celb:
But I do understand the need for the top six to crawl out with their morale talk, I’d be scared too.  But they can f*** right off. Finally, our time has come:smitten:

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6 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said:


Is that really any different than the circumstances surrounding the formation of FC United of Manchester?

 

Just saying, as I imagine many here would’ve sympathized with that decision.

 

 

 

 

I don't know enough about the Glazer takeover of Manchester United or FC United of Manchester to really comment, but I'm assuming that FC United was formed because of how they acquired Manchester United (I believe they borrowed against Man Utd's assets as opposed to using their own money) and how they were going to run the club rather than moral ambiguity about the Glazers and their money in question or condemnation from white collar journalists and fans of other clubs.

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3 minutes ago, GWN said:

I'm avoiding this thread , nothing to do with football 

 

You won't read this then since you're definitely avoiding this thread and not just posting to be a nob.

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10 minutes ago, loki679 said:

I'm not really bothered tbh, there's worse countries in the world and really that's just the way the world is.  I don't agree with a lot of the stuff they do but it's their business and if I was to boycott everything coming from a regime I disagree with then I'd basically never do anything.  If the Saudi's have a revolution and it's sunshine and roses in the streets then more power to them but that's not got much to do with Newcastle beating Stoke 3-0 in the league cup.

Steady on, as if we’d beat anyone in the League Cup! Fucking hell this takeover has turned peoples heads massively…

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The proof will be in the pudding.  If the club is run responsibly.  If the club benefits the the community.  If women's football and girls youth football are given a proper go then all will be well.

 

Believe me, with this takeover still in the wings I waited to see what came out of the release of 9/11 information.  Because if it was shown that the Saudi's were complicit in those attacks I wouldn't be celebrating this takeover.  Yes, there are civil rights issues.  However, F1 and a host of other ventures tells me that this purchase is just part of the process.  I'm ok with that.

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  • Rich changed the title to Delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership.
  • Rich changed the title to The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

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