Eddie Howe - Granted Freedom of Newcastle

[Abacus]

First we're complaining about getting points we shouldn't have. Now we're complaining about not getting points we should have.

 

Come on NO, make your minds up.

[Collage]

23 minutes ago, Abacus said:

First we're complaining about getting points we shouldn't have. Now we're complaining about not getting points we should have.

 

Come on NO, make your minds up.

NO is many people

[Abacus]

30 minutes ago, Collage said:

NO is many people

 

My silly comment just made me laugh when I posted it. I'm very sorry for my childish behaviour.

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I don't think it's as straightforward as 7th in squad cost should expect to finish 7th. There's always going to be one or two of the 6 that underperform and we have the advantage of not being in Europe.

 

Whilst our squad cost may be 7th, there is a big gap to 8th, we're not far off Liverpool and Spurs and there are currently 6 teams all with squad costs of at least £145m less than us above us in the table.

 

Also, unless our form really turns around, we're not finishing 7th this season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is that simple mind. Most teams finish within 3 places of the squad cost on average.  
 

You’re absolutely wrong about squad cost and wages. From the last known account we are 7th and 8th in squad cost and wages swapping with Villa. Wages 8th closer to Everton, Villa and Leeds than the 6th place club Arsenal. The squad cost was 7th - 100m short of Spurs in 6th (who have spent 500m since these accounts iirc). Again closer in wages squad cost to Leeds, West Ham & Everton.  
 

The bottom line is the squad is far closer in value and wages to Wst Ham and Everton than Arsenal or Spurs. 
 

Im not arguing the point that we should be happy with 11th. If Howe finishes 11th he will fairly sacked. But some of you expect him to overachieve as par.  Not The atmosphere at the club, squad or recent transfer windows make finishing higher than our budget and cost an unreasonable expectation.  Howe benefitted from atmospheere for a long time - now it’s against him (although partial self created).  
 

 

Some of the clubs that will finish above us will do so not because they have better managers. But because the clubs are better run. Smarter transfers, better atmospheres.  For a club to over achieve the transfers, squad building and atmosphere needs to be good. Ours is not.  

[OverThere]

6 hours ago, TRon said:

 

 

Did anyone at the club actually specify the target = 6th?

 

From what I understand the target is Europe and that can be achieved even with an 8th place finish if things go our way.

Very unlikely 8th would do it, more likely 6th.

[Matt1892]

I think they said at the time that the last time a club finished 7th and didn’t qualify for European football was when Wigan and Swansea won the cup competitions a decade ago.

 

If Howe can’t achieve European football this season then he will be gone, if he lasts that long.

[Monters]

Purely personal opinion but I'm not convinced UEFA Conference League is worth it... If the club is not fully behind the manager then that comp should not save him nor sacrifice if they do think he is the man to take us forward! If you a setting a target then it has to be CL or EL and then give the tools to make it a realistic aim... TCD has explained the perceived squad costs etc and reasonable targets so I won't rehash   

 

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Monters
typo

[PauloGeordio]

[J7]

Finishing behind these Spurs and Man Utd teams would be a failure, regardless of squad costs.

[wormy]

5 hours ago, PauloGeordio said:

 

Well that settles it. Howe Out. This man defended Bruce ffs. 

[J7]

7 minutes ago, wormy said:

 

Well that settles it. Howe Out. This man defended Bruce ffs. 

And Souness.

[Kid Icarus]

And Howe. And Rafa. And Hughton. And Keegan. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Kid Icarus

[Joe1984]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

And Howe. And Rafa. And Hughton. And Keegan. 

 

 

 

The nerve of the guy...

[TheBrownBottle]

On 09/12/2024 at 21:07, Interpolic said:

In the context at the time, that banner was spot on. The context being we were still being mocked as deluded geordies while witnessing all ambition being systematically stripped from the club over the course of 14 years. 

 

It still holds water, in the sense we want the club to be striving to improve within whatever constraints they're forced to operate in.

 

To call it "desperately pathetic" is unbelievable stuff @TheBrownBottle What would be on your banner? What were you doing at the time to get Ashley out? 

The banner wasn’t aimed at Ashley, it was an attempt to make the media nicer to us.  It is a statement of non-ambition in itself.  Of course we fucking well demand a team that wins - not every game, but I’m sick to death of the club being less than what it could be.  What possible difference would it have made to Ashley?

 

At the time I’d quit going after decades of travelling home and away to NUFC games.  I refused to give Ashley another penny post-KK.  I made my protest, and others chose how to make theirs, and no doubt mine was no less ineffective than anyone else’s.  So my banner was an empty seat - though I’d happily have supported one calling for Ashley to be made into a eunuch.  But appeals to our ‘friends’ in the media to change the narrative?  Nah. 
 

I absolutely could have used less emotionally charged language in the original post, and re-reading it I was more strident than I actually feel about it.  But I also don’t like attempts to hold everyone to account for statements that were not made by all of us. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by TheBrownBottle

[Kid Icarus]

Do you think 'making the media be nicer to us' was the end goal in itself, or do you think it might have been a strategic move as part of a bigger goal to change the narrative and increase pressure on Ashley? 

 

Ashley Out was an N-O organised campaign, so most people on here know exactly why certain moves were made like.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by Kid Icarus

[Rich]

You think you know someone.
 

[54]

5 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The banner wasn’t aimed at Ashley, it was an attempt to make the media nicer to us.  It is a statement of non-ambition in itself.  Of course we fucking well demand a team that wins - not every game, but I’m sick to death of the club being less than what it could be.  What possible difference would it have made to Ashley?

 

At the time I’d quit going after decades of travelling home and away to NUFC games.  I refused to give Ashley another penny post-KK.  I made my protest, and others chose how to make theirs, and no doubt mine was no less ineffective than anyone else’s.  So my banner was an empty seat - though I’d happily have supported one calling for Ashley to be made into a eunuch.  But appeals to our ‘friends’ in the media to change the narrative?  Nah. 
 

I absolutely could have used less emotionally charged language in the original post, and re-reading it I was more strident than I actually feel about it.  But I also don’t like attempts to hold everyone to account for statements that were not made by all of us. 

 

 

 

I don't want to seem like i'm having a go here, as you seem like a decent bloke, but I personally don't demand a team that wins, and I think it can be a very toxic way to look at supporting a football club. I demand a football club and squad that is trying to win every game, that I expect, but not that they must win every game. No team on this earth has a god given right to demand their team wins, and its a fallacy to think so, and quite frankly entitled, and very Chelsea/ Real Madrid like, two of the most detestable clubs on the planet. 

 

In regards to the message itself, at the time it was spot on, it wasn't about "making friends with the media" it was about getting a message out there that the club wasn't even attempting to compete, it was happy with mediocrity, with 17th being enough, and the fans having had enough and wanting change. It was absolutely the right thing to say in that moment, and i'm honestly surprised there are any fans that disagree. 

[TRon]

6 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The banner wasn’t aimed at Ashley, it was an attempt to make the media nicer to us.  It is a statement of non-ambition in itself.  Of course we fucking well demand a team that wins - not every game, but I’m sick to death of the club being less than what it could be.  What possible difference would it have made to Ashley?

 

At the time I’d quit going after decades of travelling home and away to NUFC games.  I refused to give Ashley another penny post-KK.  I made my protest, and others chose how to make theirs, and no doubt mine was no less ineffective than anyone else’s.  So my banner was an empty seat - though I’d happily have supported one calling for Ashley to be made into a eunuch.  But appeals to our ‘friends’ in the media to change the narrative?  Nah. 
 

I absolutely could have used less emotionally charged language in the original post, and re-reading it I was more strident than I actually feel about it.  But I also don’t like attempts to hold everyone to account for statements that were not made by all of us. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that's a misreading of the banner tbh. Demanding a team that tries is referring to a team that tries to win things, cups, titles etc. You seem to be reading it as "oh well we tried, that's the main thing, results are not the be all and end all".

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It was a club that tries. 
 

Really surprising that we’re having to debate how class that campaign was. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Yorkie]

13 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It was a club that tries. 
 

Really surprising that we’re having to debate how class that campaign was. 

 

 

 

 

There were plenty of "you don't speak for me" types back then too. 

[Matt1892]

48 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It was a club that tries. 
 

Really surprising that we’re having to debate how class that campaign was. 

 

 

 

Yeah, it was about being a club that showed ambition, rather than doing the bare minimum to try and stay in the league.

 

It isn’t anything to do with the effort put in by the players on the pitch, or expecting the team to win every week, which is why it is strange when people use it to defend Howe, when people are unhappy with the performances and league position.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

5 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Yeah, it was about being a club that showed ambition, rather than doing the bare minimum to try and stay in the league.

 

It isn’t anything to do with the effort put in by the players on the pitch, or expecting the team to win every week, which is why it is strange when people use it to defend Howe, when people are unhappy with the performances and league position.

TBF it does have a nod towards expectations and does imply that when we criticise the situation we should keep the larger context in mind (generally things are much better than ever before and decisions will be made for the right reasons). 
 

Each to their own on how they assess the current situation though, personally I’m easy to please on a short-term basis because I remember how horrific the Ashley era was. Therefore I’m more likely to want to believe the best about people like the manager. 

[The College Dropout]

That messaging - to me - meant trying to be as good as possible within reason. Ambition with a cap.

 

The media would say "the Geordies want to be in the CL - that's unreasonable." When we had an Owner that flatlined revenue for over a decade while it grew for all other PL clubs, let the stadium become decrepit, poor training facilities & academy - worse than our neighbourhood rivals. 

 

For all Shephard's faults - at least he tried. We had great training facilities for the time. Tried to make big commercial deals etc.

 

PIF are talking about becoming number 1 - so all that "a club that tries" shit is out the window for me personally. I'm ok if they downgrade long-term expectations - they just need to communicate that. But for now i'm judging them on their approach to becoming number 1.

[TRon]

2 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

That messaging - to me - meant trying to be as good as possible within reason. Ambition with a cap.

 

The media would say "the Geordies want to be in the CL - that's unreasonable." When we had an Owner that flatlined revenue for over a decade while it grew for all other PL clubs, let the stadium become decrepit, poor training facilities & academy - worse than our neighbourhood rivals. 

 

For all Shephard's faults - at least he tried. We had great training facilities for the time. Tried to make big commercial deals etc.

 

PIF are talking about becoming number 1 - so all that "a club that tries" shit is out the window for me personally. I'm ok if they downgrade long-term expectations - they just need to communicate that. But for now i'm judging them on their approach to becoming number 1.

 

They are specifically being blocked wilfully and legally from becoming number 1. In fact they are being blocked by specifically formulated rules to stop them even becoming number 2, 3 and 4. So you can judge all you like, it doesn't change that reality.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I mean, the ambition is to be number one still I assume. Whether that takes a decade or whatever (or is impossible) is a different question.