Eddie Howe

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

A large proportion of the crowd will turn, that's what. Howe will come under massive pressure. Losing to them with the gulf in quality between the 2 teams wouldn't be on. We lost to Cambridge in his first year. Nobody was arsed. We had more important things to worry about like staying in the league. We lost to Sheff Wed last year. Nobody was arsed because we were concentrating on the League Cup.

 

This game takes on so much more significance. Obviously because it's against them but also because we haven't got the League Cup to concentrate on, and we haven't got a top 4 place to go after. Can't really see us getting top 6 unless we can do something with our away form. Teams sat 19th/20 in the away form table don't generally make top 6.

 

We need to put these to bed and use that as a springboard to kick on this season. Nothing else will be acceptable.

 

Agree mate. I found it hard to stomach but at the end of the day I looked at Liverpool's team and ours last night and I couldn't argue that we could realistically expect a win. They have bought better and paid far more in wages.

 

By the same token I don't want any excuses for the cup game either. Whatever team we put out there will be much more expensive and higher paid than the mackems. Fuck their stadium and their fans. Just go out their and outplay them, which I am sure we will.

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

Agree mate. I found it hard to stomach but at the end of the day I looked at Liverpool's team and ours last night and I couldn't argue that we could realistically expect a win. They have bought better and paid far more in wages.

 

By the same token I don't want any excuses for the cup game either. Whatever team we put out there will be much more expensive and higher paid than the mackems. Fuck their stadium and their fans. Just go out their and outplay them, which I am sure we will.

 

Same mate. We all knew beforehand what the outcome would be so no complaints that what happened, is what I expected to happen. However, I didn't like the way we started the game by looking like a non league team setting up against a PL team away from home when it looked like we were happy just to keep the score respectable. My bigger problem is that we seem to set up away from home like that regardless of opposition. Whether it's Brighton, Bournemouth, Luton or whoever.

 

If we go out with that attitude of sitting back on Saturday againstweak opponents lets be honest here, and especially baring in mind we are nowhere near as solid defensively as last season, we are likely to concede first, their crowd will go mental, and all of a sudden it's a very long afternoon for us. There's no excuse for us not to do to them what Liverpool did to us. I'll be very interested to see Howes approach to this one. I really hope he doesn't shit it. Could well be a season defining game.

[Kid Icarus]

18 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just to repeat it again. If a large proportion of the crowd turn - in the context of that barely happening at all when Pardew was letting them pull our pants down - they either have collective amnesia or their support isn't worth much.

 

Not in 12/13. That was definitely during the 'maybe he'll change' Ashley era.

[Minhosa]

6 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Amen. I know this is not new information, but I feel like people have lost some perspective on where we sit largely due to how quickly we closed the gap in the table last season and our very rich owners.

• Our wages are the 9th highest in the Premier League, behind the six you'd expect plus Villa and West Ham.
  • We are as close to Everton in 10th as we are to West Ham.
  • Our wages are about £50m higher than Sheffield United's (19th), which is roughly the same gap from us to Liverpool. Chelsea's are another £16m higher from there and then Arsenal takes it another £16m higher. The Manchester clubs are another £35m+ above them.
• Our last officially reported revenue was less than the wages paid by the Manchester clubs. Even with the increases over the last couple years Manchester United's and Manchester City's wages are still closer to our revenue than our wages. The gap is astronomical.
• There are ~42 players in the Premier League on higher wages than Bruno, our highest paid player.
  • There are another ~23 before our next highest paid (Isak)
  • That means you can create almost six starting XI's of the highest paid players and we'd only have one player included.
• We have gotten 450 or less league minutes from Tonali, Targett (despite Burn being injured), Willock, Murphy, and Anderson. Just those players account for 21% of our wages and as everyone knows that is far from the end of our injury problems.

 

All of the above is not to absolve Eddie of any blame. He's made some mistakes and I think he'd be the first to recognize that. But so much of the angst in this thread and elsewhere seems driven by ballooning expectations. We overachieved last season based on our revenue, wages, talent, and depth, plus a very good injury record. We are now (currently) underachieving in the midst of a horrific injury record and compounding fatigue problems (and we were still moments from the CL knockout round and a second straight LC semifinal). It's frustrating and the derby is huge, but some patience is in order.

Superb post and further evidence that we need to be patient and play the long game. 
 

That simply can’t come with a revolving door for managerial appointments. 
 

The owners must stick with Howe. There’s nobody better to represent them, the club nor the region. 

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Same mate. We all knew beforehand what the outcome would be so no complaints that what happened, is what I expected to happen. However, I didn't like the way we started the game by looking like a non league team setting up against a PL team away from home when it looked like we were happy just to keep the score respectable. My bigger problem is that we seem to set up away from home like that regardless of opposition. Whether it's Brighton, Bournemouth, Luton or whoever.

 

If we go out with that attitude of sitting back on Saturday againstweak opponents lets be honest here, and especially baring in mind we are nowhere near as solid defensively as last season, we are likely to concede first, their crowd will go mental, and all of a sudden it's a very long afternoon for us. There's no excuse for us not to do to them what Liverpool did to us. I'll be very interested to see Howes approach to this one. I really hope he doesn't shit it. Could well be a season defining game.

 

I could understand sitting deeper against Liverpool though, we don't have any pace in our back four if we push up and get countered, Liverpool are especially good at doing that as well. Even with numbers back Salah was still tormenting our left side, can you imagine what they'd have done with Burn and Botman exposed?

 

Saturday is very different, they won't have the players to hurt us in the same way. We can hurt them assuming we can put out a half decent first 11. It really should just be about better players making the difference.

[SUPERTOON]

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks saying PIF will be ruthless and won’t accept a poor season. What exactly is this based on, because nothing they have done since the takeover suggest this.

 

 

Edited January 2 by SUPERTOON

[TRon]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks saying PIF will be ruthless

and won’t accept a poor season. What exactly is this based on, because nothing they have done since the takeover suggest this.

 

It's based on fuck all.

[Paulinho]

5 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks saying PIF will be ruthless and won’t accept a poor season. What exactly is this based on, because nothing they have done since the takeover suggest this.

 

 

 

It’s based mostly on divvies who want to appear knowledgeable by saying things like “His Excellency does not accept second best!”.

[Wallsendmag]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I could understand sitting deeper against Liverpool though, we don't have any pace in our back four if we push up and get countered, Liverpool are especially good at doing that as well. Even with numbers back Salah was still tormenting our left side, can you imagine what they'd have done with Burn and Botman exposed?

 

Saturday is very different, they won't have the players to hurt us in the same way. We can hurt them assuming we can put out a half decent first 11. It really should just be about better players making the difference.

 

I can but I also watched how Fulham set up there the other week and were very unlucky not to win. Liverpool can be got at. Just thought once again our approach on the road was so negative which has been the story of the season. 

 

As you say, Saturday has to be very different.

[Holmesy]

The naivety of our approach, given the current circumstances around player availability and fitness, is concerning. It's like EH is stuck on one setting and everything we do has to be based around that setting.

We continually push everyone forward, despite a chronic lack of pace, and leave ourselves vulnerable to the counter attack 4-5 times every game. That isn't a difficult thing to change and yet, it isn't being addressed.

Dan Burn at left back is a disaster at times. Every team knows to target him and gets plenty of joy out of doing so. I appreciate the Hall transfer hasn't worked out but Livra at left back and Krafth at RB would've been a comfortably better option last night.

The ease with which teams play through our midfield, with one simple pass, leaving us on the back foot is embarrassing. When we're so one-paced as well, it's just tactical suicide. And yet, game-in, game-out nothing changes in this regard.

 

I'm definitely not in the Howe out camp, but watching this shit happen every game and getting dominated by the likes of Everton, Forest, Luton etc. is wearing very thin. None of us expected to win last night but we lost exhibiting the same glaring weaknesses that cost us against those lesser teams.

 

'Fatigue' has so far let some poor management off the hook, but how long will it be before that forgiving attitude changes?

 

 

[Tiresias]

100%. Looking at us recently we are glaringly open at the back and that surely has to be addressed and I'm not sure I see it. I remember when last season started we went through a very very sturdy at the back first half of the season but weren't initially scoring enough goals. Howe said he sacrificed a bit of defensive solidity to get us to score more then Miggy went on that run and a lot clicked. Howe needs to get the team back to that solidity even if we lose a bit in attack because the balance is all wrong right now. 

 

While we have never been a possession based team we certainly didnt seem to give the ball away so easily before.

[The College Dropout]

In Howe's defence - when Klopp gets injuries and bad form. He doesn't seem to do much to rectify it either tactically. He's started inverting TAA at the end of last season but he didn't do much prior to that from Aug - Feb/March.

 

He's relied on getting his players back / signing new players to play his style of football.

 

I don't follow Liverpool and their tactics closely mind so I could be completely wrong. I do remember seeing a 442 at some point.

[Geogaddi]

The more you see us play this season the more you realise how miraculous Eddie did last season to get us to 4th and a cup final , we could lose 5-0 on Saturday and I still wouldn't want him sacked . 

[clintdempsey]

If last season is deemed a 'miracle' can we really expect it to happen again?

 

For the record I don't see last season as miraculous - a few things fell in or favour (other sides having off-seasons, a welcome WC break in the middle of the season). But last season's achievements were more down to hard graft and a very good coach having enough time with his players on the training ground to prepare for games.

 

 

Edited January 2 by clintdempsey

[BShearer]

Howe is being asked lot of questions tactically these days and he fails to answer them. Luton, Forest, Pool, all very different sides, we lost them all and we never looked like winning them.being underdog or favourite we fail the same.

 

[Orphanage]

We suffered after the WC break lost momentum for a bit

[Mattoon]

 

 

[Andy]

4 minutes ago, clintdempsey said:

If last season is deemed a 'miracle' can we really expect it to happen again?

 

For the record I don't see last season as miraculous - a few things fell in or favour (other sides having off-seasons, a welcome WC break in the middle of the season). But last season's achievments were more down to hard graft and a very good coach having enough time with his players on the training ground to prepare for games.

 

This is something Howe will have to adapt to though if he is to take the club a level further. You don't get much time on the training ground once you're fighting on all fronts, so the limited coaching time you do get has to stick. 

 

Obviously it helps if you also have better/more intelligent players who need less coaching. 

[clintdempsey]

Just now, Andy said:

 

This is something Howe will have to adapt to though if he is to take the club a level further. You don't get much time on the training ground once you're fighting on all fronts, so the limited coaching time you do get has to stick. 

 

Obviously it helps if you also have better/more intelligent players who need less coaching. 

 

Absolutely - he's got a journey to make. He's a very good coach, we all know that but he'll have to transition to a very good manager over the coming seasons. Hopefully he'll get the backing and time needed to do that.

[Jackie Broon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I don't think the board will care as much about the Sunderland game as the fans will.

 

It might be make or break with some fans but not leadership.

 

I think they will but because it is our last opportunity to compete for something this season rather than it being the mackems. Yasir turned up for Cambridge, they take the cups very seriously.

 

 

Edited January 2 by Jackie Broon

[The Prophet]

Very good post.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I think they will but because it is our last opportunity to compete for something this season rather than it being the mackems. Yasir turned up for Cambridge, they take the cups very seriously.

 

 

 

"Good run in the cups" does little to satisfy the clubs long-term ambitions. Winning a cup would be a huge achievement but anything short - IMO doesn't add much value beyond "feel good factor".

 

IMO the leadership would rather finish 7th and qualify for the Europa League (if poss), than finish 9th and get to the FA Cup semi-final or even the final and losing.

[TRon]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

"Good run in the cups" does little to satisfy the clubs long-term ambitions. Winning a cup would be a huge achievement but anything short - IMO doesn't add much value beyond "feel good factor".

 

IMO the leadership would rather finish 7th and qualify for the Europa League (if poss), than finish 9th and get to the FA Cup semi-final or even the final and losing.

 

Being in Europe is very important for the club brand to grow globally.

[Holmesy]

Team's analysis departments are so good these days that what you did one season rarely works as well the next, hence why a number of tactical approaches, multiple game plans and effective in-game management is so important. That's where some of this criticism feels warranted.

Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City can get away with largely doing the same thing season in, season out because their resources in terms of player quality are so much better than everyone else's. But even then, City have changed a lot over the years though - they now combine that technical tika-taka football with a more direct approach when needed. That's why Pep is the best in the world.

We don't have the luxury of fantastic quality in depth, so we have to be smarter. To an extent, what we're seeing is other teams having identified our weaknesses and negating our strengths.  Any unknown elements eg. Tonali/Barnes have been taken away from us and obviously the intensity that was so effective last season can't be employed to the same degree this season. But that's where EH has to earn his stripes. We've been worked out to a degree, so go again - find a new effective way for us to get results with the resources and energy reserves we have. We can't just have one tactic in our locker - that's only one more than Steve Bruce had.

 

I've no doubt he's capable of it but where are the signs Eddie is learning from his mistakes? Where are the signs we're looking to employ a different approach to manage the players' low energy levels? It seems we spent the entire summer working on one game plan, that revolved largely around what we did last season, and now we can't use that approach we look clueless. 

 

 

 

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

Team's analysis departments are so good these days that what you did one season rarely works as well the next, hence why a number of tactical approaches, multiple game plans and effective in-game management is so important. That's where some of this criticism feels warranted.

Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City can get away with largely doing the same thing season in, season out because their resources in terms of player quality are so much better than everyone else's. But even then, City have changed a lot over the years though - they now combine that technical tika-taka football with a more direct approach when needed. That's why Pep is the best in the world.

We don't have the luxury of fantastic quality in depth, so we have to be smarter. To an extent, what we're seeing is other teams having identified our weaknesses and negating our strengths.  Any unknown elements eg. Tonali/Barnes have been taken away from us and obviously the intensity that was so effective last season can't be employed to the same degree this season. But that's where EH has to earn his stripes. We've been worked out to a degree, so go again - find a new effective way for us to get results with the resources and energy reserves we have. We can't just have one tactic in our locker - that's only one more than Steve Bruce had.

 

I've no doubt he's capable of it but where are the signs Eddie is learning from his mistakes? Where are the signs we're looking to employ a different approach to manage the players' low energy levels? It seems we spent the entire summer working on one game plan, that revolved largely around what we did last season, and now we can't use that approach we look clueless. 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought we did sit deeper yesterday though, we just didn't have the players who could cope with it. Liverpool swarmed us and we couldn't find a way out.