Eddie Howe

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who:

 

Survived serious relegation threat at a canter

 

Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction.

 

Has us playing attacking, exciting football

 

Has improved every player we have without exception 

 

Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp.

 

And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because:

 

Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase

 

We're 10th

 

We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of

 

We've had a sticky patch

 

Even though: 

 

We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over

 

Our big summer signing is banned

 

The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor

 

We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season.

 

Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism'

 

If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago  and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances.

 

How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable.

 

It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone.

 

 

 

 

Can I shake your hand?

[ExiledGeordie]

Howe is a victim of his own success. All the positives in terms of impact that he’s had which Kid Icarus has outlined above have led to a meteoric rise in stature. Thats meant for some fans I feel a sense that the standards/league position/champions league qualification cannot drop at all irrespective of circumstances, which is unrealistic. I disagreed with my local journo mate when he said that the club absolutely HAS to finish in the top four now have qualified last year. I just don’t think that’s realistic with the squad we have. I mean even if we’d had everyone fit or just a couple of injuries qualifying for the top four and managing extra games with the champions league would’ve been tough. 

 

Howe can and I imagine will adapt tactically and learn from this current situation which has been very challenging but there’s no way his position should be questioned currently. Yes people can comment on or question things he’s done recently but ultimately the injury crisis this season has been the worst I can remember and has completely knackered what we’ve been able to do as a team. Even having 2 or 3 subs (e.g Barnes, Anderson, Wilson) to bring on last night and we’d probably have at least held on for a draw.

 

 

Edited January 14 by ExiledGeordie

[RS]

Howe’s @RUHRLYASLEEVESUP this morning?  You ok sausage?

[NEEJ]

4 minutes ago, RS said:

Howe’s @RUHRLYASLEEVESUP this morning?  You ok sausage?

Leave them alone, YFDC. 

[La Parka]

I still like Eddie and don't want him sacked but he must look at the system. 

 

It's clear the intensity can't be there this year. So he's created some sort of deeper press system. The problem is a lot of teams play a 10, and now we are not winning the ball back high up the field, we are 1 pass from having the opposition 10 bearing down on the defence.

 

If you watch is off the ball, the three midfielders almost sit in a flat line and press together. I feel this is the issue as if they fail at this (and the players we have in there at the minute invariably do, physical limitations seem to be the likely cause) then we are so easy to pass through.

 

I think Eddie has been extremely unlucky. But I also would like to see some action on this front as carrying on will inevitably lead to big issues for him.

[Smal]

the biggest problem with the system at the moment is that the defensive line is playing about 15 yards deeper than it usually does since Pope’s injury.

 

That’s why those gaps between defence and midfield are even bigger than usual. Last season we had Schar and Botman stepping up and marking opposition forwards into midfield, but it’s just not happening anymore because the distances are too big. It’s not a coincidence that our xG conceded has gone up massively since Pope’s injury.

 

 

Edited January 14 by Smal

[Hudson]

9 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who:

 

Survived serious relegation threat at a canter

 

Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction.

 

Has us playing attacking, exciting football

 

Has improved every player we have without exception 

 

Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp.

 

And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because:

 

Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase

 

We're 10th

 

We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of

 

We've had a sticky patch

 

Even though: 

 

We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over

 

Our big summer signing is banned

 

The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor

 

We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season.

 

Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism'

 

If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago  and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances.

 

How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable.

 

It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone.

 

 

 

What post, fucking nail well and truly on head.

[The Prophet]

6 hours ago, Jagten said:

Some interesting analysis on what is now probably the most porous defense in the league here

 

 https://x.com/jon_mackenzie/status/1746354228828766487?s=46 

 

Started circa November time? Weird that.

[PauloGeordio]

9 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who:

 

Survived serious relegation threat at a canter

 

Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction.

 

Has us playing attacking, exciting football

 

Has improved every player we have without exception 

 

Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp.

 

And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because:

 

Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase

 

We're 10th

 

We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of

 

We've had a sticky patch

 

Even though: 

 

We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over

 

Our big summer signing is banned

 

The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor

 

We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season.

 

Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism'

 

If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago  and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances.

 

How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable.

 

It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone.

 

 

 

[Ronson333]

19 minutes ago, Smal said:

the biggest problem with the system at the moment is that the defensive line is playing about 15 yards deeper than it usually does since Pope’s injury.

 

That’s why those gaps between defence and midfield are even bigger than usual. Last season we had Schar and Botman stepping up and marking opposition forwards into midfield, but it’s just not happening anymore because the distances are too big. It’s not a coincidence that our xG conceded has gone up massively since Pope’s injury.

 

 

 

Very good post and probably explains why the gap is so noticeable at the moment.

[Miggys First Goal]

9 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who:

 

Survived serious relegation threat at a canter

 

Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction.

 

Has us playing attacking, exciting football

 

Has improved every player we have without exception 

 

Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp.

 

And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because:

 

Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase

 

We're 10th

 

We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of

 

We've had a sticky patch

 

Even though: 

 

We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over

 

Our big summer signing is banned

 

The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor

 

We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season.

 

Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism'

 

If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago  and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances.

 

How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable.

 

It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone.

 

 

 

Got so erect reading this. Thanks, KI. 
 

[Begbie]

15 minutes ago, Smal said:

the biggest problem with the system at the moment is that the defensive line is playing about 15 yards deeper than it usually does since Pope’s injury.

 

That’s why those gaps between defence and midfield are even bigger than usual. Last season we had Schar and Botman stepping up and marking opposition forwards into midfield, but it’s just not happening anymore because the distances are too big. It’s not a coincidence that our xG conceded has gone up massively since Pope’s injury.

 

 

 

Totally agree with what you are saying. Also need to be mentioned Popes communication with the players are so much better than Dubravkas, and I also think this makes our defenders drop the extra yard in fear of the attacker getting space behind them.

[Smal]

League only:

 

xG conceded per 90 pre-Pope injury: 1.02

xG conceded per 90 post-Pope injury: 3.16

[The College Dropout]

We’ve had the issue with the flatness of the midfield 3 and the gap between defence and midfield for a long time.   Before Pope’s injury.  But I can accept it’s been made worse by his injury. 
 

It’s a long standing structural issue.  It’s highly mitigated when we can play with top intensity. That requires our top athletes to be fit and in good physical form (Willock, Joelinton, Longstaff, Tonali, the wingers and attackers). We’ve not had that since November. 
 

I don’t think it’s strictly a case of ‘being figured out’ at all. We’ve not been able to execute it as intended for months. 
 

My frustration remains not trying to mitigate the approach that hasn’t worked for months.  I’ve seen the same second half so many times this season.  
 

People often say ‘I believe Howe will learn and adapt’ and I don’t see much evidence for that atm.  Rather I think we’ll be able to play effective Howe ball soon and with that we’ll get better results. 
 

 

One thing I expect him to learn from is managing load better and taking less risks with injuries. I believe Howe does go against medical advice and plays players if they are willing to give it a go. Schar one in particular.  He needs to stop that and take a conservative approach. With that - he needs to be more pragmatic in his approach to attacking competitions too. 
 

I’ve got a lot of love for Eddie. We need a massive push after the Villa game. But we need players back and to take it easy with them as they do. 

[Aiston]

20 minutes ago, Smal said:

League only:

 

xG conceded per 90 pre-Pope injury: 1.02

xG conceded per 90 post-Pope injury: 3.16

 

And like 10 of our goals conceded 'post-Pope' have been individual errors, mostly attributed to one player who wasn't making those errors with Pope.

 

We've had the easy to exploit gap between defence and midfield all season...we saw it in pre-season !

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

7 hours ago, Jagten said:

Some interesting analysis on what is now probably the most porous defense in the league here

 

 https://x.com/jon_mackenzie/status/1746354228828766487?s=46 

The problem isn’t the defence for me. It’s that defensive midfield hole that we have.

 

If we had a beast of a defensive midfielder teams wouldn’t be cutting through us.

[Lenny]

8 hours ago, BShearer said:

this season is a bit of a reality check for Howe but also for the club in terms of if we want to be a PL/CL force what we need to improve on an look out for.

 

all the injuries, the sick schedule increase, the group of death CL draw, the horrific Carabao draw.

these can be excuses but then excuses wont get us to be a PL/CL force.

we need to improve on these and learn from them a lot and also on the transfers which were generally quite on the hit since takeover until the summer window. this time tho the way it turned out this was a mediocre window in hindsight which helped us not much really apart from the few good games Livramento had.

 

 

 

Is it really a reality check? There's pretty unanimous acknowledgement from the club be it commercial, operational, on field and all in between that we massively over achieved last season. 

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

4 minutes ago, Lenny said:

Is it really a reality check? There's pretty unanimous acknowledgement from the club be it commercial, operational, on field and all in between that we massively over achieved last season. 

And we did over achieve.

 

But are we where we should be this season?

 

We may well be slightly under achieving this season. Albeit our injuries have been horrendous.

[Begbie]

55 minutes ago, ExiledGeordie said:

Howe is a victim of his own success. All the positives in terms of impact that he’s had which Kid Icarus has outlined above have led to a meteoric rise in stature. Thats meant for some fans I feel a sense that the standards/league position/champions league qualification cannot drop at all irrespective of circumstances, which is unrealistic. I disagreed with my local journo mate when he said that the club absolutely HAS to finish in the top four now have qualified last year. I just don’t think that’s realistic with the squad we have. I mean even if we’d had everyone fit or just a couple of injuries qualifying for the top four and managing extra games with the champions league would’ve been tough. 

 

Howe can and I imagine will adapt tactically and learn from this current situation which has been very challenging but there’s no way his position should be questioned currently. Yes people can comment on or question things he’s done recently but ultimately the injury crisis this season has been the worst I can remember and has completely knackered what we’ve been able to do as a team. Even having 2 or 3 subs (e.g Barnes, Anderson, Wilson) to bring on last night and we’d probably have at least held on for a draw.

 

 

 

I kinda agree with you both, you journo mate and you. I dont believe this season we need to finnish top 4, but I do believe our goal should be that we where in the fight for top 4(atleast top 5). Atm we are almost as far from top 4 as we are from relegation, which I dont think is good enough considering all the money we have spent over the last two seasons.

 

I dont think seriously any Newcastle supporters want Howe out at the moment? and most of us hopes he can turn things around, but we must also be allowed to ask the question about whats wrong. If we analyze the season so far we dont have many good games, by good games I mean games which we played like we did last season. At the start of the season we looked really unfit except a few players(Gordon and Anderson), which I was kinda shocked about because Howe doesnt strike me as a lazy manager like Bruce, so could it be that our players was to hardly trained in the preseason? I must admit we really looked lazy in the pre-season games, Guimarez and Joelinton were playing like they were still on the beach in copacobana with a couple of drinks in their hand.

if Villa hadnt got their star defender Mings injured i´m not sure we would have won that game, and our start of the season would have looked so much worse. Then our managing team(coaches, physios etc), not only Howe has to be asked how you can play almost the same squad in the mickey mouse cup(carabao cup), premier league, champions league and this imo led to our squad getting exhausted and more injuries. I even question last week that we started our best players against a young mid table championship side, and getting just one player injured was lucky.

 

Our transfer window in the summer was terrible, the signings were expensive and none of them are starters by now. Tonali was a fantastic player but i really dont know why we signed him? Is he a replacement for Guimarez? Or is he a signing so Guimarez can move further up the pitch? He really feels like a luxury signing which we really couldnt afford in the summer. I hope he will come good next season. Harvey Barnes feels like a squad rotation player which we know what we get from, and that meant we lost a player who could change up things. PS! I dont say that ASM is the answer but we should have gotten a more creative player.

Imo there are 3 players which we should have signed that we missed out on and thats Diaby, Paqueta and Maddison, all those players I think we could have gotten. We also showed signs last season that our cb are slow, and we should have bought a quicker cb to able to mix things up. I also wondering where are the gems we used to pick up, even under Ashley we could pick up players like Cabaye, HBA, Sissoko, Remy, Ba, etc. Really hope we are not loosing out on them just because we are signing english or PL proven players.

 

In the end football is a result oriented game which our owners know, we have lost 6 of the last 7 games in the Premier League, and among those were Luton and Nottingham Forrest. I dont know why we are not going to a warm country in the 2 weeks break, that could really have boosted the team moral imo. For a long time now we have not been showing signs of improvement and I do fear that this is his last season if he doesnt turn it around soon. I do think and hope that he manage to turn it around and that the club really analyzes from top to bottom(medical team, coaching team ++)what went wrong and how we can improve to get where we want to be.

 

 

 

 

 

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

Howe is a safe option. He is a safe manager. He has done fantastic and took us to the next level. Which was 5-9 position.

 

We are slightly below that right now and it can be excused because of injuries.

 

February onwards we should see the true picture because we will have players back then.

 

Can Eddie take us to the next level which is consistently top 4. I’m not sure. But let’s see.

[The Prophet]

If I had a tactical question of Eddie, this would be it. It's been massively exacerbated by fatigue, but without our trademark intensity and the physicality of Joelinton we've struggled with players drifting between the lines. Villa, Brighton, Dortmund and Liverpool (off the top of my head) have all exploited it.

 

The thing is, if we see it, the notoriously meticulous coaching team do too. It'll be interesting to see whether we alter it with a tactical tweak, a personal change or simply see it as a long term trade off of the high press.

[Smal]

If our midfield line is pressing that high then the defensive line has to step up higher too. We can’t put all the focus on the midfield shape. The defence can’t be that deep when the midfield are pressing, it’s crazy.

[The Prophet]

Just now, Smal said:

If our midfield line is pressing that high then the defensive line has to step up higher too. We can’t put all the focus on the midfield shape. The defence can’t be that deep when the midfield are pressing, it’s crazy.

 

Perhaps the defensive line has dropped deeper due to the absence of Pope? Total guesswork like. 

[RS]

The continual backing off of our centre halves is an issue for me. We invite drives into our box. Even the mackems nearly benefited from it.  

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Perhaps the defensive line has dropped deeper due to the absence of Pope? Total guesswork like. 

Probably has been, although you can’t just tweak such a thing without considering how it effects the press and space left in front of the defence.