Eddie Howe

[ExiledGeordie]

7 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

I think it was a mistake making Bruno captain. He spends more time trying to be a leader than he does influencing the game. He used to pick out some great passes but now he's just like a workhorse.

Yeah I’m not convinced by Bruno as captain either, I think there’s issues wider than that though. 

[Displayname]

24 minutes ago, Cronky said:

Eddie's big problem is that by taking the club to fourth place, he has created an expectation which is at complete variance with the standard of players that are at his disposal. He manages to get peak performances from ordinary players week on week and it's not his fault that they come up short in certain situations. 

 

Eddie is a brilliant manager and the idea of replacing him is complete lunacy. If pressure from the fan base leads to him going then we will deserve to fail. Fortunately, I sense that our owners know the value of who we have, and will continue to back him.

Really dont think this describes the situation AT THE MOMENT. You cant say he is getting peak performances out of the likes of Joelinton, Bruno, Isak, Gordon etc. They have all looked like world beaters before, but all look lost atm. 

Yes it was Howe that lifted them all up to their potential, but even so we know that they have it and Eddie isnt getting it out of them AT THE MOMENT. 

I personally think we have looked lost for a while even though the results were pretty good at the end of last year.

 

I sincerely hope he does turn it around and it would really hurt to see him leave, honestly. 

Im not that sure that the owners are FULLY behind Eddie, dont think we would have seen the summer turned out the way it did if they were.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

Firstly, I apologise for my initial response, which wasn't very constructive. 

 

Your comment  - 'The PL - outside the top three - isn’t all that great atm' did get me going, though I think I disagreed with pretty much all the points you were making. 

 

If you were to hypothetically measure the quality of all the Premiership squads, ours would be in the bottom half IMO.

No worries  

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree re squad quality - I think we’ve got real quality in about two thirds of the squad.  There’s some obvious deficiencies, but there’s no squad outside the top six & Villa where there’s an argument for a swap for me.  Finishing below 8th with the current squad would represent failure for any manager. 

[Coffee_Johnny]

Just now, Cronky said:

 

Firstly, I apologise for my initial response, which wasn't very constructive. 

 

Your comment  - 'The PL - outside the top three - isn’t all that great atm' did get me going, though I think I disagreed with pretty much all the points you were making. 

 

If you were to hypothetically measure the quality of all the Premiership squads, ours would be in the bottom half IMO.

So much subjectivity with a 'quality' comparison.  I wonder if any one has done it on cost though? 20 players/usual first team squad. Doubt we'd be bottom half, but certainly wouldn't be anywhere near the top. 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

So much subjectivity with a 'quality' comparison.  I wonder if any one has done it on cost though? 20 players/usual first team squad. Doubt we'd be bottom half, but certainly wouldn't be anywhere near the top. 

We’ve got the 7th most expensive squad - the most expensive outside of the Sky Six:

 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/einkaufswert/wettbewerb/GB1

 

edit: by quite a margin, too - our squad cost about 25m less than Liverpool’s (6th) and about 130m more than Villa’s (8th).  Like I said, there’s no miracles being performed. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:13 by TheBrownBottle

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

We’ve got the 7th most expensive squad - the most expensive outside of the Sky Six:

 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/einkaufswert/wettbewerb/GB1

 

edit: by quite a margin, too - our squad cost about 25m less than Liverpool’s (6th) and about 130m more than Villa’s (8th).  Like I said, there’s no miracles being performed. 

4th (3rd for the majority of the season) when the squad was 9th or 10th (can't quite remember) in wages, 7th when most of that 7th in wages squad were out injured all season.

 

No miracle if you ignore that crucial context, miracle work if you don't. 

[Theregulars]

There are too many players not playing well enough; ultimately that will (rightly or wrongly) become his problem if it continues.

 

Among my concerns is how often we can’t pass to our own players or take a simple first touch; the basics haven’t been there often enough this season. 
 

Another is the lack of identifiable strategy and how confused and uncertain the players look. 
 

I really don’t understand.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

4th (3rd for the majority of the season) when the squad was 9th or 10th (can't quite remember) in wages, 7th when most of that 7th in wages squad were out injured all season.

 

No miracle if you ignore that crucial context, miracle work if you don't. 

22/23 Howe performed superbly, and outpaced where we could expect to be.

 

At this point, 7th is par - what I’m saying is that the squad isn’t average; I’m not saying Howe is a poor manager.  But miracles at this point would be challenging for the title, not finishing a position or two higher than 7th.  We don’t have a ‘average’ squad. 

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

22/23 Howe performed superbly, and outpaced where we could expect to be.

 

At this point, 7th is par - what I’m saying is that the squad isn’t average; I’m not saying Howe is a poor manager.  But miracles at this point would be challenging for the title, not finishing a position or two higher than 7th.  We don’t have a ‘average’ squad. 

Well yes but if we're judging him on what he's actually done in context I do think it's miracle work. If he finishes 7th this season and we have no major injury crisis, outgoings etc then I'll agree and call that par.

[Andy]

I'd say that leap from 2nd bottom to 4th in the space of 18 months bordered on a "miracle", the squad he did that with was relatively poor, particularly that turnaround in his first season where the players were completely shot from their time under Bruce. I'd say the squad when he arrived was certainly much worse than the squad Emery took over at Villa, for example. 

 

However, the club have to be pragmatic and judge Howe on what he's getting out of the players now. He's always been more of a motivator than a tactician, and I'm not convinced that his effect isn't wearing off on the current crop of players. We seem so flat at the moment, and without that intensity that he demands, we look a poor team. I think the next five or six games will be crucial for him. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

Well yes but if we're judging him on what he's actually done in context I do think it's miracle work. If he finishes 7th this season and we have no major injury crisis, outgoings etc then I'll agree and call that par.

Yep, I think 7th is par for the season, especially sans European football.  I think Howe’s done an excellent job to date - it was more the idea that miracles are being performed with the current squad is what I’m arguing against.  Plenty of money has been spent, and the quality is (broadly speaking) there now.  

[macphisto]

14 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Really dont think this describes the situation AT THE MOMENT. You cant say he is getting peak performances out of the likes of Joelinton, Bruno, Isak, Gordon etc. They have all looked like world beaters before, but all look lost atm. 

Yes it was Howe that lifted them all up to their potential, but even so we know that they have it and Eddie isnt getting it out of them AT THE MOMENT. 

I personally think we have looked lost for a while even though the results were pretty good at the end of last year.

 

I sincerely hope he does turn it around and it would really hurt to see him leave, honestly. 

Im not that sure that the owners are FULLY behind Eddie, dont think we would have seen the summer turned out the way it did if they were.

Is it not a case of form is temporary, class is permanent with many of our players? A lot of them were never going to be able to keep up the form from two seasons ago.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep, I think 7th is par for the season, especially sans European football.  I think Howe’s done an excellent job to date - it was more the idea that miracles are being performed with the current squad is what I’m arguing against.  Plenty of money has been spent, and the quality is (broadly speaking) there now.  

FWIW though I wouldn't say that 7th/average would be unacceptable from him in the circumstances either. There are still some big caveats about giving him the tools to bring success to the club that haven't been fulfilled. 

[macphisto]

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

22/23 Howe performed superbly, and outpaced where we could expect to be.

 

At this point, 7th is par - what I’m saying is that the squad isn’t average; I’m not saying Howe is a poor manager.  But miracles at this point would be challenging for the title, not finishing a position or two higher than 7th.  We don’t have a ‘average’ squad. 

I do view 7th as average, not troubling top of the table and not in the relegation battle. 

[Yorkie]

33 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

Our recruitment has left us set up to play one way, without any defensive midfielder in the squad and that is a gaping hole, particularly in the way we set up away from home. That is entirely by choice.

 

If our spending wasn't arbitrarily limited - or if the restrictions were even just slightly more relaxed - then we'd probably have more options imo. 

[r0cafella]

11 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

FWIW though I wouldn't say that 7th/average would be unacceptable from him in the circumstances either. There are still some big caveats about giving him the tools to bring success to the club that haven't been fulfilled. 

The problem with a seventh place finish is its regresssion into stagnation. Of course we have a lot of mitigation at play but a spade is a spade. 

[Hanshithispantz]

Villa are the benchmark imo, if they're finishing above us we've failed.

 

It might seem a bit over the top to define our season by the achievements of another team, but 6th or 7th being a benchmark when a side 'around our level' is consistently performing better than us doesn't really hold up.

 

I don't think Howe can survive without being able to implament his aggressive, pressing style, but for whatever reason it's abandoned us. Teams outside the top 6/7 couldn't play against us, but for almost a year now we're letting them. 

 

Basically I don't think you can half arse what we need to do off the ball, and if we've had to scrap our aggression to prevent injuries then we'd be better off with a different manager.

 

Edit: To clarify, I love Howe and his style and I really want it to work.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:43 by Hanshithispantz

[Shearergol]

11 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Villa are the benchmark imo, if they're finishing above us we've failed.

 

It might seem a bit over the top to define our season by the achievements of another team, but 6th or 7th being a benchmark when a side 'around our level' is consistently performing better than us doesn't really hold up.

 

I don't think Howe can survive without being able to implament his aggressive, pressing style, but for whatever reason it's abandoned us. Teams outside the top 6/7 couldn't play against us, but for almost a year now we're letting them. 

 

Basically I don't think you can half arse what we need to do off the ball, and if we've had to scrap our aggression to prevent injuries then we'd be better off with a different manager.

 

Edit: To clarify, I love Howe and his style and I really want it to work.

 

 

 

His style or the team’s style?

 

I love how Howe represents our club. I love hearing him talk. However, the team has no style anymore. Maybe he just needs better coaching staff around him now.

[Zero]

Considering the amount of games Villa has to play this season, and they have lost players like Diaby and Luiz, I agree that Villa is our benchmark. We should finish above them.

[Tiresias]

16 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Villa are the benchmark imo, if they're finishing above us we've failed.

 

It might seem a bit over the top to define our season by the achievements of another team, but 6th or 7th being a benchmark when a side 'around our level' is consistently performing better than us doesn't really hold up.

 

I don't think Howe can survive without being able to implament his aggressive, pressing style, but for whatever reason it's abandoned us. Teams outside the top 6/7 couldn't play against us, but for almost a year now we're letting them. 

 

Basically I don't think you can half arse what we need to do off the ball, and if we've had to scrap our aggression to prevent injuries then we'd be better off with a different manager.

 

Edit: To clarify, I love Howe and his style and I really want it to work.

 

 

 

 

This, i feel like Howe's pressing style does not work if you do it 90%. Burned by the injuries last season he's tried to adapt but the team isn't technically capable of playing possession football, or at least its not drilled in enough. I guess he wants to protect from injury. I love Howe and he was badly let down in summer. I don't particularly care about finding blame for it all, could be Howe, could be Mitchel, could be Eales. But you need to move the squad around every summer. The thing is it's easier to absorb the loss of a star like Gordon, Bruno or Isak if the replacement is already in the team. I was with not selling any of them to raise funds, but a promising young replacement for any of them should have been got and then we could fund a full rebuild the next summer easier as some elements already in place.

 

Whatever. I got absolutely lambasted for suggesting Howe could be in trouble this season. And for the record our points total is still fine. But without Staverley and feels slight dysfunction (even if grossly exaggerated by press) I imagine if we dont play any better Howe will unfairly end up taking the fall for it (will take some time, i dont think this is likely but if we're still crap by christmas...). Again, I suspect we will click a lot better and may be averted, but I am not sure we are in for much different a season than last one at this point, and we absolutely should be embarassed to see clubs like Villa overtake us if they do.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:58 by Tiresias

[Hanshithispantz]

Just now, Shearergol said:

His style or the team’s style?

 

I love how Howe represents our club. I love hearing him talk. However, the team has no style anymore. Maybe he just needs better coaching staff around him now.

Aye that's what I mean, the team hasn't looked like it knows what it's meant to be for ages now. 

 

We put that down to injuries and the fixture list but we've started this season looking even more disjointed. We know Howe wants to play an agressive 4-3-3 that pins the opposition in their own half. I just cannot out my finger on why he cannot seem to implament it anymore.

 

 

[SUPERTOON]

Villa having Emery gives them a big advantage over us (and many teams). He is only behind Pep imo, he’s a world class manager.

[TRon]

8 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Howe’s overall body of work is excellent for us. I don’t think anyone would agree that. 
 

But do we think we’ll finish 4th this season?  Why? Our performances and form over the last 12 months suggest we won’t be that consistent.  We often look vulnerable defensively and incoherent in attack. With repeated issues over the last year.  

 

Why would you expect him to finish 4th? Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and City all have squads far more expensive than ours. I think 6th/7th is probably as good as you could reasonably expect given the squad we've got.

[Hanshithispantz]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Why would you expect him to finish 4th? Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and City all have squads far more expensive than ours. I think 6th/7th is probably as good as you could reasonably expect given the squad we've got.

Because Chelsea and Man Utd are meme clubs. Like I said, if Villa finish above them, we should too.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If Villa finish 3rd or 4th that’s because they’ve had an incredible season. Expecting us to match that would be silly. 
 

If Villa finish 7th, we can talk.