Eddie Howe

[TRC]

Regarding the poll, I personally blame the board. 

 

Eddie Howe is the only stable thing we have at the club likely to finish between 4th-8th each year.

 

I think this wouldn’t be good enough if the club was progressing everywhere else and we continued to be in and around the CL places but the bloke has been given a shit end of the stick. Maresca, Amorim, Nuno have all been sacked or left due to not getting along with the board. I think another manager would have walked by now.

 

If he was to leave we would be in danger of being a basket case club like Spurs or Man U

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

(sorry, this started as a response to the Barnes narrative and then meandered through some of my frustrations with the anti-Eddie stuff)

 

If you are unhappy with where the first XI or squad is currently and/or you're unhappy with our lack of business for two years then it can be traced back to that window. It's not about any one specific player, but it is a fact that we overspent. The most generous explanation is the overspending was a calculated gamble backed by a belief there'd be an easy exit ramp come June. The gamble was European progression / the ability to compete in the PL and starting with the CL draw just about everything went against us. Our group, the injuries, Tonali, more injuries, the handball in Paris, and then more injuries. The presumed exit ramp was that Bruno's release clause would be triggered or to sell Joelinton (Ashworth's plan), but Ashworth leaving in the middle of that season meant that we no longer had a plan (that assumes we did have a plan; there's a more damning alternate history that would say we were just drunkenly maxing out the credit card all summer). That led to the Anderson/Minteh scramble, which was unfortunate.

 

The reason this entire debate seems preposterous to some is that we unarguably hit a home run in terms of the players we brought in. It's just that almost all of them took a year to have a significant impact (which should maybe be a lesson when making judgments about this past summer's business). The amount we spent that summer though is also why we then went three windows without adding anyone of significance, which I do think has caught up to us a bit this season.

 

Ultimately the players we bought that summer and the ones we didn't sell are a big reason we won a trophy less than 12 months ago. A trophy many thought they'd never see, so I find it really difficult to care too much about Yankuba Minteh and what might have been. Those players are also the reason we're currently in the Champions League, progressing in the CL, and on course to absolutely shatter our revenue record. 

 

We seem to have (over)reacted to what happened in 2023/24 by telling Staveley to get lost and hiring Mitchell behind the manager's back. You can then draw a solid line connecting those decisions to the Isak saga (it is very possible Isak would have been a prick regardless, but we did not help ourselves). A lesser manager may have crumbled and NUFC would be run by Paul Mitchell right now. Instead, Eddie went and won a trophy and finished 5th which gave him all of the power (probably fair to say too much power) because we took forever to sort out the top of the house.

 

You can be upset with Eddie for a number of things, but I'm easily blaming the following ahead of him for everything other than his hilarious obsession with making subs at 60 minutes:

1) PSR and the cartel clubs - they haven't been able to completely hold us down, but it's done enough to significantly impact our squad building. It forces us to make close to zero missteps, which we have somehow come close to doing (at least through 2024/25)

2) PIF - as far as transfer business they've allowed us to spend every possible penny, but they've yet to make the significant commitment to the training ground or stadium (I still think it's coming, but it's definitely been slow). They are ultimately responsible for the lack of leadership at the top this past summer.

3) Eales - I don't want to be too harsh on him given the health issues which may have impacted him in ways we don't fully know, but you can make a pretty long list of marks against him. Notably, he needs to carry some of the blame for not having a better plan in June 2024 and he's directly responsible for Mitchell and how that went down.

 

If I'm being pessimistic the final tally on this season probably looks like a 9th place league finish, Champions League R16, League Cup semifinal, FAC 4th round, and revenues over £400m for the first time. You can create a nice sky is falling scenario where none of last summer's signings come good, multiple players leave, and we waste this summer as well. If that happens it will be a true setback and we'll likely have a new manager sometime in 2027. Or you could zoom out a bit, recognize this very well might be a transitional season, be excited about a summer with a leadership group in place, look forward to some very big games coming up, and put some trust in the man who hasn't really steered us wrong yet.

 

Post

[TRon]

20 minutes ago, TRC said:

Regarding the poll, I personally blame the board. 

 

Eddie Howe is the only stable thing we have at the club likely to finish between 4th-8th each year.

 

I think this wouldn’t be good enough if the club was progressing everywhere else and we continued to be in and around the CL places but the bloke has been given a shit end of the stick. Maresca, Amorim, Nuno have all been sacked or left due to not getting along with the board. I think another manager would have walked by now.

 

If he was to leave we would be in danger of being a basket case club like Spurs or Man U

 

 

The board have pretty much backed him from the start tbf, that's why Mitchell walked and Howe didn't. 

[Myleftboot]

How much has the club spent on transfers while Eddie’s been in charge?

[TRC]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

The board have pretty much backed him from the start tbf, that's why Mitchell walked and Howe didn't. 

It’s a shit show behind the scenes he can’t exactly be happy with it.

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, TRC said:

It’s a shit show behind the scenes he can’t exactly be happy with it.

 

It's more of a shit show at other clubs, I don't think the grass would be any greener somewhere else. 

[Smal]

Eales was an appalling appointment, like. Disastrous. 

[Joe1984]

4 hours ago, TRC said:

When you look at our signings, the overall strategy is incredibly risky.  Not many sure things in there for a team with PSR limitations.

 

we don’t really do many shrewd signings outside of Burn and Trippier.

 

i know Bruno, Hall etc were excellent in hindsight but they were risky. Hall thought we would send back to Chelsea at one point.

Tino?

[TRC]

1 minute ago, Joe1984 said:

Tino?

Coming off an ACL injury it was risky

[Joe1984]

1 minute ago, TRC said:

Coming off an ACL injury it was risky

Fair point.

[timeEd32]

18 minutes ago, TRC said:

Coming off an ACL injury it was risky

 

I mean yeah, that was the whole strategy initially. Underperforming / relegated British players and under the radar / flawed continental players. It comes with risk, but ultimately it's why we were able to sign those players. If you wait until they aren't risky then this past summer is evidence of what happens.

[Ben]

For his own self preservation, Howe has shot himself in the arse for not pushing forward this summer's transfers to now.

[duo]

He's not been backed- simple as

[Chicken Dancer]

2 minutes ago, duo said:

He's not been backed- simple as

Not sure that washes tbf. We’ve spent a small fortune since he’s been here. All been worth it mind, but he’s definitely been backed. 

[nufcjmc]

1 minute ago, duo said:

He's not been backed- simple as

We arent ever going to know if hes turned down what's been proposed/offered if anything at all I guess. 

 

He likes telling us little value in Jan, small pool of players who can possibly improve us and has to be the right deal. 

 

Seeking that just right deal is admirable but in of itself a gamble based on our lack of fit senior defenders and the fixture congestion coupled with stuttering consistency he cant work out yet. 

[astraguy]

3 minutes ago, duo said:

He's not been backed- simple as

i can't wait till we have a full squad..this lad is gonna be our fergie or wenger unless we let the trigger happy get what they want! Wor Eddie!

[duo]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said:

Not sure that washes tbf. We’ve spent a small fortune since he’s been here. All been worth it mind, but he’s definitely been backed. 

We're crying out for a new CB - Thiaw is knackered. We've head room to spend in Jan - why not get one? Doesn't make sense and I'm not having player availability as we have recruited well in Jan before.

[McCormick]

3 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

(sorry, this started as a response to the Barnes narrative and then meandered through some of my frustrations with the anti-Eddie stuff)

 

If you are unhappy with where the first XI or squad is currently and/or you're unhappy with our lack of business for two years then it can be traced back to that window. It's not about any one specific player, but it is a fact that we overspent. The most generous explanation is the overspending was a calculated gamble backed by a belief there'd be an easy exit ramp come June. The gamble was European progression / the ability to compete in the PL and starting with the CL draw just about everything went against us. Our group, the injuries, Tonali, more injuries, the handball in Paris, and then more injuries. The presumed exit ramp was that Bruno's release clause would be triggered or to sell Joelinton (Ashworth's plan), but Ashworth leaving in the middle of that season meant that we no longer had a plan (that assumes we did have a plan; there's a more damning alternate history that would say we were just drunkenly maxing out the credit card all summer). That led to the Anderson/Minteh scramble, which was unfortunate.

 

The reason this entire debate seems preposterous to some is that we unarguably hit a home run in terms of the players we brought in. It's just that almost all of them took a year to have a significant impact (which should maybe be a lesson when making judgments about this past summer's business). The amount we spent that summer though is also why we then went three windows without adding anyone of significance, which I do think has caught up to us a bit this season.

 

Ultimately the players we bought that summer and the ones we didn't sell are a big reason we won a trophy less than 12 months ago. A trophy many thought they'd never see, so I find it really difficult to care too much about Yankuba Minteh and what might have been. Those players are also the reason we're currently in the Champions League, progressing in the CL, and on course to absolutely shatter our revenue record. 

 

We seem to have (over)reacted to what happened in 2023/24 by telling Staveley to get lost and hiring Mitchell behind the manager's back. You can then draw a solid line connecting those decisions to the Isak saga (it is very possible Isak would have been a prick regardless, but we did not help ourselves). A lesser manager may have crumbled and NUFC would be run by Paul Mitchell right now. Instead, Eddie went and won a trophy and finished 5th which gave him all of the power (probably fair to say too much power) because we took forever to sort out the top of the house.

 

You can be upset with Eddie for a number of things, but I'm easily blaming the following ahead of him for everything other than his hilarious obsession with making subs at 60 minutes:

1) PSR and the cartel clubs - they haven't been able to completely hold us down, but it's done enough to significantly impact our squad building. It forces us to make close to zero missteps, which we have somehow come close to doing (at least through 2024/25)

2) PIF - as far as transfer business they've allowed us to spend every possible penny, but they've yet to make the significant commitment to the training ground or stadium (I still think it's coming, but it's definitely been slow). They are ultimately responsible for the lack of leadership at the top this past summer.

3) Eales - I don't want to be too harsh on him given the health issues which may have impacted him in ways we don't fully know, but you can make a pretty long list of marks against him. Notably, he needs to carry some of the blame for not having a better plan in June 2024 and he's directly responsible for Mitchell and how that went down.

 

If I'm being pessimistic the final tally on this season probably looks like a 9th place league finish, Champions League R16, League Cup semifinal, FAC 4th round, and revenues over £400m for the first time. You can create a nice sky is falling scenario where none of last summer's signings come good, multiple players leave, and we waste this summer as well. If that happens it will be a true setback and we'll likely have a new manager sometime in 2027. Or you could zoom out a bit, recognize this very well might be a transitional season, be excited about a summer with a leadership group in place, look forward to some very big games coming up, and put some trust in the man who hasn't really steered us wrong yet.

Great post.

[cubaricho]

22 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

Exactly, it's mental to imagine we should be managing our schedule like Man City do when our squad is nowhere near that level. 

 

Also we are kind of vulnerable because we can't maintain possession like some top teams can. To do that would mean a significant rebuild which we also might not be able to afford. We would be talking about replacing 5 or 6 starters and we would also need attacking ability that could turn that dominant possession into goals in basically the opposite way to what we've done since Howe has been here. We would also then complain about all the low blocks we wouldn’t be able to break down. 

 

Agreed we have bought some players similar to what we already had when some people would have gone another way, but I'd argue that shows we were actively trying to improve our depth so that we could handle those extra games better while keeping our style quite similar. 

 

 

 

 

 

[KingArthur]

4 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

Less minutes too and had an injury layoff. Sesko is better than Woltemade IMO. 

Too early to say, but totally different kind of players. So far Woltemade has had a better season.

 

But there are quite a few flops there in your list. How many of them have improved at ManU?

[TheBrownBottle]

48 minutes ago, duo said:

He's not been backed- simple as

He’s got 10x the net spend of Emery.  He’s been backed pretty handsomely.  Needs to get a tune out of what he’s assembled. 

[timeEd32]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

He’s got 10x the net spend of Emery.  He’s been backed pretty handsomely.  Needs to get a tune out of what he’s assembled. 

 

That's an incredibly disingenuous metric to use considering the starting squads and their use of free transfers / loans with high wages (you can, of course, argue we should have used those more).

 

Wage growth from 2020 - 2024

Aston Villa : £108.8m > £252m

Newcastle: £107m > £219m

 

Their wages remain similarly higher in the latest Deloitte numbers.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, timeEd32 said:

 

That's an incredibly disingenuous metric to use considering the starting squads and their use of free transfers / loans with high wages (you can, of course, argue we should have used those more).

 

Wage growth from 2020 - 2024

Aston Villa : £108.8m > £252m

Newcastle: £107m > £219m

 

Their wages remain similarly higher in the latest Deloitte numbers.

And I think using wages alone is disingenuous - we could’ve blown Villa out of the water on wages without the high transfer spend.  

[TRon]

I wouldn't be going down the wages route when you think of what we are probably paying to some of our signings last summer. 

 

Howe has been backed by the board heavily, by all means you can argue he's not in a position to compete with the cartel, but he's been given as much licence as possible within the PSR framework. We tried to sign his preferred targets, and when they went elsewhere, we signed the next ones down the list. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, TRon said:

I wouldn't be going down the wages route when you think of what we are probably paying to some of our signings last summer. 

 

Howe has been backed by the board heavily, by all means you can argue he's not in a position to compete with the cartel, but he's been given as much licence as possible within the PSR framework. We tried to sign his preferred targets, and when they went elsewhere, we signed the next ones down the list. 

100%.  I’m not seeing the ‘he hasn’t been backed’ logic.  Howe has been backed to the hilt under PSR.  There is a separate argument re how the club could’ve done a better job growing its finances, but everything available has been spent. 
 

I’ve seen the wages defence on here countless times to the point that it’s become a mantra.  Performance = wages matching league position.  Transfer fees just don’t count anymore, despite the fact that some like Elanga or Wissa’s amortised fee will outstrip their wage cost.