Eddie Howe

[NUFC91]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

I agree on your points but what I'm getting at regarding S*nderland is that prior to that game it was met with an attitude that it wasn't the be all end all like it would be for them. A "we are their everything" kind of attitude and now many are displaying the same attitudes that they'd criticise the mackems of. If that fixture wasn't the be all end all we wouldn't be coming out with the remarks we are as a fan base on social media in my opinion. It'd be just a frustrating loss to another mid table side as has been the case for the last couple of years.

 

We can all see and admit performances haven't been as good this year, results by and large haven't been, but to isolate Howe as the issue as others (not your good self) are is simpyl trying to find a quick solution rather than the right solution, in my opinion, of course.

 

 

 

 

Yep probably that's what annoys me it should be the be and end to beat them after the defeat to at their place.

[Danh1]

4 minutes ago, Heron said:

I agree on your points but what I'm getting at regarding S*nderland is that prior to that game it was met with an attitude that it wasn't the be all end all like it would be for them. A "we are their everything" kind of attitude and now many are displaying the same attitudes that they'd criticise the mackems of. If that fixture wasn't the be all end all we wouldn't be coming out with the remarks we are as a fan base on social media in my opinion. It'd be just a frustrating loss to another mid table side as has been the case for the last couple of years.

 

We can all see and admit performances haven't been as good this year, results by and large haven't been, but to isolate Howe as the issue as others (not your good self) are is simpyl trying to find a quick solution rather than the right solution, in my opinion, of course.

 

 

 

The Mackem game for me was more that we had recently went out of the cup, then we got a mauling in Barcelona, so that game against the Mackems was magnified as our season kind of rested on it. We lost and went down to 12th. Felt, and feels that our season is done and dusted. I know we aren’t too far off Europe but our home form is dire and we are too inconsistent. 
 

The manner in which we lost the Derby was oh so familiar. The fifth home game this season we’ve lost late on, the third within a number of weeks against average sides. It was the game that was the final straw for some. I’ll be honest, I lost a lot of faith in Howe and the players that day. Not because of the Derby in isolation. 
 

The fact we’ve let the Mackems beat us twice, hardly showing any fight or class in our performances, is a symptom of our problems and not the overall issue. 
 

As I said yesterday, I’d love Howe to prove me wrong like he did last season, but I cannot see how things improve without him changing things up and without us approaching buying and selling players differently. He seems very stubborn in the way that he works. 
 

I love Howe, what he’s achieved here puts him in the top handful of managers in our history, anyone downplaying his achievements here is a fucking moron. But looking at the future and I have big doubts.
 

 

[Heron]

7 minutes ago, Danh1 said:

The Mackem game for me was more that we had recently went out of the cup, then we got a mauling in Barcelona, so that game against the Mackems was magnified as our season kind of rested on it. We lost and went down to 12th. Felt, and feels that our season is done and dusted. I know we aren’t too far off Europe but our home form is dire and we are too inconsistent. 
 

The manner in which we lost the Derby was oh so familiar. The fifth home game this season we’ve lost late on, the third within a number of weeks against average sides. It was the game that was the final straw for some. I’ll be honest, I lost a lot of faith in Howe and the players that day. Not because of the Derby in isolation. 
 

The fact we’ve let the Mackems beat us twice, hardly showing any fight or class in our performances, is a symptom of our problems and not the overall issue. 
 

As I said yesterday, I’d love Howe to prove me wrong like he did last season, but I cannot see how things improve without him changing things up and without us approaching buying and selling players differently. He seems very stubborn in the way that he works. 
 

I love Howe, what he’s achieved here puts him in the top handful of managers in our history, anyone downplaying his achievements here is a fucking moron. But looking at the future and I have big doubts.
 

 

Howe needs to find different tactical solutions and I feel now is the first time he has been given any chance to do so, but he deserves another pre-season (albeit interrupted by the world cup and doubtless endless speculation again).

 

The transfer thing that everyone seems to hold on to is a tit-for-tat debate that we can all make our own speculation about. Personally, I think Howes hands were absolutely tied and last summer wasn't a result of Howe it was a result of mismanagement from the top down.

 

One thing we can all agree on (I think!) Is that Howe has coached almost every single player in that squad to be better individual players and has got more than the sum the squads parts in his tenure until this season, which as stated above I perceive not to have been his fault. Then I don't think there is much to go at Howe about other than a reluctance to adjust his formation and strategy (occasionally).

 

 

Edited April 12 by Heron

[500bhp]

The thing that pissed me off most at the mackems game was the lack of fight in our players. The mentality of them. They had six booked for fouls and general shithousing, we had only Joelinton and that was for dissent towards the ref. 

 

The result didn't bother me as much. I've seen us lose to them home and away on numerous occasions, but we had no fight and desire that day. Like the players didn't give a shit and had stopped believing in the manager and his methods and coaching team. That's the worry for me, maybe this journey has fizzled out and we need a full reset.

 

We'll have a much better idea at 4pm today! Hopefully we smash them and get into Europe and go again fully refocused next season with Howe.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, 500bhp said:

The thing that pissed me off most at the mackems game was the lack of fight in our players. The mentality of them. They had six booked for fouls and general shithousing, we had only Joelinton and that was for dissent towards the ref. 

 

The result didn't bother me as much. I've seen us lose to them home and away on numerous occasions, but we had no fight and desire that day. Like the players didn't give a shit and had stopped believing in the manager and his methods and coaching team. That's the worry for me, maybe this journey has fizzled out and we need a full reset.

 

We'll have a much better idea at 4pm today! Hopefully we smash them and get into Europe and go again fully refocused next season with Howe.

I don’t really agree with that, but even if it was true I’d say it’s literally the only time you could say it. And it was surrounded by games where we gave everything. So the not believing in Howe thing has absolutely no legs at all IMO.
 

If anything it’s incredible how together we are despite a difficult season and that’s one of the main reasons we should keep the masher. 

[500bhp]

17 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I don’t really agree with that, but even if it was true I’d say it’s literally the only time you could say it. And it was surrounded by games where we gave everything. So the not believing in Howe thing has absolutely no legs at all IMO.
 

If anything it’s incredible how together we are despite a difficult season and that’s one of the main reasons we should keep the masher. 

 

Well I don't agree with you disagreeing with me 😃. (I mean that in the nicest possible way!)

 

Maybe the players do still believe in Howe and execute his plans to perfection. In which case, what is the plan that makes us concede 7 at Barca, 5 at City, 4 at Liverpool, and 3 against a shit load of teams including many home games. And going ahead and still losing. 

 

Maybe I'm being too simplistic but either the players are not following the managers instructions properly or they are and its the instructions that are not working. Either way it's a concern. 

 

We all want the best for the club and I want Howe to do very well these last seven games and prove to the board he's the guy to take us forward against the backdrop of a more squad trading style approach and recruitment. Next season I'll be paying just short of £1000 for my ST so I dont think I'm being unreasonable as a paying fan. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Not following instructions or not executing well is one thing. So is lacking confidence in certain moments and being in bad form.
 

I usually take giving up on the manager or believing in him to mean stopped trying or actively ignoring him. Which IMO they clearly haven’t done. 

[TRon]

13 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Even if this were true, none of this happens in a vacuum. In other words, not having a CEO and DoF in place doesn't just mean that the only other thing that changes is that Howe gets the players he wants, and that's it.

 

Even in a situation where we just go for Howe targets, it also means:

 

a lower chance of getting those players - the people in makeshift CEO and DoF positions aren't experienced in those roles, and potentially don't have the contacts, skills, expediency to pull off the deals that say Ashworth and Staveley could. This is exactly what we saw, with multiple targets missed, particularly strikers.

 

Howe, Nickson and A.Howe's work capacity is compromised, meaning that not only does their effectiveness in their makeshift roles suffer, but their effectiveness in their existing roles suffer. It then impacts whoever else needed to step in for them, and on and on.

 

Those are just the two off the top of my head but they're huge imo. As I've said loads of times before, Howe being put in that position wasn't like some sort of reward that he should be thankful for, it was a poison chalice that was thrust upon him, that he, Nickson and A.Howe did to pull us out of the shit, and that we should if not thank them for (though I personally think we should) at the very least not blame them for, when it was PIF and Reuben's lack of planning that was at fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes all of that is true, but you are right, all of this doesn't happen in a vacuum. It could also be argued that the reason we didn't have a DOF was because Howe clashed with the two we formerly had put in place, and Howe won those battles. The club backed Howe, and I think at that time it was right to go with the man you trust. Stavely leaving also wasn't in a vacuum, she left because we had to sell two highly valued players because we hadn't dealt with PSR effectively enough. 

 

Nothing is strictly black and white here. I don't think either party is blameless, it's just how things panned out. 

[Kid Icarus]

16 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Yes all of that is true, but you are right, all of this doesn't happen in a vacuum. It could also be argued that the reason we didn't have a DOF was because Howe clashed with the two we formerly had put in place, and Howe won those battles. The club backed Howe, and I think at that time it was right to go with the man you trust. Stavely leaving also wasn't in a vacuum, she left because we had to sell two highly valued players because we hadn't dealt with PSR effectively enough. 

 

Nothing is strictly black and white here. I don't think either party is blameless, it's just how things panned out. 

He clashed with Paul Mitchell, but if the multiple reports are true, Mitchell clashed with many more people at the club than just Howe. Maybe you'd accept that if he was a maverick who got results, but he was also shit and did literally nothing as our DoF.

 

There are no reports that Ashworth clashed with Howe, there are however reports that when Ashworth was at Man United, he wanted them to go for Howe rather than Amorim.

 

Staveley leaving might have been necessary, but Eales being on sick leave for a year and us essentially being rudderless at executive level for that amount of time is terrible mismanagement of the club imo, none of that is on anyone below PIF and Reuben.

[TRon]

22 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

He clashed with Paul Mitchell, but if the multiple reports are true, Mitchell clashed with many more people at the club than just Howe. Maybe you'd accept that if he was a maverick who got results, but he was also shit and did literally nothing as our DoF.

 

There are no reports that Ashworth clashed with Howe, there are however reports that when Ashworth was at Man United, he wanted them to go for Howe rather than Amorim.

 

Staveley leaving might have been necessary, but Eales being on sick leave for a year and us essentially being rudderless at executive level for that amount of time is terrible mismanagement of the club imo, none of that is on anyone below PIF and Reuben.

 

But there isn't any argument that PIF or Reuben got things wrong. I criticised them at the time for letting things drift with Eales in charge. But there were definitely stories out there that Ashworth expected more say in the transfer dealings, whether that was true is dependent on who you believe. 

 

But I do think the transfer strategy will change this summer because how we have done things is not sustainable indefinitely. We'll have to sell players earlier than Eddie would like, and we weren't doing that previously. I don't think the club will view last summer as their fault, certainly not the players we signed. Will be interesting to see how we proceed in the transfer market this summer because it looks like there is going to be a change in direction. 

[Kid Icarus]

5 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

But there isn't any argument that PIF or Reuben got things wrong. I criticised them at the time for letting things drift with Eales in charge. But there were definitely stories out there that Ashworth expected more say in the transfer dealings, whether that was true is dependent on who you believe. 

 

But I do think the transfer strategy will change this summer because how we have done things is not sustainable indefinitely. We'll have to sell players earlier than Eddie would like, and we weren't doing that previously. I don't think the club will view last summer as their fault, certainly not the players we signed. Will be interesting to see how we proceed in the transfer market this summer because it looks like there is going to be a change in direction. 

I know the claim is that there's little argument about it, but the reality is that no one talks about it, barely at all, let alone in comparison to the endless criticism and discussion there is around Howe. It's night and day.

 

The PIF thread doesn't get bumped when we lose or one of our signings has a stinker, there's no Twitter movement who focus all of their criticism on PIF's mismanagement last summer, or YouTube channels who focus on them either. Howe's biggest mistake was agreeing to bail them out in the summer imo, because not only has he bailed them out of doing their jobs, he's bailed them out by being the fall guy.

 

I'd need to see the Ashworth stuff tbh, I know both have said in interviews since Ashworth left that they worked well together.

 

I agree that something will change, but I think a big part of it will be mainly because we just have the right people in place now.

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I know the claim is that there's little argument about it, but the reality is that no one talks about it, barely at all, let alone in comparison to the endless criticism and discussion there is around Howe. It's night and day.

 

The PIF thread doesn't get bumped when we lose or one of our signings has a stinker, there's no Twitter movement who focus all of their criticism on PIF's mismanagement last summer, or YouTube channels who focus on them either. Howe's biggest mistake was agreeing to bail them out in the summer imo, because not only has he bailed them out of doing their jobs, he's bailed them out by being the fall guy.

 

I'd need to see the Ashworth stuff tbh, I know both have said in interviews since Ashworth left that they worked well together.

 

I agree that something will change, but I think a big part of it will be mainly because we just have the right people in place now.

 

 

Would definitely have been interesting if Howe had refused to do any deals with a makeshift team. You could argue he should have tbh if he didn't think we could make the deals he wanted. But tbh that's not his style, he is a man of character, I don't think anyone could dispute that. 

[Ronson333]

Why no subs?

[Myleftboot]

That’s why fatigue sets into the squad cos he doesn’t use the subs.

[Weznufc]

He's done here.   

[La Parka]

Game management sucks. For the most part everything else is good. Off the pitch, man management, media he's great. On match day he's far too passive. 

[Mikky]

Just now, Weznufc said:

He's done here.   

Yep - I am not sure what else he can now offer 

[bobbydazzla]

[RS]

Looks like he’s lost 

[Moose]

Nah, I'm out. Sorry Eddie but it can't go on like this.

[La Parka]

Now everyone seeing what's been off all season. Anyone want to call me a cunt again? 

[Danh1]

1 minute ago, La Parka said:

Now everyone seeing what's been off all season. Anyone want to call me a cunt again? 

You must be deluded if you aren’t happy about this mate. 

[Menace]

2 minutes ago, La Parka said:

Now everyone seeing what's been off all season. Anyone want to call me a cunt again? 

 

The poll clearly shows you're not alone in your thoughts 

[Ketsbaia]

Without looking over..... Howe in, right? Yeah?

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

Perfect