Eddie Howe

[Maggies]

I’m Howe out. The two biggest reasons for why it makes sense to replace in the summer:

 

1) his one style of play requires intensity which isn’t possible when playing two games per week.

2) his blind loyalty. E.g. it’s 2026 and Murphy is still starting for us… we had a January transfer window and opted not to sign a player… I don’t think the level of rebuild required aligns with his level of player loyalty.

 

Howe should have the rest of this season. Hopefully a few decent results mean the end of season lap of honour is appreciated. He can then head off and be immortalised as someone who won our first trophy in years. We can close chapter one and move on to whatever comes next.

 

As much as there’ll be an element of risk bringing in someone new - we are currently 14th in the league! 14th! It doesn’t get much worse than that (unless you’re still scarred from the Ashley era and accustomed to mediocrity).

 

I’d been keen to hear any counter arguements to my biggest worries above.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13 by Maggies

[Jonas]

That was a poor response, no response at all in actual fact, to all that time to prepare and to the group being so preciously sensitive about getting flack for losing a derby in limp fashion. 

I expected a naff game and am still taken aback and more disappointed by the lack of response. 

[NUFC_Sam]

I love Howe for what he’s done for the club. He’s massively overachieved in the first 3 and a half seasons but no one is untouchable, certainly not when you look at the trajectory and red flags over the last ~12 months:

 

The tactical rigidity: we must be one of few prem teams to play without a 10 - we don’t even have the profile in the team to use it as an option either. The 433 we’ve played over the last 4 seasons has become stale and so easy to play against. The 451 out of possession has glaring issues between defence/midfield and Eddie seems too stubborn to adapt. Watching Man City press with a front 4 against Arsenal in the cup final was quite depressing knowing we’d never be so tactically fluid. 
 

Recruitment: I find it pretty remarkable that his nephew just so happens to be an industry leading recruiter who works at the same club, directly with/for the first team. Crazy coincidence. Even crazier that he also worked with Eddie at Bournemouth… I’m sure he is best in class, though. 

 

I think it’s clear Howe has far too much control in this area of the club. We’ve definitely signed more hits than misses, but this last summer was horrendous on so many levels and someone needs to take accountability. Why sign a technical number 9 for £60m+ who clearly doesn’t have much pace to play in a side that only wants to play in behind? Then there’s the £110m spent on Wissa and Elanga… and another questionable £40m on a squad player in Ramsey. All round terrible squad planning and pedalling the PSR line is offensive when Eddie has clearly insisted on signing premium PL players. 
 

Then I think there’s the question of how we go to that next level of competing consistently for CL - regardless of whether we performed well this season - would Howe ever be the right person for that job? Looking at how we play, Howe’s very much relied on physicality throughout his time. However, when you look across Europe, the very best sides are still extremely technical. All the issues then sort of merge into one - the tactics, the recruitment, the loyalty/reliance on players like Trippier, Burn, Gordon, Murphy, Joelinton - all of whom I think have solid attributes but nowhere near the ability we need to evolve to the next level. 

 

In such a pivotal summer, we’ve ended up signing another round of bang average athletes. All of which leads back to Howe - a manager with a pedigree of Bournemouth/Burnley. An expert in over delivering with an average side but is he the man to turn us into a possession based, technical side, good enough to consistently compete in the CL? This season shows he’s probably not, which is a shame. 

[Zero]

I genuinely didn’t expect him and the team to play like this yesterday.

 

1. So after such a long break, I think most of us expected Howe to “show something different”. It could be Woltemade back to starting ST, it could be a 4231 or 442 trial, whatever. And, no. Howe decided to go for his plan A again, and to the point that he even chose to start Osula. Guys, that’s his best answer after such a long break - go and reinforce plan A again.

 

I didn’t like it when I saw the team sheet. But okay, that’s against Palace that has nothing to play for in the league. If we went for maximum pressure and intensity we might get the win. And…

 

2. The team did press. The players tried their best to act according to the game plan. Osula even nicked a gaol. But be honest to yourself, is this level

of performance what you would expect? our “best answer”? No. Simply not good enough. Even before the collapse, we were already lucky to hold on the lead. Our plan A, Howe’s best effort, wasn’t that effective. I think that’s a very fair comment. And that’s against the Palace with their best players sitting on the bench.

 

3. And then Mateta.co subbed in. We collapsed AS USUAL. Was I surprised? No. Were you surprised? Most likely no as well. 
 

 

I was furious after the derby defeat. I didn’t feel the anger after this game. Probably I am just waiting for the inevitable end to this era.

[Zero]

4 hours ago, NUFC_Sam said:

I love Howe for what he’s done for the club. He’s massively overachieved in the first 3 and a half seasons but no one is untouchable, certainly not when you look at the trajectory and red flags over the last ~12 months:

 

The tactical rigidity: we must be one of few prem teams to play without a 10 - we don’t even have the profile in the team to use it as an option either. The 433 we’ve played over the last 4 seasons has become stale and so easy to play against. The 451 out of possession has glaring issues between defence/midfield and Eddie seems too stubborn to adapt. Watching Man City press with a front 4 against Arsenal in the cup final was quite depressing knowing we’d never be so tactically fluid. 
 

Recruitment: I find it pretty remarkable that his nephew just so happens to be an industry leading recruiter who works at the same club, directly with/for the first team. Crazy coincidence. Even crazier that he also worked with Eddie at Bournemouth… I’m sure he is best in class, though. 

 

I think it’s clear Howe has far too much control in this area of the club. We’ve definitely signed more hits than misses, but this last summer was horrendous on so many levels and someone needs to take accountability. Why sign a technical number 9 for £60m+ who clearly doesn’t have much pace to play in a side that only wants to play in behind? Then there’s the £110m spent on Wissa and Elanga… and another questionable £40m on a squad player in Ramsey. All round terrible squad planning and pedalling the PSR line is offensive when Eddie has clearly insisted on signing premium PL players. 
 

Then I think there’s the question of how we go to that next level of competing consistently for CL - regardless of whether we performed well this season - would Howe ever be the right person for that job? Looking at how we play, Howe’s very much relied on physicality throughout his time. However, when you look across Europe, the very best sides are still extremely technical. All the issues then sort of merge into one - the tactics, the recruitment, the loyalty/reliance on players like Trippier, Burn, Gordon, Murphy, Joelinton - all of whom I think have solid attributes but nowhere near the ability we need to evolve to the next level. 

 

In such a pivotal summer, we’ve ended up signing another round of bang average athletes. All of which leads back to Howe - a manager with a pedigree of Bournemouth/Burnley. An expert in over delivering with an average side but is he the man to turn us into a possession based, technical side, good enough to consistently compete in the CL? This season shows he’s probably not, which is a shame. 

 

I find it fucking odd that we got a technical no.9 and then decided to throw him to the rubbish bin, when we are shouting for a more possession based, technical side. Seriously? say we sign another technical player this coming summer. Do you think he can fit into our current style / tactics? 
 

So if the answer is no, then we better don’t sign these type of players and go back to athletes. Yes. Our “plan A”. 
 

and would another athletes improve us?

 

I don’t fucking know. The whole logic looks flawed to me.

[AngelofTheFourth]

The best season we have had under Howe have been out of Europe. Yo-yoing in and out of the UCL has meant our Coefficient ranking is 73rd which is why we keep getting millions less than other teams in the ucl even if we perform better than them. Villa are 22nd and could very well pass Man Uniteds Coefficient depending on how well they do in europa. Also bloody West Ham have a coffecient way above ours. If we want to build our profile we need to be much much better in Europe and be participating every season in a European competition. 

 

If Howe isn't able to do it then he may need to go.

[500bhp]

I'm not as knowledgeable as others on here of the situations at other PL teams but I've been trying to think of examples where a club has had a shit league campaign and dropped 8-10 positions like we have but not sacked the manager at the end of the season. Then the following season he's got them back up towards the top of the league? 

 

Can't think of any examples**, probably because most ambitions clubs sack the manager after falling 8-10 league places.

 

** I think Moyes at Everton about 15 years ago may have done this. 

[Ben]

1 hour ago, Zero said:

 

I find it fucking odd that we got a technical no.9 and then decided to throw him to the rubbish bin, when we are shouting for a more possession based, technical side. Seriously? say we sign another technical player this coming summer. Do you think he can fit into our current style / tactics? 
 

So if the answer is no, then we better don’t sign these type of players and go back to athletes. Yes. Our “plan A”. 
 

and would another athletes improve us?

 

I don’t fucking know. The whole logic looks flawed to me.

 

Didn't we really push for Strand Larsen in the summer ? He looked dog shit yesterday 

[KaKa]

The Wissa signing at his age and price and with how badly it has gone is going to be a killer for Howe.

 

The Woltemade club record signing who looks completely unsuited to how the manager wants to play, with no viable plan to fit him into the side or accommodate him with a change in tactics, will not be far behind as a disaster either.

 

It's hard to believe  how catastrophic these two singings have been, both in different ways. If the rest of the season goes like yesterday did, Howe is going to be under immense pressure, and he likely will not survive.

 

Crazy to think we would have been better off insisting on Darwin Nunez on loan as part of the Isak negotiations, or getting Nicolas Jackson in on loan with an option like Bayern did. 

[Holloway]

There's a massive decision to be made this summer and I'd hate to be making it. What's clear to me is that the era of the cup winning squad is over, the teams that have been put out for the majority of the season have failed to deliver the plan in an alarming fashion. The awful stat of the lost games from winning positions signifies the most feeble of mindsets,it's like a subconscious thing where if we don't gain a significant lead then we are quickly in the process of conceding dominance that ultimately ends in defeat.

There's a clear out needed and it needs to be ruthless, the big question whether to go all in on Eddie to see him possibly repeat the process or to turn to another direction.

Up to now I've been 100% in favour of giving him another season, but with how much the quotes around from his demise at Bournemouth are mirroring this season, coupled with the simply dreadful responses the team have offered up recently,the alarm bells are ringing for me.

The counter argument is the ridiculously inept summer business and frankly fucking useless performance by the club behind the scenes has heaped a hell of a lot on his plate.Plus, I love and respect the man.

 

Long winded for fence sitting, I know .

[Kid Icarus]

23 minutes ago, 500bhp said:

I'm not as knowledgeable as others on here of the situations at other PL teams but I've been trying to think of examples where a club has had a shit league campaign and dropped 8-10 positions like we have but not sacked the manager at the end of the season. Then the following season he's got them back up towards the top of the league? 

 

Can't think of any examples**, probably because most ambitions clubs sack the manager after falling 8-10 league places.

 

** I think Moyes at Everton about 15 years ago may have done this. 

On scale of points rather than position you only need to look at Guardiola and Klopp in their transition seasons.

 

Man City went from 91 points in 1st to 71 points in 3rd (-20 points), Liverpool went from 92 points in 2nd to 69 points in 5th (-23 points)

 

We're looking at a similar fall off, from 66 points to I dunno, ~50 odd points.

 

These are clubs with more or less unlimited resources with managers who are seen as the best around.

 

Man City spent £500m in that January just to ensure Champions League, they now look like having a decent chance of winning the league.

 

Liverpool spent £145m in the summer after they finished 5th and bounced back to 82 points in 3rd, setting them up to 84 points in 1st the following season under Slot.

 

 

Edited April 13 by Kid Icarus

[Whitley mag]

1 hour ago, Zero said:

 

I find it fucking odd that we got a technical no.9 and then decided to throw him to the rubbish bin, when we are shouting for a more possession based, technical side. Seriously? say we sign another technical player this coming summer. Do you think he can fit into our current style / tactics? 
 

So if the answer is no, then we better don’t sign these type of players and go back to athletes. Yes. Our “plan A”. 
 

and would another athletes improve us?

 

I don’t fucking know. The whole logic looks flawed to me.

This is the crux for me, if Wilson provides Howe with young technical players from Europe, what happens to them and does Howe want them going off what he said on Friday?

I absolutely get the loyalty angle from people in here who think he should get next season, but does everything align with him remaining in terms of recruitment? I’m not sure, so many questions now and binning off one of Europe’s top striker prospects because he’s not quick and doesn’t press, sends out a worrying one dimensional outlook.

 

Even Pep transformed his style to accommodate Haaland, I just see no evolution under Howe and think he’ll simply double down on the 4-3-3 next season with less fixtures.

 

He’s a great ambassador and dignified bloke, but it all looks and sounds very stale under him right now.

 

 

 

Edited April 13 by Whitley mag

[PauloGeordio]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

The Wissa signing at his age and price and with how badly it has gone is going to be a killer for Howe.

 

The Woltemade club record signing who looks completely unsuited to how the manager wants to play, with no viable plan to fit him into the side or accommodate him with a change in tactics, will not be far behind as a disaster either.

 

It's hard to believe  how catastrophic these two singings have been, both in different ways. If the rest of the season goes like yesterday did, Howe is going to be under immense pressure, and he likely will not survive.

 

Crazy to think we would have been better off insisting on Darwin Nunez on loan as part of the Isak negotiations, or getting Nicolas Jackson in on loan with an option like Bayern did. 

I would have welcomed Jackson at the time (character questionable allegedly but would have suited our system)

[Holmesy]

What he's trying to do isn't working and hasn't all season. Some of the excuses people are putting forward for this just don't wash - his job is to get our 11 players to beat the opposition's (often inferior) 11 players and we are routinely being out coached, out-worked and out-fought. Blaming a summer recruitment campaign that happened 32 games ago for our £700m squad, littered with internationals, getting convincingly turned over by inferior opposition is fanciful at best.

You either believe he will get it right based on what he has done in the past or you think he won't because he has hit a ceiling. Either way time will tell. But I think it's obvious to everyone now that him getting it right again requires a change of approach, new ideas, and ideally a change of coaching staff - some of these players have heard the same voices and the same ideas for 4.5 years.

I've been critical for a while now but I didn't expect that over the weekend. I thought we'd see a reaction but it was just more of the same. Plan A doesn't work, and the response is just more of plan A - you can't help but ask questions. 

I just feel complete apathy though - not angry, not disappointed, just acceptance born out of a season where the biggest thing to celebrate has been 3 good halves against Barcelona before getting schooled.

If I was the board I would want assurances that Eddie is prepared to go in a different direction. If he is completely wedded to his plan A approach, his existing coaching team and his current playbook, I think we have to make a change. As sad as it is to say.

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, PauloGeordio said:

I would have welcomed Jackson at the time (character questionable allegedly but would have suited our system)

What system is that?  

 

I don't see any system. 

[PauloGeordio]

2 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

What he's trying to do isn't working and hasn't all season. Some of the excuses people are putting forward for this just don't wash - his job is to get our 11 players to beat the opposition's (often inferior) 11 players and we are routinely being out coached, out-worked and out-fought. Blaming a summer recruitment campaign that happened 32 games ago for our £700m squad, littered with internationals, getting convincingly turned over by inferior opposition is fanciful at best.

You either believe he will get it right based on what he has done in the past or you think he won't because he has hit a ceiling. Either way time will tell. But I think it's obvious to everyone now that him getting it right again requires a change of approach, new ideas, and ideally a change of coaching staff - some of these players have heard the same voices and the same ideas for 4.5 years.

I've been critical for a while now but I didn't expect that over the weekend. I thought we'd see a reaction but it was just more of the same. Plan A doesn't work, and the response is just more of plan A - you can't help but ask questions. 

I just feel complete apathy though - not angry, not disappointed, just acceptance born out of a season where the biggest thing to celebrate has been 3 good halves against Barcelona before getting schooled.

If I was the board I would want assurances that Eddie is prepared to go in a different direction. If he is completely wedded to his plan A approach, his existing coaching team and his current playbook, I think we have to make a change. As sad as it is to say.

He is.

[PauloGeordio]

Just now, r0cafella said:

What system is that?  

 

I don't see any system. 

Fair point  

[Zero]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

The Wissa signing at his age and price and with how badly it has gone is going to be a killer for Howe.

 

The Woltemade club record signing who looks completely unsuited to how the manager wants to play, with no viable plan to fit him into the side or accommodate him with a change in tactics, will not be far behind as a disaster either.

 

It's hard to believe  how catastrophic these two singings have been, both in different ways. If the rest of the season goes like yesterday did, Howe is going to be under immense pressure, and he likely will not survive.

 

Crazy to think we would have been better off insisting on Darwin Nunez on loan as part of the Isak negotiations, or getting Nicolas Jackson in on loan with an option like Bayern did. 

and I don’t agree with Howe’s approach - I know Woltemade is not a good fit and Wissa form has been poor but ultimately you need them to click in order to bring out the best of our squad. I would rather Howe to keep playing Wissa till he clicked, rather than asking Gordon to do the pressing job.

 

try to think in PIFs perspective - Howe is wasting 120m striker on the bench. And in return, did we get more points? No.

 

Yes you can say the signings are poor. But still Howe should have handle it better. 
 

did everyone here realize we are shouting for a new ST just because we need to fit Howe’s style? PIF could just hire a new head coach and the ST problem might already be solved.

 

He is a lot closer to the axe than some of you guys think

[Decky]

The points drop off isn't the major concern for me, shit happens and you've bad seasons, every team has them. It's more the manner of our defeats, dropping something like 25 points from leading positions and the players looking totally uninterested in so many games.

 

They're not playing anywhere near the standard that we've seen Howe implement in previous seasons so something is going on and I don't know how Eddie fixes it but I'd rather give him a chance than take a punt on someone else. 

[Chicken Dancer]

Aye if we were unlucky in most games and just not getting the rub of the green you’d know the results were on the horizon. 
 

Even when we’ve won we’ve either been fortunate or just about good enough, with the exception of 1 or 2 games. 
 

Been shite all year, writing was on the wall in September imo. Nothings really changed since then. In fact we may have regressed even more. 
 

£250m that we largely wasted last summer will go down as a huge sliding doors moment in the clubs (near) future I reckon. It was a real chance to bridge the gap to the next lot of teams, yet here we are with 6 games left and we’ve got £220m of that window sat on the bench  

[Pablo]

Genuinely, I’m staggered by some takes I’ve read in recent weeks but more so in the last day. I’ll be honest, I’m fed up of this season and of Eddie’s continuing plan A. It’s a total disaster and we have taken a big step backwards in footballing terms. But, I’m not really surprised about what’s happening on the pitch. I remember commenting last season that we were a mid table team with an elite striker. There has been little between us and the Brightons and Bournmouths of the league for 2 seasons now, and this season it’s levelled out a bit. We have a small underperformance this year, compared to the heights of the past few seasons overperformance.

 

Our squad is stale, and a number of our players seem to have downed tools. I think the Isak sale and the way we couldn’t attract our top targets last season has resulted in the players realising we aren’t a Chelsea or Man City project. I strongly suspect a number of players have had their heads turned and are looking for an escape route in the summer. Looking at the recent performances of a couple of our star players, Gordon and Tino in particular aren’t at the races, making mistakes not putting in 100%. An eye on the World Cup and a summer move. With their levels dropping it affects other players. I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room is somewhat split. We might say players don’t care, but they do. It’s their life, reputation, finances and career.

 

FFP, SCR whatever you want to call it has done its job. We haven’t had a normal or decent transfer window since Dan Ashworth left. That’s damning on everyone at the club. From Junior Scout to owner. We need 2 players in every transfer window to keep it fresh and provide growth. The past summer business was an unmitigated disaster, and it’s tough to come back from it, but we can. Ramsey will come good, Elanga has a chance still. I’m worried about the striker situation though and that’s going to need a bit of luck. I was worried with every signing we made, as I have wanted more technical players through the team, but we have what we have.

 

the squad building has been horrible, we basically need a new 11 as we need to cover every position as players who should have been traded 2 or 3 years ago remain on our books with little value. The director of football position has caused this, and I admit Eddie is probably somewhat at fault. We needed to trade Joelinton 2 or 3 summers ago, same with Joe Willock, Emile Kraft and others. This summer is an opportunity to have a lot of turnover and get some money for players who don’t have a long term future at the club. But this means we face at least one if not 2 more seasons of transition. The bed setters and the social media darlings need to accept we may stand still before we move forwards again.

 

it’s going to hurt, but Sunderland are likely going to finish above us this season. It’s a blip, form is temporary but class is permanent. Personally I don’t care, I look at the bigger picture and where we are still heading, albeit much more slowly than I hoped. Spurs getting relegated could be massive for us, as having 5 teams above us in the pecking order rather than 6 is a massive boost. The Chelsea situation is dire and they can be reigned in with good club management. The commercial income situation continues to improve.

 

for me it’s of paramount importance that we remain a stable club. Swapping managers may provide short term impetus, but long term it’s unlikely we can attract a better manager than Eddie. The clubs stated goal is now for 2030 so I’m willing to give it a bit longer, get behind them all, and I am confident that we will continue a slow but steady trajectory upwards.

 

I’m not a happy clapper, never have been, but unless we can attract Pep or Emery in the summer I’m not prepared to give up what we’ve got. Eddie is a club legend and deserves my support for the 26/27 season.

[Pablo]

Finally, we must have lost 15 points from individual player errors this season, and poor refereeing. I really don’t see how that is Eddie Howe fault, he must be tearing his heart out. A different manager in the dug out can’t do anything about the constant clangers.

[Nucasol]

21 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

What system is that?  

 

I don't see any system. 

4:3: fucking 3.

 

Press, press, press. Obtain possession.

 

Shit yourself when you get the ball and pass sideways, backwards and then hoof it over a full back. Lose possession.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Pablo said:

Finally, we must have lost 15 points from individual player errors this season, and poor refereeing. I really don’t see how that is Eddie Howe fault, he must be tearing his heart out. A different manager in the dug out can’t do anything about the constant clangers.

Unfortunately for Eddie it's a result business plus most of those players he bought and selected. Having watched us this season we absolutely deserve to be 14th like. 

 

The games in the league on the whole have been pretty dire. 

[JoeyBartoon]

Howe now has the benefit of full weeks on the training ground with the squad, but it’s hard to see that making much of a difference at this stage. Too many players look mentally checked out, and that’s not something extra training sessions alone can fix.
 

At this point, it probably feels like the right time for him to part ways with the club. Right now, he doesn’t seem to have the answers to the issues we’re facing. 

 

I’ve also never been entirely comfortable with the level of control he appears to have taken on. It feels as though he’s surrounded himself with people who won’t challenge him enough, and the appointment of Ross Wilson, given his close ties to Howe, only added to those concerns.

 

There’s growing evidence that he’s too loyal to certain players. Decisions like making Murphy captain, let alone starting him, are hard to justify. I remember seeing a Bournemouth fan say loyalty is his weakness. It would be hard to argue with that. 

 

There’s no doubt Eddie Howe is a talented manager, and will go on to do very well elsewhere, but it does feel like his time here has run its course. I just hope it doesn’t turn nasty towards him