Eddie Howe

[Rich]

To build on that, I’m a sad cunt who’s usually in early to observe the warmup from our end, and Jesus Christ it was a poor one yesterday in terms of attitude and technical ability.

 

It begs the question, why are we still doing the exact same drills we’ve done for 3+ years now? It can’t be the most engaging thing for the players, though I appreciate there’s probably a bigger picture ‘familiarity of routine’ thing at play.

 

Bournemouth had one of the weirdest pre-match routines I’ve seen in terms of the drills, but didn’t seem to do them any harm.

 

EDIT: Worth adding that it could’ve been because of the lack of leaders in the XI, as I was only really focusing on the starter drills. When there’s no Trippier, Burn, Schär, Bruno, Joelinton, or dare I say Murphy, then there’s nobody setting a bar and demanding that others don’t just go through the motions.

[Guybrush]

3 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

No, you don't become a bad manager overnight but you can become a stale one over the course of a few years, and that's the point at which you change things (as Fergie did, as Pep does etc.). When you see the players are no longer responding to your coaching and ideas, and your gameplan is no longer working, you do something different to re-engage them and reverse the slide. But that's evidently not Eddie's way.
If he goes away, has another sabatical and works on a new playbook, i've no doubt he would come back and do wonders again somewhere else. But while he is here, we will play the playbook he developed over 4.5 years ago, with minor tweaks, and that's your lot.
 

 

I want Eddie to stay, but there is something in that. I remember the interview where he said there's no plan B, we just need to do plan A right. I wonder if he's still holding out for a realisation of his 'plan A'. 

 

I was at the match yesterday, and I just couldn't see a plan at all. Whether that is down to Eddie or the players or both is open to interpretation. 

 

It really seemed like the players didn't have a game plan they were willing to follow. I think the team unity is under threat as differing individual motivations take over e.g world Cup, transfers away, being on the beach, nothing to play for etc, so a coherent plan can't be executed.

 

Maybe that's too soft on Eddie, but the man won a trophy for us and gave us memorable cup, Premier and champions league runs, so I still have time for the man.

 

Something needs to change though, there's no doubt about that. 

[Holmesy]

7 minutes ago, Guybrush said:

 

I want Eddie to stay, but there is something in that. I remember the interview where he said there's no plan B, we just need to do plan A right. I wonder if he's still holding out for a realisation of his 'plan A'. 

 

I was at the match yesterday, and I just couldn't see a plan at all. Whether that is down to Eddie or the players or both is open to interpretation. 

 

It really seemed like the players didn't have a game plan they were willing to follow. I think the team unity is under threat as differing individual motivations take over e.g world Cup, transfers away, being on the beach, nothing to play for etc, so a coherent plan can't be executed.

 

Maybe that's too soft on Eddie, but the man won a trophy for us and gave us memorable cup, Premier and champions league runs, so I still have time for the man.

 

Something needs to change though, there's no doubt about that. 

I think we all do but ultimately we're fans of the club, not the manager. He'll always be a hero here but what's best for the football club is the only thing that matters, and I don't think it's him any more.

[Stuy_O]

2 hours ago, RS said:

I’ll bet some of the folk wanting Howe out were also saying give Bruce a chance. 

I’ll bet you’re incorrect 

[Holloway]

Eddie reiterated in the presser the other day that the style wouldn't be deviated from in any obvious form. He said we'd never adopt sideways or backwards passing. But we do love the horseshoe ( he didn't say that last bit)

[Yorkie]

"PSR doesn't stop us playing well" is obviously true to a certain extent, in that PSR doesn't directly cause the maddening behaviours delivered by players and manager every week. 

 

However, it's a meaningless juxtaposition of the issues, and at worst it's a strawman argument in the Howe in/Howe out skirmish. PSR facilitated the Isak saga and prevented us from building on our amazing season, which led to an up-and-down first half of this season, which led to a dismal second half of the season, which appears to have led to an absolutely disastrous end to the season. It has completely ruptured 'The Project' and created the conditions for our regression. 

 

Howe's job was to navigate a way through the choppy waters and, at the very least, retain our competitive position in the top half of the table. That should have been achievable regardless of all the incredibly influential external factors, I think, and if he has to pay for that failure with his job then I reluctantly accept the fact (equally as I would accept him being given another go). 

 

But you really cannot play down the impact the financial structures have had on our season and, potentially, our entire existence in this division. We might have to get used to being a cup team.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Holloway said:

Eddie reiterated in the presser the other day that the style wouldn't be deviated from in any obvious form. He said we'd never adopt sideways or backwards passing. But we do love the horseshoe ( he didn't say that last bit)

There was a league cup game where we actually tried to play through a team. We never try that in the PL or any slice of it. 

[Pilko]

Was thinking this morning that maybe some of the lads are bored of being told to run all over the opposition every game.

 

I guess when it's working well and we're winning games you don't question it, but when we've had a shitter of a season like this some of them will stop and think "surely there's more we can be doing than just running and pressing".

 

I wish one of the journalists would really press him on this and ask him if he is still here in the summer, will he look for some more technically minded players? Because if the honest answer is no, I'm petrified of the sort of players he'll go and shell out on.

[Guybrush]

Aye, we need more technical players but we also need more leaders. I think Tripps will be a huge miss. He made a difference when he came on, and he's so assured with the refs. We need more of that. 

[Holloway]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

There was a league cup game where we actually tried to play through a team. We never try that in the PL or any slice of it. 

We miss Schar in this respect and Bruno is always probing but it generally goes to our too deep wide men,who are less than productive there 

[Pilko]

7 minutes ago, Holloway said:

Eddie reiterated in the presser the other day that the style wouldn't be deviated from in any obvious form. He said we'd never adopt sideways or backwards passing. But we do love the horseshoe ( he didn't say that last bit)

 

He's talking in extremes there. I don't think any of us want a Brendan's Swansea, "but we won the passing" type of team that just pass round their own half for the sake of it.

 

But being able to retain the ball for a few minutes (particularly after scoring a goal or late in a game) or having the technical ability in the team for every game to not turn into a basketball match that we inevitably fall on the wrong side of would have probably seen us sitting about 15+ points better off and looking forward to Europe again next season.

 

I've come to the conclusion that he has absolutely no interest in playing good football and he has a dislike, distrust or whatever of technically gifted players, unless they're a runner and a warrior too. We're basically lucky Bruno ticks both boxes or we'd have nothing of the sort and might even be in the relegation places this season without his intervention.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Pilko

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Pilko said:

Was thinking this morning that maybe some of the lads are bored of being told to run all over the opposition every game.

 

I guess when it's working well and we're winning games you don't question it, but when we've had a shitter of a season like this some of them will stop and think "surely there's more we can be doing than just running and pressing".

 

I wish one of the journalists would really press him on this and ask him if he is still here in the summer, will he look for some more technically minded players? Because if the honest answer is no, I'm petrified of the sort of players he'll go and shell out on.

I’ve said it before but I think that Barca game was a turning point.  
 

It was the most naive tactical performance I’ve ever seen from an English club at the Camp Nou.  Was it Dan Burn pressing Yamal deep in the Barca half. WTF was that? Thats how a leader loses his strongest generals.  We’ve barely seen Burn since - maybe he said something. I think he lost some hearts and minds that night 

[Mole]

I am going to be honest, I have been waiting all season for any signs of a potential turnaround and it's never happened. I noticed the same mistakes happening every single week and I felt this way in like October, it was something I personally noticed super quickly. I think he definitely has tried to change things on multiple occasions, but after those repeated attempts have failed I think either he has run out of ideas with this group or the group stopped really listening. I genuinely do not think the problems I have seen all season are as simple as - It's really physically taxing to play all these games and it will be okay next season with just the League and hopefully a more positive summer.

 

Usually I would say, yep time to move on. But my instinct has told me that considering the circumstance of the summer and what the man achieved prior to the farce of the summer that he deserved a chance to go into next season, I still kind of believe that but as each week passes it becomes harder and harder to see the evidence behind any potential turnaround. Maybe it's like some of you have said, this is a very emotionally taxing job and there's a reason most people don't stay at a club for 5+ years and he's just coming to the end of his cycle here and needs a break.

[La Parka]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

I’ve said it before but I think that Barca game was a turning point.  
 

It was the most naive tactical performance I’ve ever seen from an English club at the Camp Nou.  Was it Dan Burn pressing Yamal deep in the Barca half. WTF was that? Thats how a leader loses his strongest generals.  We’ve barely seen Burn since - maybe he said something. I think he lost some hearts and minds that night 

Exactly - he's not using his resources correctly. Having trips and Dan burn all the way up the pitch has cost us countless goals. 

[KaKa]

I just never get the impression that the players are given enough direction of how to create overloads or mismatches that can be exploited. All feels very random, freestyle and chaotic.

 

We don't seem to have any obvious patterns of play in build up or in the final third. It's awful.

[Gawalls]

39 minutes ago, OverThere said:

Hmm. He will? He spent a boat load on shite last summer so the jury is out on that one 

And if he buys crap and it goes wrong again don't people will blame anyone but him "the negotiations were crap", "the scouts were given cheap binoculars so couldn't see the players properly" etc

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, Pilko said:

 

He's talking in extremes there. I don't think any of us want a Brendan's Swansea, "but we won the passing" type of team that just pass round their own half for the sake of it.

 

But being able to retain the ball for a few minutes (particularly after scoring a goal or late in a game) or having the technical ability in the team for every game to not turn into a basketball match that we inevitably fall on the wrong side of would have probably seen us sitting about 15+ points better off and looking forward to Europe again next season.

 

I've come to the conclusion that he has absolutely no interest in playing good football and he has a dislike, distrust or whatever of technically gifted players, unless they're a runner and a warrior too. We're basically lucky Bruno ticks both boxes or we'd have nothing of the sort and might even be in the relegation places this season without his intervention.

 

 

 

This is my issue with him.  How he views the game.  He doesn’t want to play football. 

[TheBrownBottle]

44 minutes ago, Holloway said:

This is quite telling, you don't pick this stuff up on tv. Listen to the match goers (not the half spannered ones)

100% agree - you don’t see the match in the same way on TV.  

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

I just never get the impression that the players are given enough direction of how to create overloads or mismatches that can be exploited. All feels very random, freestyle and chaotic.

 

We don't seem to have any obvious patterns of play in build up or in the final third. It's awful.

Agreed. I think all of our existing patterns of play are player devised - natural combinations.  Because when the individuals drop out the moves stop happening. 
 

Schar to Joelinton in behind. Never attempted when one is missing.  
 

Trippier Bruno Almiron. That wasn’t training pitch.  That’s just 2 passers and 1 mover figuring something out. 
 

You take out natural passers and movers, Howe isn’t giving any new direction.  

[Infinitely Content]

6 minutes ago, KaKa said:

I just never get the impression that the players are given enough direction of how to create overloads or mismatches that can be exploited. All feels very random, freestyle and chaotic.

 

We don't seem to have any obvious patterns of play in build up or in the final third. It's awful.

It's really the key issue for me, which if solved has an enormously positive knock-on effect. Having more obvious patterns of play in build up and attack instills confidence, unsettles the opposition, relieves the defence, lessens the chance of losing the ball cheaply, preserves energy and allows space for the players to start expressing themselves. It's the biggest failing of Howe's coaching this season imo.

That said, I know he can coach those patterns of play, we've seen it and they were devastatingly effective and quite creative too. 

[Collage]

The intense, pressing, attacking game we've seen in Eddie's initial seasons here is "good football" for me. And there's nothing that says you can't play that way with technically gifted players. Also, it's very much possible to play boring, turgid football with technically gifted players. Look at Mourinho's teams through the years for example.

[Holloway]

13 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

100% agree - you don’t see the match in the same way on TV.  

Mind you I'm normally about 5 pints deep before the action starts when I do attend, so you won't get the most tactical analysis out of me 😵‍💫

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Collage said:

The intense, pressing, attacking game we've seen in Eddie's initial seasons here is "good football" for me. And there's nothing that says you can't play that way with technically gifted players. Also, it's very much possible to play boring, turgid football with technically gifted players. Look at Mourinho's teams through the years for example.

We don’t have technically gifted players though. He does seem to avoid them too. 

[Infinitely Content]

Even something quite basic like this, we just haven't seen this season. Longstaff would make that run continuously, which leaves Trippier with so much space to deliver a good cross and gives Almiron space in a dangerous position to either shoot or look for a pass onto goal. 

So often because of our aimless final third and build up play, we end up with players in each others way, not creating good angles, no real movement and it just looks like a haphazard mess.
 

 

 

Edited April 19 by Infinitely Content

[Bishops Finger]

13 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The Ferguson example isn’t a good one at all, though - it effectively is from a previous era, when Man Utd’s annual turnover was less than they pay salary for a midfielder.  It isn’t ’a modern day example’ - Ferguson would’ve been sacked long before 90/91 in the modern era.  Ferguson’s previous track record also dwarfed someone like Howe’s - the Scottish top flight was a much higher standard back then, winning two titles and European trophy (beating R Madrid in the final) is just light years away from Howe (not a criticism of Howe, but there seems to be a lot of assumptions that Howe is on that level.  He patently isn’t). 
 

Howe’s transfers and the team’s performances - his responsibility - are liable to cost the club a lot of money (it isn’t melodramatic to say hundreds of millions).  He’s had far more rope than most would have.   He’s been given a shit hand by the owners, whose absenteeism has allowed this shit show to occur.  But the players he signed and has failed to draft into his side remains his responsibility - they may not have been his first choices, but he signed three of the four most expensive players’ in the club’s history last summer, and this isn’t good enough.  

The players he signed were his 4th and fifth choices though. He wanted Ekitike, then Pedro, then Delap and had to settle for Woltemade and Wisse. And I seem to remember a lot on here saying we should just pay what Brentford want for Wissa when we were trying to get the best deal. He was on good form when we signed him. Got injured and was out for ages and it's Howes fault all of a sudden he come back shit. I wasn't happy with the signing anyway we had to get someone in.

It can't be all of a sudden Howe has become a shit coach. He had us playing well above our norm a couple of seasons ago,  and look what he done for players like Jolinton, remember how shit he was under Bruce. 

I can't understand why the team are all playing absolute shit now, but like I say, Howe hasn't all of a sudden become a shit manager. I think he deserves another season and hopefully we have a better transfer market this time around