Eddie Howe

[mouldy_uk]

1 hour ago, Superbmac said:

Our phones have turned us into brats

Absolutely.
 

Hate that any sensible debate on places like YouTube often gets turned into a ‘Person A gets OWNED by Person B…’., video where they feel the need to declare a winner. 

[Keegans Export]

9 minutes ago, Nine said:

There are definitely circumstances here, the Barca/Sunderland game is unfortunately where we went off a cliff but before that we were still

well within a European spot shout again. 

Technically yes, but we've actually only spent two weeks out of 34 in 8th or higher. We've only spent 7 of those 34 weeks in the top half.

 

We were within range of Europe but it was alongside a number of clubs and we've consistently ended up towards the bottom of that group. 

 

The fact that we've responded so dismally to those defeats is much more of a negative than a positive in my opinion. 

[PeepShow4life]

8 hours ago, Monters said:

c) be a sanctimonious prick trying to ridicule other posters and de value women? 

Most of the personal insults on here are from people supporting Howe towards those who want him out.

[Kid Icarus]

Citation needed

[Wallsendmag]

I'm not having a go at Howe for yesterday like. Thought we did ok even if it was against a very under par Arsenal team. I just don't think he's the man to lead us into next season based on what I've watched week in, week out this season.

 

Realistically we aren't going to be able to bring in 8 or 9 players and ship out the same amount. It's likely to be 3 or 4 maximum and probably sell to buy as well so I expect more of the same to come.

 

It's also becoming increasingly obvious that Howe only really has one way of playing. Either that or he's the most stubborn manager out there. Problem is that even last season the signs were that that other coached had worked out how to play against him. Coaches of smaller clubs with far less resources could come to SJP and do a number on us. It's happened on a far greater scale this season and we find ourselves where we are around the bottom echelons of the table. It's a league that evolves quickly. Coaches change, systems change, ways of playing change.

 

We just seem to keep doing the same thing week after week and because of that we are getting left behind.

[Nucasol]

9 minutes ago, PeepShow4life said:

Most of the personal insults on here are from people supporting Howe towards those who want him out.

I’m on the fence but some of the incredulity from some of his most staunch defenders towards people questioning 9 defeats in 12 would make a North Korean blush for ostriching.

[Abacus]

Yesterday I mainly wanted to see an improvement and a bit of fight. I think we got that - it's a disappointing defeat but on another day we come away with a draw, and largely down to our finishing.

 

I want to see more time with Wolt up front, probably in combination with Wissa or Osula. That said, Osula had been on a bit of a scoring run, so it would maybe have been harsh to drop him - and he did nearly race through early on. 

 

So, in isolation this game doesn't much affect my view of Howe, except that it looks like the players are still playing for him. As usual it's been the clinical finishing that has let us down.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Abacus

[Nucasol]

1 minute ago, Abacus said:

Yesterday I mainly wanted to see an improvement and a bit of fight. I think we got that - it's a disappointing defeat but on another day we come away with a draw, and largely down to our finishing.

 

I want to see more time with Wolt up front, probably in combination with Wissa or Osula. That said, Osula had been on a bit of a scoring run, so it would maybe have been harsh to drop him - and he did nearly race through early on. 

 

So, in isolation this game doesn't much affect my view of Howe, except that it looks like the players are still playing for him. As usual it's been the clinical finishing that has let us down.

 

 

 

That’s where I am. Yesterday was never going to be the test as even at the peak of our powers under Eddie we’ve had a PL draw and a LC win but nowt else down there.

 

However these next four are where the crunch point happens as Brighton, Forest, West Ham and Fulham are all winnable games in their own right based off recent history.

[Nine]

46 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

Technically yes, but we've actually only spent two weeks out of 34 in 8th or higher. We've only spent 7 of those 34 weeks in the top half.

 

We were within range of Europe but it was alongside a number of clubs and we've consistently ended up towards the bottom of that group. 

 

The fact that we've responded so dismally to those defeats is much more of a negative than a positive in my opinion. 

Wasn’t trying to paint anything as a positive as it’s been a very poor response and I think everyone would agree, and that’s the worry really. Howe has always pulled us out of a bad run way before it’s got to this point, we had a rocky point in 23/24 during the CL schedule then managed to stabilise it (decimated by injuries as we tried to press our way through the build up, this was an awful idea).

 

Of course other clubs were in range of Europe, they have been both other times we have secured CL with Howe and it’s to be expected. We’ve fallen short this time. 
 

We managed the schedule better this time but it’s still to much for this squad, to stay inside the top 8 and play CL group games would be a huge ask no matter how we set up. Same happened with Villa last season, only they had a strong start and strong finish which we have not and got 6th. At all.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Nine

[Nucasol]

3 minutes ago, Nine said:

Wasn’t trying to paint anything as a positive as it’s been a very poor response and I think everyone would agree, and that’s the worry really. Howe has always pulled us out of a bad run way before it’s got to this point, we had a rocky point in 23/24 during the CL schedule then (decimated by injuries as we tried to press our way through the build up, this was an awful idea).

 

Of course other clubs were in range of Europe, they have been both other times we have secured CL with Howe and it’s to be expected. We’ve fallen short this time. 
 

We managed the schedule better this time but it’s still to much for this squad, to stay inside the top 8 and play CL group games would be a huge ask no matter how we set up. Same happened with Villa last season, only they had a strong start and strong finish which we have not and got 6th. At all.

 

 

 

Villa also signed players on loan in January to finish strongly. As ever we didn’t.

[Mattoon]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

It's one of those things whereby I can't help but disagree. Things stacked against him is over the top imo. 

 

I've mentioned it before but I'm not sure what people think the ceo would have done apart from sign off on any deals, he's not going to be persuading players that we are the place to be. 

 

In terms of the DOF what change would people expect if we somehow magically had someone other than Paul Mitchell? Most of what we bought were long term targets. 

 

With regards to our performance in the cups we achieved above par in the competition which matters the least. For the others we pretty much went out where I'd expect/in line with our budget.

 

And if we put all of this aside and agree to differ which is obviously fine, can someone explain to me the slop I watch week in week out? The same old predictable tactics, telegraphed subs and total lack of game management. 

 

We've spent a mind boggling money on a squad and we don't have a single player who can beat his man. 

 

I think this has been done to death, get a DOF worth his salt in and maybe out of all the transfers we missed out on we might get someone like Pedro or Ekitike as we offload Isak early, or Mitchell doesn't get to burn bridges with Isak over his contract and he stays, or we get someone like Trafford and the season looks completely different.

 

As far as the summer transfer did go we had Thiaw, Ramsey, Elanga, Wissa and Woltemade, Thiaw had some question marks about him but has proven to be an astute signing, Ramsey was brought in to be a squad player for rotation and after a difficult start has proven to be just that, no one batted an eyelid about Elanga or Wissa, just balked at the prices, both have turned out to be atrocious unfortunately, but the idea on paper looked sound. My only real gripe is Woltemade, promising young striker with bags of skill and courted by one of the best teams in Europe and we just haven't figured out a way to use him.

 

And as others have alluded to, the team looks that shot, no one really knows where to start with it. Yes Howe could try something different, but he's trying what he knows best with a team rock bottom with confidence, its obviously a weakness of his, too scared to change it, desperate for a result, can't see the wood for the trees etc... 

 

It all boils down to whether you think he can reproduce his magic with another summer with the right support network and fresh faces. And as I have already said although I think he can, I understand why others have their doubts. I just think there's a wider picture than Howe has gone as far as he can and he's finished here.

[Hovagod]

Howe has said himself that he’s not changing and we can see with our own eyes that he has no particular interest in changing the system. The system that has not worked for months. Not sure at what point this is all supposed to just change. 

[Nine]

7 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Villa also signed players on loan in January to finish strongly. As ever we didn’t.

Indeed. Howe is strongly against that, I think it’s pretty short sighted sometimes but I do get the thinking behind it. 

[Nucasol]

Just now, Hovagod said:

Howe has said himself that he’s not changing and we can see with our own eyes that he has no particular interest in changing the system. The system that has not worked for months. Not sure at what point this is all supposed to just change. 

But with Plan Bs, it’s always difficult. If you have too many Plan Bs it means your Plan A is flawed and your players are thinking what’s next rather than trying to deliver Plan A to the best of their ability.

 

The man himself. Plan A ride or die.

[Mattoon]

I don't get how the way of playing is a stick to beat Howe with, every manager has a way they want to play, they just tweak it depending on the opposition and very rarely differ from it.

 

Howe is no different, and he has shown he can mix it up against the best which was proven in the cup wins against Arsenal (home and away btw) and Liverpool last season. 

[La Parka]

I think the issue is - his system is completely failing. If he won't change why will we expect things to improve?

[Heron]

4 hours ago, r0cafella said:

It's one of those things whereby I can't help but disagree. Things stacked against him is over the top imo. 

 

I've mentioned it before but I'm not sure what people think the ceo would have done apart from sign off on any deals, he's not going to be persuading players that we are the place to be. 

 

In terms of the DOF what change would people expect if we somehow magically had someone other than Paul Mitchell? Most of what we bought were long term targets. 

 

With regards to our performance in the cups we achieved above par in the competition which matters the least. For the others we pretty much went out where I'd expect/in line with our budget.

 

And if we put all of this aside and agree to differ which is obviously fine, can someone explain to me the slop I watch week in week out? The same old predictable tactics, telegraphed subs and total lack of game management. 

 

We've spent a mind boggling money on a squad and we don't have a single player who can beat his man. 

 

This is the bit that is specific to Howe in terms of valid criticisms, in my opinion. Whether folk agree with that or not is another matter, but results would point to there being at least some fault of Howe's in this area whether folk like it or not.

 

The rest of your post is contrary to the root causing I've seen countless times from other people and despite you and I sitting on opposite sides of the fence on Howe (as I understand) you are questioning the right "root causes" which I appreciate and think is more refreshing than a lot of the things I've been reading.

 

So to reduce the discussion down to Howes tactics, team selection and man management - I think Howe has underperformed this season - if we want to call it that. We are probably around 7 or 8 points behind where I'd have expected us to be, and I think with a different approach in various games, or changed tactics or personnel we could have quite easily achieved this. I think Woltemade doesn't suit our existing wing play (balls in the box) and actually this is an area where the wingers have done quite well, but the system is making both Woltemade and the wingers seem they're the ones at fault when they simply don't marry up. The wingers on a more defensive and basic level though have been collectively woeful in my opinion. Our midfield 3 is too flat also and too easy to bypass as a result of both of the above and any team with a decent 10 or attacking midfielder continue to find it too easy to play between the lines as the hipsters now say . These elements are with Howe, but more often or not that risk has previously been met with reward (in previous seasons, and in terms of first half's - often in this).

 

However, we could also have not lost at Palace if Botman doesn't inexplicably pull their attacker down. Not lost at Sunderland (away) without a freak incident from Woltemade. We could have got a win versus Chelsea of Thiaw isn't turned with relative ease by Joao Pedro(?), Pope's mistakes, etc. Etc. That's looking down at the players (in terms of structure) as well as the points looking up at Howes seniors.

 

That's why it is a collective failing this season and even the players mistakes Howe must shoulder, as their manager.

 

Thus far, under Howe, I have seen more done right by Howe, his team and the players than snyonr else at the club. They have performed above average for approximately 75%+ of his tenure. Whereas, I've seen multiple changes at senior levels and plenty to suggest that we simply aren't clear in our direction or able to retain staff at higher levels.

 

That's why I back Howe and the team to get it right over taking the chance with folk who are presently giving off signs they don't know their arse from their elbow. It is effectively what Chelsea, Spurs and Man United have all been doing at senior levels (albeit Man United have since rectified it).

 

Irrespective of who folk attribute the buying and selling of players too - the club hasn't had much time to rectify the Isak scenario (one, mid-season window) and that's why I think too twist would be a rash decision on Howes future. I understand that folk don't- and for the reason you've stated but I get annoyed (and I think most Hoae supporters do) when folk provide evidence to support their debate that is either disingenuous or simply revisionist based on existing emotions.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Heron

[Nine]

1 minute ago, La Parka said:

I think the issue is - his system is completely failing. If he won't change why will we expect things to improve?

I think with the nature of the system and the circumstances of this season we need a full summer reset and to go again, I see no reason why it can’t come good again with Howe. It absolutely can. 
 

The question marks are more mid-long term for me, how far can we go under the current set up? 

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Mattoon said:

I don't get how the way of playing is a stick to beat Howe with, every manager has a way they want to play, they just tweak it depending on the opposition and very rarely differ from it.

 

Howe is no different, and he has shown he can mix it up against the best which was proven in the cup wins against Arsenal (home and away btw) and Liverpool last season. 

 

I agree, but when you are in a bad run is it not better to change it up a bit so that we aren't so predictable? 

 

Against Brighton next week we'll play -

 

433 

 

With subs at 62, 75 and 85 minutes 

 

Brighton will know this and if they can keep it 0 0 at half time the fans will get tetchy and start groaning at lose passes which puts extra pressure on an already tense situation, Pope will probably make a daft mistake and well lose 0 1 

[Hovagod]

3 minutes ago, Nine said:

I think with the nature of the system and the circumstances of this season we need a full summer reset and to go again, I see no reason why it can’t come good again with Howe. It absolutely can. 

This is what I mean. What is this based on? Every team in the league has us figured out. If we’re going to spend money on new players, I would rather it was to play a different way with a different manager. 

 

 

Edited April 26 by Hovagod

[gjohnson]

His time is done. Legend for us, but we used to go in to almost every match expecting to win...now we go into every match expecting to lose. We have a bad habit of clinging to the past, and we're doing it now. We can see football is changing faster than ever. And as someone said its more like chess now. There's no enjoyment anymore....even the makems had half a season of fun...mainly at our expense 

[Heron]

5 minutes ago, Hovagod said:

This is what I mean. What is this based on? Every team in the league has us figured out. If we’re going to spend money on new players, I would rather it was to play a different way with a different manager. 

 

 

 

On the basis folk wanted Howe out December 2024 and we then went on to win a cup and gain Champions League qualification I'd guess - changing tactics and personnel on the way to said cup win also.

 

Howe supporters such as myself supported him then, and support him now based on that being fairly solid evidence that he can generate momentum where previously there was none. Just as he did when saving us from relegation.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Heron

[Kid Icarus]

4 hours ago, r0cafella said:

I've mentioned it before but I'm not sure what people think the ceo would have done apart from sign off on any deals, he's not going to be persuading players that we are the place to be. 

 

In terms of the DOF what change would people expect if we somehow magically had someone other than Paul Mitchell? Most of what we bought were long term targets. 

 

A CEO doesn't just sign off on deals, look at Staveley's role in the documentary, even just look at Jamie Reuben's attempt to sign Sesko and win Isak around in the summer when he finally got involved. You know that it's more than signing off.

 

Having a DoF isn't just about what they themselves bring to the table either, and which we've all gone through ad nauseum, but about freeing up the people who were tasked with doing that job, and who already have jobs of their own, to focus on their own jobs.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Kid Icarus

[Chicken Dancer]

There were people calling out what they were seeing in November but were met with comments such as ‘Wissa is back soon’ or ‘we’ll figure it out’ or ‘that pesky Isak’s fault’ 
 

We’re 4 games removed from season ending (thank God) having lost as many games in a season than Bruce ever did, and I’m still seeing the same things in defence of Howe. It’s unbelievable.

 

I would say I’m on the fence, but the fence is now tilting quite heavily towards ‘out’. Call it 65/35, but I don’t think I could ever outright say ‘Get him sacked’ because of what he’s given me, and the comment from someone saying ‘fuck off asap’ or whatever last night was a tad much… BUT I see far more aggressive comments from the other side tbh. Certainly a lot more condescending.

 

I said the other day it’s a forum on the internet. It’s really not worth getting yourself too riled about somebody else’s opinion because it’s different to yours. 

[Hhtoon]

30 minutes ago, Hovagod said:

Howe has said himself that he’s not changing and we can see with our own eyes that he has no particular interest in changing the system. The system that has not worked for months. Not sure at what point this is all supposed to just change. 

 

I guess the system doesn't work at the mo because we don't have the players or too many games to maintain the levels needed.

 

We should have had the players after the summer but it didn't go to plan. I blame the entire senior team for that, including Howe, but think thats enough mitigation to give him time next season. 

 

We're also not getting spanked every week in thr league, its very fine margins