Eddie Howe

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I’m hoping they’ve already decided and summer plans are in motion. 

[Rich]

10 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Any chance a new poll can be added ? Simple yes or no on if people want him out or not ?

 

Sorted. I'm still hovering in 'yes' territory as far as backing him goes, but my gripes are growing by the week.

 

As much as anything else, I'd just like to see us, as a club, stick by a manager through a bad period and see if we can come out of the other side smelling like roses.

 

I do worry that Hopkinson's comments about 'expecting' a strong end to the season have painted him into a corner, though, especially now we've lost 3/3 since he made them.

[Holmesy]

32 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Here me out, but what if managerial limitation was one of several factors at play this season? 

 

There's a lot of fingers being pointed at folk who attribute no blame to Howe, but aren't people who attribute all of the blame to him, just a different side of the same coin?

 

 

I agree there's been signs of poor management this season. Poor box defending, strange selections and rigid substitutions certainly don't help Howe's case.

 

 

This is a massive oversimplification. We're a limited, injury hit squad, who's played circa 60 games this season.

 

Man City and Liverpool are far more seasoned sides that have suffered from fatigue in recent seasons, but they were able to drop substantial dollar to refresh their squads.

 

It also overlooks mental fatigue and confidence which are both absolute momentum killers.

 

 

Again, another massive oversimplification discussed at length above.

 

 

Isn't it pretty obvious? Before last summer we went three transfer windows without being able to spend. This summer may have been mismanaged, but we absolutely targeted the most critical positions.

 

 

See above on mental fatigue and confidence.

 

 

He has adapted and reinvented us over and over. The debate really boils down to whether you think he can do it again. Either way, we will investment to refresh the squad this summer.

 

We don't need to fall into polarised thinking here. It is possible to say that Howe has struggled at points this season, whilst recognising that he's been delt a difficult hand, without calling that an excuse.

 

 

 

agree the polarised thinking doesn’t help but I think some of the defences of Eddie this season, and the excuses given are difficult to stomach. There’s a reason he is paid a stupid amount of money - because this is elite level sport. He is paid £millions to find solutions. In any other walk of life, top execs being paid millions are not afforded excuses or a year of abject mediocrity.

Ultimately, it comes down to “has he tried literally everything to make this work?” And the answer is no, he has tried everything within a set system to make this work without accepting that the system may have to change. For me, that simply isn’t good enough. For others, it’s fine. I find it odd but we all see things differently. 

 

I accept that there were mitigating circumstances to a degree but the summer was almost a year ago, and we knew what to expect this season based on the last time we were in Europe.

As others have pointed out, other teams lost a lot more than we did in terms of key players and most of them are above us in the league. Of course they didn’t have Europe to contend with but if European qualification is such a hindrance to us, we have a serious catch 22.

[Nucasol]

Currently a “yes” but at this point it’s contingent on the outcome of the last four games. Three or more duds and it’ll likely be a “no”.

 

There’s also a nagging doubt about trusting him to get the right players in but would prefer to see him work much more under the remit of Wilson and the transfer team this summer.

 

Will be blockbuster either way.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Nucasol

[Holmesy]

28 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Any chance a new poll can be added ? Simple yes or no on if people want him out or not ?

I don’t think it’s that simple. I want him to stay if he’s prepared to evolve. If he isn’t, which seems to be the case, I want him replaced.

So, I would have to answer yes when it’s not that black & white (pun intended)

 

 

Edited April 26 by Holmesy

[Yorkie]

I was very comfortable with my "on the fence" position in the previous poll, but if we're going the gun-to-the-head way, it's still a Yes. My well of faith is getting drier and drier, but it'll probably only take one good win to fire a water cannon directly down it. Begging for it to happen.

[SUPERTOON]

6 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

Sorted. I'm still hovering in 'yes' territory as far as backing him goes, but my gripes are growing by the week.

 

As much as anything else, I'd just like to see us, as a club, stick by a manager through a bad period and see if we can come out of the other side smelling like roses.

 

I do worry that Hopkinson's comments about 'expecting' a strong end to the season have painted him into a corner, though, especially now we've lost 3/3 since he made them.

I think he needs to show some improvement and win some games over the next few weeks to keep his job. 

[TRon]

33 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Massive overreaction. There’s a small group - max a handful - who have gone down the “True” Geordie (aka The Tarmaccer) route of scorched earth with Eddie and being disrespectful. Many of us are posting rational arguments pro/against him staying. Don’t conflate this to the whole debate. 

 

I don't know much about True Geordie, never really watched much of his stuff before this season, but his criticisms of Howe have been pretty well reasoned tbh. 

 

He could deliver them a bit more diplomatically I suppose, but I imagine "telling it straight" is his schtick. 

[Bimpy474]

I know of a lot of what's being said is tongue in cheek, and you can tell some have hope Eddie can turn the form around, despite not really having the faith in it.

 

However, the lack of respect for what this man has done to this club, from where we were to winning something. 

Now I'm not blind, and things must improve. I think he should rebuild the team, and have the chance to do that.

 

Now those who don't agree, fair enough i don't think you're right, but I'll respect your view.

 

Those just slating him off though, can fuck off. Bunch of entitled cunts, we all knew that would happen eventually, but still makes me sick to the stomach. 

50 years of Newcastle United in my life, with a couple of decent times, KK and Sir Bobby, but this man won something, and you cunts are saying what ?  Get to fuck the lot of you.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Bimpy474

[Nucasol]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I don't know much about True Geordie, never really watched much of his stuff before this season, but his criticisms of Howe have been pretty well reasoned tbh. 

 

He could deliver them a bit more diplomatically I suppose, but I imagine "telling it straight" is his schtick. 

He’s a grifting shitbag who shifts position to maximise monetisation. Get back to winning ways under Eddie next season and he’ll be begging harder than in those DMs to the lass.

[TK-421]

8 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I don’t think it’s that simple. I want him to stay if he’s prepared to evolve. If he isn’t, which seems to be the case, I want him replaced.

So, ai would have to answer yes when it’s not that black & white (pun intended)

 

Yep, thats where I am at too.

[Kilcline]

I've settled on a position of thinking we should make a change, but I'm not going to "turn" in the ground as such and if he stays on then next season is a clean slate as far as I'm concerned and let's see what happens.

 

If the club backs him in the summer and then gets rid in September or October if we have a shaky start though, then whoever is making those decisions at the club can get to absolute fuck.

[Holmesy]

33 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

But I mean, by any measure he’s a good manager. If not a great one. 
 

I don’t mind talking about why he should stay or go. I just don’t know if the best approach is to list all the problems and theoretical things he could’ve done to make sure they weren’t problems. Seems too high a standard to hold anyone to IMO. 

I don’t think they’re that high a standard though, I think they’re the fundamentals expected from any football manager aren’t they? 

Find a system that works for the players

Keep them fit

Manage the workload

Keep them motivated

Adapt when things aren’t working 

Spend wisely

 

I don’t think they’re ridiculous things to ask. I think they’re the basics.

Neil Warnock was talking about a younger manager a while back (maybe Amorim) and said “you don’t go into a club and force players into a system that doesn’t fit them. You go in, see what you’ve got and build a system to get the best out of them.”

Neil fucking Warnock! It’s management 101.

 

[duo]

I am a 'No' as I feel he's not adapted his system to suit the players we have. He's tried to play the same way week after week which hasn't worked. He lost me after the Palace game.

[SUPERTOON]

13 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I’m hoping they’ve already decided and summer plans are in motion. 

I think they may have been waiting to get if we could get Europe or not. I’m guessing they didn’t expect us to lose every game either (hopefully we won’t). I’d imagine if we did that would have some impact on his future.

[r0cafella]

Voted no. I desperately wanted to see green shoots but I'm not seeing them.

 

The thought of going again next season with no indication of a change of player profile and doing more of the same isnt for me. 

 

No issues with those who trust the process though, if anything I'm envious of them. 

[Holloway]

Yes from me ,but the conviction has been eroded

[Andy]

I voted yes, but there's a hell of a lot of land in between those two options, and I think I find myself pretty much slap bang in the middle to be honest. 

 

It's basically "I back him but with a ton of caveats". 

[Holmesy]

6 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I think they may have been waiting to get if we could get Europe or not. I’m guessing they didn’t expect us to lose every game either (hopefully we won’t). I’d imagine if we did that would have some impact on his future.

I also think he has enough integrity to walk away if he feels he can’t take us any further.

He’ll be hurting more than most and I’ve no doubt he’ll put the club before himself if he thinks it’s for the best. 

[Abacus]

It's interesting that when Howe came in, we were playing shapeless, formless football. We absolutely needed someone like him with a clear vision on the pitch, the determination and self belief in it himself, and to then bring the players along with him for what is now referred to as Plan A. 

 

Being able to do that not only saved our skins by keeping it clear and simple, but brought us some incredible successes over the following seasons. I don't buy that it's a completely rigid system either, as tweaks have been made when necessary. 

 

Whether it is still working now either through other teams working us out, the volume of games when in Europe, not having the right personnel to execute it or any combination of those is a matter of debate.

 

You could argue that if it is indeed teams working us out, then Howe's great strength and his commitment to that system starts to look like his weakness at the same time. So I get that and why some people sit where they do.

 

If we do lose Howe in the summer, and I personally hope not, I don't think we should stick with a version of plan A with someone else in charge since I'm not sure there's anyone else better at it.

 

So, for me, it would need a real shift in proposed playing style to make that call on whether someone different is worth a go. Others may think differently or indeed would welcome such a change for exactly the same reasons.

 

But whatever it ends up being, that decision needs to be early either by Howe himself or the club, so that if there is to be a change we can identify the right type of players for whatever any new playing style is. 

 

But whichever way you go, we'd definitely need a few lock-pickers against low blocks.

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

I’m a no, there are no signs of life that things will get any better. We look so passive and easy-to-play against. 

[The Prophet]

13 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

agree the polarised thinking doesn’t help but I think some of the defences of Eddie this season, and the excuses given are difficult to stomach. There’s a reason he is paid a stupid amount of money - because this is elite level sport. He is paid £millions to find solutions. In any other walk of life, top execs being paid millions are not afforded excuses or a year of abject mediocrity.

Ultimately, it comes down to “has he tried literally everything to make this work?” And the answer is no, he has tried everything within a set system to make this work without accepting that the system may have to change. For me, that simply isn’t good enough. For others, it’s fine. I find it odd but we all see things differently. 

 

I accept that there were mitigating circumstances to a degree but the summer was almost a year ago, and we knew what to expect this season based on the last time we were in Europe.

As others have pointed out, other teams lost a lot more than we did in terms of key players and most of them are above us in the league. Of course they didn’t have Europe to contend with but if European qualification is such a hindrance to us, we have a serious catch 22.

 

"Polarised thinking doesn't help" 

 

Makes a false equivalence.

 

Calls other contributing factors "excuses".

 

Questions why be hasn't ripped up his entire managerial philosophy like it's a regular occurrence in football.

 

Discusses the clubs issues in reductive terms.

 

Howay man.

[The Prophet]

14 minutes ago, TK-421 said:

 

Yep, thats where I am at too.

 

What does evolution look like in this instance?

 

That isn't bad faith by the way, genuinely interested.

[Ben]

13 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I don’t think they’re that high a standard though, I think they’re the fundamentals expected from any football manager aren’t they? 

Find a system that works for the players

Keep them fit

Manage the workload

Keep them motivated

Adapt when things aren’t working 

Spend wisely

 

I don’t think they’re ridiculous things to ask. I think they’re the basics.

Neil Warnock was talking about a younger manager a while back (maybe Amorim) and said “you don’t go into a club and force players into a system that doesn’t fit them. You go in, see what you’ve got and build a system to get the best out of them.”

Neil fucking Warnock! It’s management 101.

 

 

TBF Eddie knows his system inside out, he should target players for that, big Nick doesn't suit our system, if anything, the fact we didnt improve the squad in January might be proof that Howe has lost some control in that department 

[nufc4eva]

If we lose to Brighton on Sat it's a full No, even through my criticism part of me hopes it's just a blip and we sort it this summer but just haven't seen any signs of him getting it right and finding ways to integrate newer players other than Ramsey. The signings were atrocious last summer.

 

He needs to evolve the style past this 433, sign energetic more technical/skillful players as well as retaining some physicality and he has to be fucking ruthless with Murphy, Pope, Burn, Gordon and others to freshen the whole thing up, I'm not sure he will be though.

 

I'm not sure how we sort the Wissa and Elanga problem given fee we paid and he has to build players in to get most out of Woltemade who isn't shit or short of effort, just out of place in the way we play.