Eddie Howe

[Orphanage]

We suffered after the WC break lost momentum for a bit

[Mattoon]

 

 

[Andy]

4 minutes ago, clintdempsey said:

If last season is deemed a 'miracle' can we really expect it to happen again?

 

For the record I don't see last season as miraculous - a few things fell in or favour (other sides having off-seasons, a welcome WC break in the middle of the season). But last season's achievments were more down to hard graft and a very good coach having enough time with his players on the training ground to prepare for games.

 

This is something Howe will have to adapt to though if he is to take the club a level further. You don't get much time on the training ground once you're fighting on all fronts, so the limited coaching time you do get has to stick. 

 

Obviously it helps if you also have better/more intelligent players who need less coaching. 

[clintdempsey]

Just now, Andy said:

 

This is something Howe will have to adapt to though if he is to take the club a level further. You don't get much time on the training ground once you're fighting on all fronts, so the limited coaching time you do get has to stick. 

 

Obviously it helps if you also have better/more intelligent players who need less coaching. 

 

Absolutely - he's got a journey to make. He's a very good coach, we all know that but he'll have to transition to a very good manager over the coming seasons. Hopefully he'll get the backing and time needed to do that.

[Jackie Broon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I don't think the board will care as much about the Sunderland game as the fans will.

 

It might be make or break with some fans but not leadership.

 

I think they will but because it is our last opportunity to compete for something this season rather than it being the mackems. Yasir turned up for Cambridge, they take the cups very seriously.

 

 

Edited January 2 by Jackie Broon

[The Prophet]

Very good post.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I think they will but because it is our last opportunity to compete for something this season rather than it being the mackems. Yasir turned up for Cambridge, they take the cups very seriously.

 

 

 

"Good run in the cups" does little to satisfy the clubs long-term ambitions. Winning a cup would be a huge achievement but anything short - IMO doesn't add much value beyond "feel good factor".

 

IMO the leadership would rather finish 7th and qualify for the Europa League (if poss), than finish 9th and get to the FA Cup semi-final or even the final and losing.

[TRon]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

"Good run in the cups" does little to satisfy the clubs long-term ambitions. Winning a cup would be a huge achievement but anything short - IMO doesn't add much value beyond "feel good factor".

 

IMO the leadership would rather finish 7th and qualify for the Europa League (if poss), than finish 9th and get to the FA Cup semi-final or even the final and losing.

 

Being in Europe is very important for the club brand to grow globally.

[Holmesy]

Team's analysis departments are so good these days that what you did one season rarely works as well the next, hence why a number of tactical approaches, multiple game plans and effective in-game management is so important. That's where some of this criticism feels warranted.

Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City can get away with largely doing the same thing season in, season out because their resources in terms of player quality are so much better than everyone else's. But even then, City have changed a lot over the years though - they now combine that technical tika-taka football with a more direct approach when needed. That's why Pep is the best in the world.

We don't have the luxury of fantastic quality in depth, so we have to be smarter. To an extent, what we're seeing is other teams having identified our weaknesses and negating our strengths.  Any unknown elements eg. Tonali/Barnes have been taken away from us and obviously the intensity that was so effective last season can't be employed to the same degree this season. But that's where EH has to earn his stripes. We've been worked out to a degree, so go again - find a new effective way for us to get results with the resources and energy reserves we have. We can't just have one tactic in our locker - that's only one more than Steve Bruce had.

 

I've no doubt he's capable of it but where are the signs Eddie is learning from his mistakes? Where are the signs we're looking to employ a different approach to manage the players' low energy levels? It seems we spent the entire summer working on one game plan, that revolved largely around what we did last season, and now we can't use that approach we look clueless. 

 

 

 

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

Team's analysis departments are so good these days that what you did one season rarely works as well the next, hence why a number of tactical approaches, multiple game plans and effective in-game management is so important. That's where some of this criticism feels warranted.

Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City can get away with largely doing the same thing season in, season out because their resources in terms of player quality are so much better than everyone else's. But even then, City have changed a lot over the years though - they now combine that technical tika-taka football with a more direct approach when needed. That's why Pep is the best in the world.

We don't have the luxury of fantastic quality in depth, so we have to be smarter. To an extent, what we're seeing is other teams having identified our weaknesses and negating our strengths.  Any unknown elements eg. Tonali/Barnes have been taken away from us and obviously the intensity that was so effective last season can't be employed to the same degree this season. But that's where EH has to earn his stripes. We've been worked out to a degree, so go again - find a new effective way for us to get results with the resources and energy reserves we have. We can't just have one tactic in our locker - that's only one more than Steve Bruce had.

 

I've no doubt he's capable of it but where are the signs Eddie is learning from his mistakes? Where are the signs we're looking to employ a different approach to manage the players' low energy levels? It seems we spent the entire summer working on one game plan, that revolved largely around what we did last season, and now we can't use that approach we look clueless. 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought we did sit deeper yesterday though, we just didn't have the players who could cope with it. Liverpool swarmed us and we couldn't find a way out.

[Holmesy]

Just now, TRon said:

 

 

I thought we did sit deeper yesterday though, we just didn't have the players who could cope with it. Liverpool swarmed us and we couldn't find a way out.

 

Maybe it's old habits dying hard or maybe Eddie is telling the players to do stuff that they're too mentally fatigued to do consistently, but even when we sat deep, we undid ourselves by everyone piling forward like school kids in the playground. Could we just be too engrained in our old way of playing to effectively do something different for 90 minutes?

[BonesJones]

If a plumber comes round to fix a leak, but his company have provided tools from the middle aisle of LiDL/ALDI, is the plumber at fault?

 

Not saying the owners have given him this situation, but it is the hand he's been dealt. Just don't understand how the current situation is barely being factored in to some people's opinions.

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

 

Maybe it's old habits dying hard or maybe Eddie is telling the players to do stuff that they're too mentally fatigued to do consistently, but even when we sat deep, we undid ourselves by everyone piling forward like school kids in the playground. Could we just be too engrained in our old way of playing to effectively do something different for 90 minutes?

 

There will be a bit of that, it's not easy to switch styles of play mid-season, but I still thought we were trying to do the right things. Neville in the commentary box was lambasting us for trying to play our way out from the back, but that's how you break down teams that are pressing you. There's loads of space behind them if you can get the ball out. That's what Forest did to us with brilliant effect. They didn't punt the ball clear, they kept their cool and found the gaps.

 

I just felt too many of our players weren't good enough to do the same against the Liverpool press. I'm not even sure it was fatigue, I look at players like Longstaff and I know he's going to panic when someone rushes him. Bruno's usually great at shielding the ball, but he's slow so if he gets caught in space then he's losing that battle.

[Jackie Broon]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

"Good run in the cups" does little to satisfy the clubs long-term ambitions. Winning a cup would be a huge achievement but anything short - IMO doesn't add much value beyond "feel good factor".

 

IMO the leadership would rather finish 7th and qualify for the Europa League (if poss), than finish 9th and get to the FA Cup semi-final or even the final and losing.

 

I doubt they see it as an either/or, even when we looked more likely than not to go down the chairman came for a first round FA cup tie against Cambridge. He was apparently furious and went into the dressing room to speak to the squad when we lost.

 

They're not Ashley, they won't be thinking that us going out of the cup will help is in the league.

[The College Dropout]

26 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I doubt they see it as an either/or, even when we looked more likely than not to go down the chairman came for a first round FA cup tie against Cambridge. He was apparently furious and went into the dressing room to speak to the squad when we lost.

 

They're not Ashley, they won't be thinking that us going out of the cup will help is in the league.

I think they want us to challenge for everything. But at the end of the season, the league finish will define the season. if we finish 6th-7th the owners will look around and say - it's been a decent season all things considered. No matter what happens in the FA Cup. If we finish 10th - unless we win the FA Cup the season will be considered a bit of a failure. I do think an FA Cup final appearance or semi-final might save Howe's job in that instance though or at least have people's support both fans and in the boardroom.

 

For aspiring top sides - you get credit for winning trophies and high league finishes. Cup runs are for midtable teams.

 

Edit: the champions league is the obvious exception. 

 

 

Edited January 2 by The College Dropout

[huss9]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

The naivety of our approach, given the current circumstances around player availability and fitness, is concerning. It's like EH is stuck on one setting and everything we do has to be based around that setting.

We continually push everyone forward, despite a chronic lack of pace, and leave ourselves vulnerable to the counter attack 4-5 times every game. That isn't a difficult thing to change and yet, it isn't being addressed.

Dan Burn at left back is a disaster at times. Every team knows to target him and gets plenty of joy out of doing so. I appreciate the Hall transfer hasn't worked out but Livra at left back and Krafth at RB would've been a comfortably better option last night.

The ease with which teams play through our midfield, with one simple pass, leaving us on the back foot is embarrassing. When we're so one-paced as well, it's just tactical suicide. And yet, game-in, game-out nothing changes in this regard.

 

I'm definitely not in the Howe out camp, but watching this shit happen every game and getting dominated by the likes of Everton, Forest, Luton etc. is wearing very thin. None of us expected to win last night but we lost exhibiting the same glaring weaknesses that cost us against those lesser teams.

 

'Fatigue' has so far let some poor management off the hook, but how long will it be before that forgiving attitude changes?

 

 

eddie does seem to have a thing for BDB.

he wasnt a better LB than Targett and he isnt a better LB than Tino.

[The Prophet]

48 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

"Good run in the cups" does little to satisfy the clubs long-term ambitions. Winning a cup would be a huge achievement but anything short - IMO doesn't add much value beyond "feel good factor".

 

IMO the leadership would rather finish 7th and qualify for the Europa League (if poss), than finish 9th and get to the FA Cup semi-final or even the final and losing.

 

 Based on what though?

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

 

 Based on what though?

The long-term ambition for the club is to win trophies or at least compete - at the very highest level.

 

Every season, they want us to achieve things that help us build and sustain that objective. Qualifying for Europe boosts the clubs reputation, playing in Europe boosts the co-efficient to allow favourable draws at every level, increases revenues directly (match day revenue, TV revenue, prize money) and most importantly IMO - it helps justify larger sponsorship deals further boosting revenues.

 

A good run in the Cups doesn't do any of those things to the same degree. 

[Dr Jinx]

Honestly think Eddie Howe has gotten a fairly easy ride this season. Manchester Utd are doing better than us and their manager gets asked about his future on a weekly basis.

 

Risking injured players, spending our budget on players who have had no real impact on the first team, not changing things up when it became obvious the high intensity pressing plan wasn’t working anymore.

 

I don’t think he has a plan B.

 

Am sick of hearing how grateful we should be.. we have been grateful and we’ve lavished love and support to the players and management team, we’ve never properly boo’d the team after a stinking performance and there’s been quite a few this season.

 

I believe a change is needed. If it’s going to happen I’d rather he went sooner than later before all the good is tarnished by what’s coming next. I just can’t see him turning it around without major investment this month.

[GEFAFWISP]

[David Edgar]

His system has been sussed out and teams are now much better equipped to deal with us. Plus he has ran players into the ground. He has been far too inflexible with his systems and his selections. Completely fair game to question him this season.

 

It is all about where he goes from here. I don't want him gone. But if he can't improve inside the next 12 months, the club needs to move on or risk the project going backwards.

 

 

Edited January 2 by David Edgar

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Dr Jinx said:

Honestly think Eddie Howe has gotten a fairly easy ride this season. Manchester Utd are doing better than us and their manager gets asked about his future on a weekly basis.

 

Risking injured players, spending our budget on players who have had no real impact on the first team, not changing things up when it became obvious the high intensity pressing plan wasn’t working anymore.

 

I don’t think he has a plan B.

 

Am sick of hearing how grateful we should be.. we have been grateful and we’ve lavished love and support to the players and management team, we’ve never properly boo’d the team after a stinking performance and there’s been quite a few this season.

 

I believe a change is needed. If it’s going to happen I’d rather he went sooner than later before all the good is tarnished by what’s coming next. I just can’t see him turning it around without major investment this month.

Man U have spent much more money, with more significant wages, with a better existing squad. Also - people assume the management structure at Ma U is awful (recruitment, scouts, negotiations etc.), whereas people assume we have the best in class.

 

Transfers are a shared responsibility. Aye, we seem to have double-downed on Howe-ball in areas... but we've also signed players he doesn't seem keen to use and we've left him short in key positions for multiple windows.

 

I agree - there is no Plan. B.

 

I think he deserves the full season no matter what, and unless it's catastrophic - he deserves most of next season too.* 

 

*On the assumption we can't get a Xabi Alonso level replacement.

[BonesJones]

4 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

. I just can’t see him turning it around without major investment this month.

 

Nah nor me, especially after he got us out of that relegation fight.

[Shelveys Hair]

Making mistakes is how people learn.. its how he evolved from Bournmouth manager to his current self and it will be how he goes on to become a better manager next season.

 

You fall on your arse many times while learning to walk.

[Sean]

Howe is having a bad season. A very bad season at this moment in time. Is it salvageable? Yes. Does he need to learn and adapt and change things and improve as a manager? Yes. Are injuries a major reason for our bad run? Yes, clearly. Does he have to take some responsibility for that? Again, yes.