Eddie Howe

[mighty__mag]

2 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Sorry like but this is obviously silly.

 

We took the game to Milan, they just defended really well (Tomori was briliant) and slaughtered us on the break. Not sure how you watched it and thought he'd set us up for a draw?

 

Most of these games were during our worst period for injuries and fixture congestion. 

I'd be amazed if he was setting us up much different outside of tactical tweaks to suite the opposition. We played well against Villa and they were shite. If we were bad and lost you would have lumped them in with the other games and blamed the way we set up.

 

Again, what approach? We clearlly tried to control the game at the San Siro. 

 

How are we meant to play with intensity with a threadbare squad?

 

Howe wants push up the pitch and set pressing traps, shuttle the opposition out to the wings and clear away speculative balls and crosses. This is obvious by watching us play with a near fully fit squad.

 

The fact we've mainly dropped the 'intensity is our iidentity' style of play should be a good indicator that we just cannot apply the effort.

 

Why would you assume this is some random tactical diversion, rather than something forced onto him by our situation?

 

See last comment.

 

After the WC teams seemed to suss us a bit, but he sorted it out. The season tailed off past few games, but I wouldn't say we struggled?

 

Too much to really get into here. He'll likely change a lot of things in hindsight, but a lot of the things people say he should do will never adress our actual issue, which is our inability to be physical enough to control games like we used to.

 

Teams like Luton and Bournemouth just looked far fitter than us. More athletic and quicker to 2nd balls. 

 

Who exactly do we bring on from that bench, who is going to be capable of single handedly besting PSG's back line?

 

Riviere atleast has the physicality to win an aerial challenge, and if he was still here he no doubt would have came on 

 

But just throwing on random National League level 18 year olds is unlikely to do anything. With Isak, even when fucked, there's always the chance he can make something happen.

 

This applies to any manager. 90% of the time you know how they'll set up.

 

Our issue is that even the likes of Everton, Luton and Bournemouth know that they're fitter than us, and can bully us off the ball.

 

Why would we finish 8-12 every year? He had us consistent top 4 for over a year and a half, before an insane injury crisis.

 

Replacing him in the summer would be absolute insanity.

 

@Hanshithispantz You deserve a medal for taking the time to respond to that shite. Well done 

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I posted it before but cannot find it, basically we had 2 very strong starting XIs with the idea of rotating with the congested fixture list, that completely went out the window within a couple of months.

 

Everything after has basically just been staying afloat.

 

EDIT:

It hasn't gotten much better.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Hanshithispantz

[Bimpy474]

And throw an injury list that prevents those out of the team pushing those in it. Players levels will definitely drop, sub consciously imo if they know they will start week after week with no competition for the starting spot.

[et tu brute]

As I said earlier, massive game on Tuesday and a more favourable run of games until the end of the season. I personally think we will improve going forward this season. However, if this is not the case then the pressure will really start to ramp up. Failure to get a European spot, will hinder the value of commercial revenue and sponsorship deals. PIF will make the final decision and I honestly believe that a lot will depend on the form and results for the remainder of the season.
 

A big 3 months coming up, as things have to improve as there are errors being made in tactics. The press has totally disappeared and the midfield is being bypassed so easily every game, that it's virtually guaranteed we will concede goals. As mentioned also earlier, I feel that the ownership have for the last two transfer windows got it totally wrong. You improve your first team first, which then automatically improves the squad. We seem to have gone down the opposite route. I'm of the opinion this was down to Ashworth, but I don't know that for sure either. Going to be an interesting few months I feel.

 

 

Edited February 26 by et tu brute

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, et tu brute said:

As I said earlier, massive game on Tuesday and a more favourable run of games until the end of the season. I personally think we will improve going forward this season. However, if this is not the case then the pressure will really start to ramp up. Failure to get a European spot, will hinder the value of commercial revenue and sponsorship deals. PIF will make the final decision and I honestly believe that a lot will depend on the form and results for the remainder of the season.
 

A big 3 months coming up, as things have to improve as there are errors being made in tactics. The press has totally disappeared and the midfield is being bypassed so easily every game, that it's virtually guaranteed we will concede goals. As mentioned also earlier, I feel that the ownership have for the last two transfer windows totally wrong. You improve your first team first, which then automatically improves the squad. We seem to have gone down the opposite route. I'm of the opinion this was down to Ashworth, but I don't know that for sure either. Going to be an interesting few months I feel.

It could even be why Howe was very un-Howe like in his presser when asked about Ashworth.  Perhaps Ashworth pushed a policy which Howe wasn’t fully onboard with, before pissing off at the first opportunity, leaving Howe to carry the can

[Conjo]

20 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

 

@Hanshithispantz You deserve a medal for taking the time to respond to that shite. Well done 

 

 

 

November through to yesterday, every game my father says "why don't they press like they did last season?" and I try to explain the injury situation and the limitations of the human body. "uhm, ok, but I think they should try harder"  Same comment and same explanation again every fucking match

 

Some people just don't want the context. (or are showing early signs of dementia)

 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Conjo said:

 

November through to yesterday, every game my father says "why don't they press like they did last season?" and I try to explain the injury situation and the limitations of the human body. "uhm, ok, but I think they should try harder"  Same comment and same explanation again every fucking match

 

Some people just don't want the context. (or are showing early signs of dementia)

 

That’s great if you’ve developed tactics beyond a pressing game.  But we haven’t. 

[andycap]

I cannot remember us taking the game to Milan like in the San siro. We where pulled apart we basically sat back majority of the game. 

[Strawberry]

3 hours ago, Big Jow said:

The excuses of injuries, fatigue, suspensions, the schedule, the time our flight takes off are not actually as strong as people believed. They never have been.

 

This crap performance yesterday wasn’t down to any of those things. Our away form all season has mainly been due to these bizarre tactics we’ve put in place away from home. It first appeared at AC Milan and I wonder if the fact Howe thinks it ‘worked’ (depending on whether you view clinging on for 90 minutes for a draw is a good result) has been the reason he has persisted with it.

 

The reality is, it hasn’t worked, ever. We rode our luck in Milan and in other variations of it at Liverpool, Dortmund, PSG, Tottenham, Everton, Bournemouth have all shown it’s a disaster waiting to happen.

 

You only need to look at the games we’ve been successful in away from home like Villa where we took the game to them to realise even more what a crap plan it is.

 

Yes, we’ve had injuries and several other issues but we didn’t in Milan. This approach has been designed for us from the beginning.

 

Today we had what? Tonali, Big Joe & Pope missing out of the first 11 (assuming the former two start ahead of Little Joe). Are we so depleted we had to play the whole first 45 minutes on our goal line? 

 

We’ve had much worse starting 11s against much better Arsenal 11s in this fixture before (with much worse managers too) without resorting to that and it was criminal to set up in the way we did.

 

Howe was absolutely sensational last season and gave me some of my best memories as a Newcastle fan, last season his plan worked to some extent, although towards the end teams worked out how to play against us and we started to struggle.

 

Refusing to change formation, refusing to change tactics, refusing to address the gigantic gap between defence and midfield, refusing to take Burn out the 11 until today, refusing to play Hall, refusing to bring others on to rest players towards the end of games have all played a significant factor in terms of how this season have panned out. That said a lot of ‘elite’ managers are stubborn.

 

People continue to say “but what else can he do”, all of the above is the answer, because time and time again this season, what he has done hasn’t worked so he should maybe consider something else.

 

PSG for example, hoofing balls up to Isak for the last 45 minutes when he could barely walk, I don’t care if we had Riviere on the bench, bring him on for the last 10-15 minutes as he’ll at least be able to run and potentially keep hold of the ball. 

 

The only thing that I can’t work out, is if he’s as stubborn as above, why have we had a total U-turn this season with tactics from last? I can only assume he did this to try and conserve energy with the extra games.

 

We’re a dream to play against. The opposing manager and teams know exactly who will be playing and how we’ll set up.

 

The best situation is Howe reacts and changes, because I’d love for him to progress as we do, as he’s earned it. But sadly, this has striking similarities as to why he got relegated with Bournemouth, he was too stubborn to change. Not that we’ll get relegated, but we’ll be inconsistent and finish 8-12th every year under him imo. I’d love to be wrong though.

 

We’ll not improve this season by sacking Howe at this stage, he also has credit in the bank, but no idea if I’d look to replace him this summer or let him have one final crack at the whip with a blank sheet next year. We’re all in on the FA Cup this season and he needs to get that right.

The old HTT type of post great analysis. Everything he said here is so true. We cant suck him. My hope is Southgate flops and England come calling for him. Lets hope thats the case.

[Kanji]

Go away. 

[Erikse]

I find it kind of funny how the first thing Klopp does when he has a bench like we had in december is to do the exact opposite of what Howe did all december, to actually use his bench for fresh legs. Not only that, but he did it in a cup final, so it wasn't even just about saving legs for next game but crucially for having any fresh legs out there. And guess what, the team didn't fall apart at all. According to what many here said in december, this was clearly a mistake by Klopp. "Howe knows better than you", yeah sure, but Klopp also knows better than you. He also knows better than Howe.

 

I'd imagine that if Howe was the manager in that final he not use a single one of those academy players for the 120 min, sticking with players who can't run, and then some would have people defending him saying "he had no other choice, just look at the bench".

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[Zero]

We all know Howe won’t play any youngsters in the final.

 

A proper excuse is Liverpools youth are much better than ours so Klopp can use them but we can’t.

 

and then last week I just know we let go a 16 years old young kid midfielder to Chelsea who just made the bench for their first team squad 

and last night Bobby Clark, who left us 2 year ago, was shining for Liverpool.
 

fucking hell. I ain’t targeting Howe, I I am targeting probably the club as a whole, for many years, that we did not do enough for protecting, developing and giving youngsters promise to stay in our club. 
 

Bobby Clark made the right decision, and this final would just encourage the upcoming Bobby Clark to do the same 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Zero

[Lordshola]

1 hour ago, Erikse said:

I find it kind of funny how the first thing Klopp does when he has a bench like we had in december is to do the exact opposite of what Howe did all december, to actually use his bench for fresh legs. Not only that, but he did it in a cup final, so it wasn't even just about saving legs for next game but crucially for having any fresh legs out there. And guess what, the team didn't fall apart at all. According to what many here said in december, this was clearly a mistake by Klopp. "Howe knows better than you", yeah sure, but Klopp also knows better than you all. He also knows better than Howe as a manager.

 

I'd imagine that if Howe was the manager in that final he not use a single one of those academy players for the 120 min, sticking with players who can't run, and then you would have people defending him saying "he had no other choice, just look at the bench".

 

 

 

Well said.

 

The reason we can’t use the bench seems to be because they’re not playing enough to be trusted/fit the system etc..

 

There’s a simple way to fix that.

 

For me, I’d rather have a fresh youngster with no experience playing instead of someone like Big Joe who is running in fumes and ends up injured anyway, but still we have no replacement except for the 87th minute of course!

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 hour ago, Kanji said:

Go away. 

unfortunately the CHUDS are out in full force. If Howe wins a few in a row, they'll of course disappear back into the sewer.

[McDog]

Just now, Vinny Green Balls said:

unfortunately the CHUDS are out in full force. If Howe wins a few in a row, they'll of course disappear back into the sewer.

 

 

Gotta ask, is that referencing C.H.U.D which I quite liked as a movie back then or am I way off the mark? I'm sure I'm off the mark.

[GideonShandy]

Think you're right.

Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers

[Vinny Green Balls]

8 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Gotta ask, is that referencing C.H.U.D which I quite liked as a movie back then or am I way off the mark? I'm sure I'm off the mark.

I was referencing actual Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers. Not the movie propaganda version.

[Erikse]

2 hours ago, Zero said:

We all know Howe won’t play any youngsters in the final.

 

A proper excuse is Liverpools youth are much better than ours so Klopp can use them but we can’t.

 

and then last week I just know we let go a 16 years old young kid midfielder to Chelsea who just made the bench for their first team squad 

and last night Bobby Clark, who left us 2 year ago, was shining for Liverpool.
 

fucking hell. I ain’t targeting Howe, I I am targeting probably the club as a whole, for many years, that we did not do enough for protecting, developing and giving youngsters promise to stay in our club. 
 

Bobby Clark made the right decision, and this final would just encourage the upcoming Bobby Clark to do the same 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's fair, but only if you look at it in relation to who he took off and compare those players to the players in our team that Howe could've taken off. He brought off Mac Allister and Gakpo, and I would assume that they were not nearly as knackered as our players were back in december. So there is also more of an argument to keep those players on the field rather than subbing them for someone who hasn't started before, or even played at all (?). Yet he did. And as I said, I can't see Howe doing what Klopp did if he was in the exact same situation with the same players and setup.

 

Also, Howe had 2 reasons to do it. Fresh legs and resting players so that they could perform in coming games. This was a final, so you don't really think about resting players for future games.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[Zero]

It’s for both, keeping your core players fresh for the remaining games, and give experience to the youngsters so they can really step up when needed. It’s  simple long-term squad planning.

 

It’s something Howe should have done regularly, not just this season, not just during injury crisis. And as I said, the problem probably stems deeper than just the manager. It’s the club as a whole. A very simple question, why would Bobby Clark get a guaranteed first team develop path in Liverpool, by that time a ECL winner, but not something similar here? Surely the competition in Liverpool is much more intensive and Bobby should get his chance here for long?

 

People always say the youngsters aren’t good enough so we shouldn’t play. You reap what you sow. If they can only getting minutes when they are as good as Owen at 18, or Miley at 17, then those late bloomers really should go elsewhere. We simply will not “develop” them. We just give minutes to the best eleven.

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, Zero said:

It’s for both, keeping your core players fresh for the remaining games, and give experience to the youngsters so they can really step up when needed. It’s  simple long-term squad planning.

 

It’s something Howe should have done regularly, not just this season, not just during injury crisis. And as I said, the problem probably stems deeper than just the manager. It’s the club as a whole. A very simple question, why would Bobby Clark get a guaranteed first team develop path in Liverpool, by that time a ECL winner, but not something similar here? Surely the competition in Liverpool is much more intensive and Bobby should get his chance here for long?

 

People always say the youngsters aren’t good enough so we shouldn’t play. You reap what you sow. If they can only getting minutes when they are as good as Owen at 18, or Miley at 17, then those late bloomers really should go elsewhere. We simply will not “develop” them. We just give minutes to the best eleven.

Clark went pre-takeover, any decent parent would not have their son anywhere near an Ashley-ran Newcastle. 

[Zero]

5 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Clark went pre-takeover, any decent parent would not have their son anywhere near an Ashley-ran Newcastle. 

It doesn’t really that matter who the owner is to a youngster at 16 or 17. If that means more first team minutes and higher chance to break out, they probably welcome that.

 

And Ollie Harrison left us after the takeover. Just a few months ago.

[Mazzy]

17 minutes ago, Zero said:

It doesn’t really that matter who the owner is to a youngster at 16 or 17. If that means more first team minutes and higher chance to break out, they probably welcome that.

 

And Ollie Harrison left us after the takeover. Just a few months ago.

 

Ofcourse it matters. We're making better choices as football club now and that's always important for anyone employed by the club, even a youth player.

 

It's why we've just signed a kid from Man City for our u21s. Because he knows he's got a better chance here then he does there. The facilities are obviously better at Man City but atleast he has an opportunity to progress a bit quicker into the first team here. Just like Bobby Clark would have done if he'd stuck it out for a few more months (not that I'm blaming him for wanting to leave, it was the right decision for him in that moment). 

[macphisto]

18 minutes ago, Zero said:

It doesn’t really that matter who the owner is to a youngster at 16 or 17. If that means more first team minutes and higher chance to break out, they probably welcome that.

 

And Ollie Harrison left us after the takeover. Just a few months ago.

It would matter to me if I was a parent and should to a young player too when the club was as dysfunctional as Newcastle were pre-takeover. 

 

I can't comment on Harrison, my main point was Newcastle under Ashley. 

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

4 hours ago, Erikse said:

I find it kind of funny how the first thing Klopp does when he has a bench like we had in december is to do the exact opposite of what Howe did all december, to actually use his bench for fresh legs. Not only that, but he did it in a cup final, so it wasn't even just about saving legs for next game but crucially for having any fresh legs out there. And guess what, the team didn't fall apart at all. According to what many here said in december, this was clearly a mistake by Klopp. "Howe knows better than you", yeah sure, but Klopp also knows better than you. He also knows better than Howe.

 

I'd imagine that if Howe was the manager in that final he not use a single one of those academy players for the 120 min, sticking with players who can't run, and then some would have people defending him saying "he had no other choice, just look at the bench".

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure if our kids were as good as theirs, he'd be playing them (see Miley).

 

Our equivalent of the kid they threw on up top is currently on loan in the Scottish 3rd tier, for instance. 

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Pretty sure if our kids were as good as theirs, he'd be playing them (see Miley).

 

Our equivalent of the kid they threw on up top is currently on loan in the Scottish 3rd tier, for instance. 

Miley wouldn’t have been getting minutes if the others were fit.  It’s desperation that caused him to play.