Eddie Howe

[clintdempsey]

To be honest it’s been a real bitch of a season in regards to schedule, injuries and plain bad luck. And it probably always would be after last season’s performances where a lot of things fell our way. 
 

I get as frustrated with Eddie and some of the players as anyone from time to time and I do think that mistakes have been made in regards to how we have approached the season. Still it’s important to remember that we as a club and Eddie as a manager (as well as most of the players) are in uncharted waters here. Everyone connected is learning on the go. 
 

As frustrating as this season has been from time to time we’ve had a lot of great experiences, performances and results. And it will only get better - it might take a while but if there’s a manager that I’d put my trust in to better himself and find a way it’s probably Eddie. 
 

European football is still on the cards in some form for next season as well as a chance at the FA Cup. There are more awesome memories to be milked out of the tit that is this season IMO. 
 

 

[The Prophet]

42 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Other than on match day when emotions are high, this thread usually consists of people making fair criticisms or voicing concerns they have about the team, tactics or results.
 

The opposite side of that is people who don’t seem to be able to handle such opinions being voiced and get defensive about it, they don’t challenge the opinion but the fact someone has had the audacity to raise it, who wants to paint a picture of everything being perfect after we pick up a victory and that those criticisms cannot be valid due to us winning.

 

”Go and support Man City then”

 

Fucking hell.?

 

 

 

Aye, there definetly isn't an element who heavily imply they'd bin Howe off, without having the conviction to say it outright. 

 

 

[El Prontonise]

22 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Five points off last season's total after the same amount of games. Win next week and it's two.

 

Nope, it's 8 points off.

 

https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2022-2023-spieltag/24/

 

Edit:  different websites calculate this differently, this way is wrong.

 

 

Edited February 11 by El Prontonise

[Matt1892]

5 minutes ago, El Prontonise said:

 

Nope, it's 8 points off.

 

https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2022-2023-spieltag/24/

Stop being so negative.

[STM]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Aye, there definetly isn't an element who heavily imply they'd bin Howe off, without having the conviction to say it outright. 

 

 

 

This is my big gripe.

 

I've said I don't agree with Howe on Burn. It's a fair cop. Howes got/getting this one wrong.

 

But the "well we don't know how the Saudis will react to us not being in the top 4", crap which does my head in. You can practically see the fingers being crossed that the Saudis might do something ridiculous like sack Howe and hire Mourinho.

 

The idea of Howe not being here terrifies me. There's only a handful of managers in world football who I think are significant upgrades on Howe and those are in the Ancelotti, Pep, Klopp bracket.

 

Fuck me, I'm convinced we have a better manager than the current Bayern Munich manager. We should tread very carefully.

[STM]

For example...

 

Would you theoretically want Mikel Arteta here (I know it wouldn't happen)?

 

Go and have a look at his first couple of seasons at Arsenal? They were so inconsistent (Arteta out anyone?), now he's got them comfortably in the top 4 and (kind of) in the titles races.

 

Again, not convinced at all about Arteta as a manager. He's good sure, is he better than Howe? Put it this way, I think Howe would have done better than Arteta at Arsenal (on that budget) and Arteta certainly couldn't have done what Howe has done here.

 

He's also an absolute weapon.... I don't want to go back to disliking my managers. 

 

I don't want an argument about Arteta as a manager, he's done a good job for Arsenal and won the FA Cup, this is more an overriding point about being carefully about what kind of person and problems could be around the corner.

 

Howes an absolute top bloke, a phenomenal coach and we've had a testing year, which alot of people predicted.

[Matt1892]

I think it’s a fair comment to make about how the Saudi’s will react, if people don’t say it then it won’t make it less of a reality.

 

I have a lot of time for Howe and want a successful club with him as manager; however, we have to be able to discuss his failings and hope he can learn from them.

[STM]

And just to add to the above... I was absolutely foaming about the Luton display last week, so much so that I couldn't even watch the highlights back. 

 

Sometimes you (me) just need to take a step back and see where we are and how far we've come.

 

The idea of us playing in the Europa conference with an even better (injury free) squad next year, sounds a hell of a lot of fun IMO. Let that be our target.

[Dokko]

To be 7th after the last 3 months is decent, but I don't think deserved (going off play) However good teams play poor and win, and I'd much rather that than playing well and losing.

 

There's only really arsenal away which you'd say we don't have much chance to pick up points, but even then it's those games, like villa away, where we can turn up and give it a go. 

 

Get past blackburn and hopefully a favorable home tie and this season might not be the complete write off I had it down as. Clearly Eddie hasn't given up, though it's a shame the club didn't back him in the window. 

[STM]

1 minute ago, Matt1892 said:

I think it’s a fair comment to make about how the Saudi’s will react, if people don’t say it then it won’t make it less of a reality.

 

I have a lot of time for Howe and want a successful club with him as manager; however, we have to be able to discuss his failings and hope he can learn from them.

 

You see even this is OTT. His "failings" man. 

 

I don't know if I'm reading it wrong or it's just me but "failings" is just a word I wouldn't use. 

 

If I talked about Peps "failings" I'd rightly get laughed at but I could easily point to more than one moment where his decisions cost his side a trophy. 

 

On the Saudi point. In a scenario where they sacked Howe, THEY would be wrong, not Howe. Then we could talk about their "failings".

[Kid Icarus]

29 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Five points off last season's total after the same amount of games. Win next week and it's two.

Last season's matches are misleading because game 7 and 25 were postponed, so we're actually now going into a run where we need to win the next 5 just to stay 5 points behind last season's points total. If we win 6 on the bounce we'll go 2 points behind.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Kid Icarus

[Conjo]

How great have we been at set pieces lately? So many different and effective variations. Not sure if my memory is clouded a bit after yesterday, but feels like we've scored from corners or free kicks every other game for a long time now.

[El Prontonise]

7 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Last season's matches are misleading because game 7 and 25 were postponed, so we're actually now going into a run where we need to win the next 5 just to stay 5 points behind last season's points total. If we win 6 on the bounce we'll go 2 points behind.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeap, I've been on 2 websites and they give us either on 41 or 44 points because of the way it's calculated (either via match-day or by a snapshot at a time).

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, El Prontonise said:

Yeap, I've been on 2 websites and they give us either on 41 or 44 points because of the way it's calculated (either via match-day or by a snapshot at a time).

 

It's been a really frustrating, injury ravaged season, but I can't see it as anything other than a success to be probably looking like we'll finish on 60ish points in those circumstances.

 

It really makes you wonder what might have been without the injuries, because without those we were absolutely smashing teams, especially at home.

 

[Tiresias]

There are innate benefits to keeping a manager in long term, even if said manager has flaws. The squad gets to know their methods, its built around the manager he will be able to implement the systems he want. There was a feeling I think in the league that unless you were ferguson or wenger you had a life span as a manager (this maybe mourinho's fault as the clearest example of a manager who burns out in a 3 year cycle) you were brought in, expect to deliver a decent first season then the second season was meant to be when you 'peaked' and then after that the squad would get bored and predictable. 

 

Burnout definitely happens still, Dyche at Burnley seemed to be running out of steam in their last season. I think staying long term relies on good dressing room management, if the results are bad AND the players stop listening or respecting the manager that's really hard to turn around as players know manager will likely be replaced. But if the players know the manager is staying no matter what that gives somewhat more authority. 

 

All this to say, I think a lot of clubs have looked at Arteta's shakey first few seasons and what's happening now, and thought, oh that's a sensible cost effective way of running a club (what a shock!) you don't have to swap and change managers in hope of short term boosts. They look at Chelsea and think oh god we don't want to be that. 

 

I very much doubt that as long as the dressing room is behind Howe his job is in any trouble. I would reckon even if we miss Europe we will stick with Howe, but I imagine patience would start to be tested if half way through next season there isn't any improvement, but that feels unlikely. 

[Pata]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t think this is true anymore about 2 attack minded fullbacks. 
 

City started Stones and Ake at fullback yesterday.  Their most attacking fullback is Walker who is defence first imo.  
 

In the top 5 only Liverpool and Spurs play with 2 attacking fullbacks. 

 

Yeah, Pep has basically completely got rid of fullbacks, no wonder he had a fallout with Cancelo and didn't mind seeing him leave. Walker is now one of the 3 CBs when he plays and Lewis/Stones (and if they are both missing then Akanji) are basically CMs.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Pata

[Pata]

Crossposting this from the top four thread as I feel it's also relevant here:

 

Looking at this seasons expected points on Understat and we (-3.68 points) are pretty much even with Villa at fifth place, fighting for 4th place with them and Chelsea. Spurs (+11.52 points), Man United unsurprisingly (+10.00 points), West Ham (+7.81 points), Liverpool (+7.63 points) and Villa (+6.28 points) have been really lucky so far. Everton are seventh without the deduction well ahead of Brighton, Tottenham, West Ham and Man United.

 

Looking at that data and we've been really unlucky this season on the basis that our main rivals have all been running really good and being quite lucky while we are having a tougher season even without taking into account all the injury problems. Just confirms to me that judging Howe based on this season is not fair on him and he has a clean slate to start the 24/25 season.

[STM]

11 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

There are innate benefits to keeping a manager in long term, even if said manager has flaws. The squad gets to know their methods, its built around the manager he will be able to implement the systems he want. There was a feeling I think in the league that unless you were ferguson or wenger you had a life span as a manager (this maybe mourinho's fault as the clearest example of a manager who burns out in a 3 year cycle) you were brought in, expect to deliver a decent first season then the second season was meant to be when you 'peaked' and then after that the squad would get bored and predictable. 

 

Burnout definitely happens still, Dyche at Burnley seemed to be running out of steam in their last season. I think staying long term relies on good dressing room management, if the results are bad AND the players stop listening or respecting the manager that's really hard to turn around as players know manager will likely be replaced. But if the players know the manager is staying no matter what that gives somewhat more authority. 

 

All this to say, I think a lot of clubs have looked at Arteta's shakey first few seasons and what's happening now, and thought, oh that's a sensible cost effective way of running a club (what a shock!) you don't have to swap and change managers in hope of short term boosts. They look at Chelsea and think oh god we don't want to be that. 

 

I very much doubt that as long as the dressing room is behind Howe his job is in any trouble. I would reckon even if we miss Europe we will stick with Howe, but I imagine patience would start to be tested if half way through next season there isn't any improvement, but that feels unlikely. 

 

Good post. If next season (we have half the injuries) and we are playing similar, then absolutely it's a different discussion.

 

I just can't see it though. I think we'd have to really cock up our transfer window in the summer.

[Matt1892]

53 minutes ago, STM said:

 

You see even this is OTT. His "failings" man. 

 

I don't know if I'm reading it wrong or it's just me but "failings" is just a word I wouldn't use. 

 

If I talked about Peps "failings" I'd rightly get laughed at but I could easily point to more than one moment where his decisions cost his side a trophy. 

 

On the Saudi point. In a scenario where they sacked Howe, THEY would be wrong, not Howe. Then we could talk about their "failings".

Pointing out the historic failings of another clubs manager would be a pointless unless he hasn’t learned from them, which it would be difficult to argue that Pep hasn’t considering he us put together the best side in world football.

 

Slight difference between that and continuing to play Dan Burn against quick wide men knowing the opposition manager will target him as a weak link, then failing to learn from it. 
 

I can change the language to one less likely to hurt your feelings but the point still stands.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Matt1892

[STM]

16 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Pointing out the historic failings of another clubs manager would be a pointless unless he hasn’t learned from them, which it would be difficult to argue that Pep hasn’t considering he us put together the best side in world football.

 

Slight difference between that and continuing to play Dan Burn against quick wide men knowing the opposition manager will target him as a weak link, then failing to learn from it. 
 

I can change the language to one less likely to hurt your feelings but the point still stands.

 

 

 

 

All I'm saying is that I leave terms like "failings" for Tory governments, not for 9/10 managers who've brought us more success than anyone in 20 years. But you do you.

[Mountain]

On 11/02/2024 at 00:16, Orphanage said:

Hush child 

 

This proves my point, nice knockers tho.

[Zero]

On 11/02/2024 at 19:42, STM said:

 

Good post. If next season (we have half the injuries) and we are playing similar, then absolutely it's a different discussion.

 

I just can't see it though. I think we'd have to really cock up our transfer window in the summer.

 

I genuinely think we will spend very little in the coming summer. Likely just 1 or 2 30m signings. 
 

We won’t have major changes. Howe needs to promote from the youth if he wants to have more usable players for selection

[Lush Vlad]

11 minutes ago, Zero said:

 

I genuinely think we will spend very little in the coming summer. Likely just 1 or 2 30m signings. 
 

We won’t have major changes. Howe needs to promote from the youth if he wants to have more usable players for selection

Be very surprised if that were the case. Think it makes sense for 2-3 current first team regulars to be moved on. Along with plenty of deadwood at the end of their contracts. Going to need far more than one or two first team ready players. 

How long are we waiting for these decent youth players then? Miley looks good but not physically ready yet. We’ve not had a standout or anyone that looks remotely decent from our 23’s in how long? 

[Zero]

4 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Be very surprised if that were the case. Think it makes sense for 2-3 current first team regulars to be moved on. Along with plenty of deadwood at the end of their contracts. Going to need far more than one or two first team ready players. 

How long are we waiting for these decent youth players then? Miley looks good but not physically ready yet. We’ve not had a standout or anyone that looks remotely decent from our 23’s in how long? 

 

Yea that’s why we probably need 1-2 more years to overhaul our starting eleven / improve our squad depth before finally take a legitimate title challenge. A top 6-7 finish is more than acceptable. Due to FFP we can’t just do it in one summer. 6-70m transfer kitty is likely the maximum we could spend (unless we really sell BG) and that could probably just bring in one top prospect like Antonio Silva. For the rest we have no choice - either promote from the youth or offer short term contract to those available for free.

 

I believe Howe has the ability to keep top 7 finish for the coming years. Just that he needs to do more than that to take us to the next level, due to FFP unfortunately. Yea you are right it actually requires quite a lot of luck.

[Lush Vlad]

Have you looked at the coming FFP cycle to arrive at that figure? I don’t fully understand it. Nor do I want to, it’s mind numbing  But I know there are a few on here that do.

 

If we are getting rid of the wages of most who are out of contract. Shifting first team players such as Almiron and/or Wilson, who are regularly mentioned by fans and journos as those that are likely to be moved on. Then we’ll be signing a lot more than 1-2 decent players. 
 

I’m not expecting a mass rebuild or necessarily jumping straight back to a top 4 or title challenge. I didn’t realise that’s what we’re discussing here?
 

But even in saying that. We’re not even miles away from top 4 after a poor’ish season and the worst injury crisis since maybe Souness or Roeder? So why delay it and gamble massively on some youth players suddenly coming good in a few years?

 

 

Edited February 15 by Lush Vlad