duo Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, Nine said: Hes not that slow after all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 He's not worth that at all like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 If theres 55 for Botman there's got to be 58 for Paqueta. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Taking the fee out of the equation totally I'm still not totally sold on signing anyone if they're not 100% committed to the club. I'm not suggesting Botman is or isn't 100% on joining us, I've got no idea what he's thinking or what his priorities are. Best case scenario is that he signs, slots into the club and League seamlessly and becomes our equivalent of Kompany. The flip side of that is that he signs but doesn't really adapt and he doesn't settle because it wasn't really the move he wanted. We're forced to sell at a big loss and he moves on. Being totally impartial his best move is to sign for Milan in all honesty. They can probably give him the best chance to get what he wants but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen. Money talks at the end of the day, if Lille refuse to accept Milan's offer then he has 1 option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I'm hoping that's not the up front figure but it could work out to 55m if we get champs league etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 minute ago, midds said: Taking the fee out of the equation totally I'm still not totally sold on signing anyone if they're not 100% committed to the club. I'm not suggesting Botman is or isn't 100% on joining us, I've got no idea what he's thinking or what his priorities are. Best case scenario is that he signs, slots into the club and League seamlessly and becomes our equivalent of Kompany. The flip side of that is that he signs but doesn't really adapt and he doesn't settle because it wasn't really the move he wanted. We're forced to sell at a big loss and he moves on. Being totally impartial his best move is to sign for Milan in all honesty. They can probably give him the best chance to get what he wants but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen. Money talks at the end of the day, if Lille refuse to accept Milan's offer then he has 1 option. Thing is do you think Bruno would be here had Liverpool or Man City been in for him ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Haven’t seen anywhere near enough of him. Other than most of the games against Chelsea and his YT highlights. But I thought he looked quite slow and went to ground a lot. Seems like mad money, to me. Even if a load it is made up of add ons. Doesn’t seem like he wants to be here, either. Can’t say I blame him. Milan are a bigger club and had the best defender in modern history in his ear. I’m sure prem scouts know a lot more than I do and if he comes. He’ll prove me well and truly wrong. But feel a bit meh about it all. Considering his profile and how highly rated he os. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) Theres also a middle ground here, it doesnt mean that hes not keen on coming here just because his favoured move is Milan. Edited June 10, 2022 by Nine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanista Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Menace said: Good post but a bit of waffle, Serie A teams will never compete with Prem teams financially, not now or ever. For all the "pull" Milan have, you still signed Origi, a striker who is mid level Prem at best. Milan wouldn't challenge top 4 in the Prem imo, maybe top 6. Viewing figures and TV deals alone will make sure that the gap is never even close - compare Championship viewing figures with Serie A and you will see what I'm talking about. With all due respect, if you told me that the EPL would overtake Serie A in the late 90's or hell, even in 2005, I would have laughed at you. These things are cycles. As far as Serie A teams, it is really about the old entrenched interests, government-owned stadiums in particular, that really hold back Italian teams earning the money they should. As I said, American investors are betting heavily on Serie A, and in particular on breaking into the North American market. They're investing billions, because you can't buy the big Spanish clubs, nor can you buy the big German ones, it's really only in Italy and in England that you can buy big clubs. What will happen in the future? I'm not sure. I just know that money is coming into Italy, and the vast majority of it is American and they seem to banking on the American and Chinese markets, where Italian teams do very well, actually. However, I'm less concerned with how Serie A does, as Juventus will be fine, while Inter are... well, they're in shambles like Barca. However, Milan's financial growth is... impressive. We've increased our revenue by like 37% per year, for two years. With a stadium, alone, the projections are that Milan's revenues will more than double what they were at when they were taken over. The growth of our sponsorships are also, about to double, next year (at least). If you want to talk about numbers, I'd be more than happy to share them. I did not want to get into a tiff (is that the right word?) but the idea that we wouldn't challenge for top four is... hilarious to me. City and Liverpool are, currently, top class teams, no doubt. Sure, City and Pep can't beat Lyon in Europe, but who cares? That's just the team that has won the EPL like 4 out of 5 times. Being bounced out by Monaco isn't embarrassing, of course not! That being said, I don't think, right now, we could challenge them in the league. Maybe in a 2-3 years, but not yet. Otherwise: am I supposed to be afraid of Chelsea? Hell, are you guys afraid of them? Or how about Spurs, who are littered with Serie A rejects like Bentancur and Kulusevski? They've become top players in your league. Now, I could bring up how Bruno Fernandes was a failure in Serie A, or that Mohamed Salah scored more in the Prem than he ever did in Serie A (Lukaku scored more for West Brom than he ever did for Inter in the league); but those are arguments devoid of context, because I think different players suit different teams, regardless of league. Origi is a depth signing, most strikers today are terrible, you're acting like we're making Origi the center of our squad, lol, rumors are that we want this kid named Scamacca, long-term. I think Milan would finish 3rd in the EPL, over Chelsea, but behind City and Liverpool. I just can't see us being behind Man Utd, West Ham, Spurs, and Arsenal. I think we would beat those teams, comfortably. We've played against better Conte sides, and beat them, forgive me if I am not afraid of Arteta, Moyes, Conte, or whatever burning fire of garbage is happening over at United. If I'm bullish, I think in 2-3 years, we should be able to challenge for the CL. Maldini took over 3 years ago, and it took him a year to challenge for the title, first season he got 6th (first manager was terrible, he got fired), then we got 2nd, mostly due to injuries and a lack of depth, but underestimate us at your peril. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 43 minutes ago, NE27 said: Why is the premier league the most watched league worldwide btw? (I'm guessing it is here mind, could be wrong?) I sort of get now why it might be, but I out that down to the insane wealth of owners that have stepped in, but what initiated the rise and wish to invest in the league globally? Serie A and Italian football was big for me as a youngin in the 90's mind, had a nice inter top in 94 which literally fell of my body the amount I wore it to football training. Think having a foothold in parts of the world like Asia and Scandinavia and the Anglosphere advantages even when the Bundesliga, Serie A and La Liga were miles ahead and Le Championat competitive helped when the league started growing. Arguably the Premier League/football league was always popular globally, maybe even the most popular and it just went mainstream when football did. Just thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 It’s all conjecture as to how much he does or doesn’t want to sign and with whom. It’s silly to speculate about how much he loves this club or that. My assumption is that he is going to eventually sign with a club he wants to play for. There are plenty of reasons for delay and I wouldn’t assume any have to do with not wanting to sign. And I have confidence that if we identified Botman as worth 40+ mil, he’s going to be very very good. Our player identification has been pretty spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, madras said: Thing is do you think Bruno would be here had Liverpool or Man City been in for him ? No, he'd have gone for the better option which, as far as we can make out, is Milan for Botman I've never really seen him play so I'm not sure if he's worth what we're offering I'm just unsure about signing someone (anyone) for massive money if they really wanted a move to a different club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 AC winning the CL is like RM winning it, it just seems a natural state of affairs. I’m happy you guys won your league and seem to be on the long road to recovery, again Milan are a famous club, steeped in history and one synonymous with being a giant of the game, even as a kid not knowing much about the club you just knew they were big hitters. Some of my fave ever players have played in your colours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I hope that 55mil offer isn't true. It's a world away from not wanting clubs to take advantage of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanista Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 My impression of Botman is that he's essentially VVD in terms of style. Watching him for Lille, you can see that he can pass, but Lille this year were terrible. He is very aggressive, and I think what many saw as mistakes on his part, were really him covering up for his teammates defensive mistakes. He's a very strong player, there's no doubt about it. My only worry is that if you play a high-line, I don't think he has VVD's speed. VVD is fast, particularly for his size, and his positioning his excellent. Botman is slower than VVD, so he will have to make up for it with his positioning. He's a player that you will have to develop and be patient with. If you expect him to come in and lead the backline from day one, I fear he might have a tough time. I also get the sense that he would thrive either in a low-block defensive line, rather than something more aggressive. Unless you can pair him with a faster CB a la Wesley Fofana or Fik Tomori. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Milanista said: My only worry is that if you play a high-line, I don't think he has VVD's speed. VVD is fast, particularly for his size, and his positioning his excellent. Botman is slower than VVD Thats this thread crashed for tonight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, duo said: There’s no way we’re offering that much imo (could be with with massive add-ons for Champion’s League qualification etc.). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facundo Ferreyra Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, dcmk said: I hope that 55mil offer isn't true. It's a world away from not wanting clubs to take advantage of us. It's Sky Italia, it won't be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyCisse Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Just now, Facundo Ferreyra said: It's Sky Italia, it won't be. Think it’s just the Italian media trying to save face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 21 minutes ago, midds said: Taking the fee out of the equation totally I'm still not totally sold on signing anyone if they're not 100% committed to the club. I'm not suggesting Botman is or isn't 100% on joining us, I've got no idea what he's thinking or what his priorities are. Best case scenario is that he signs, slots into the club and League seamlessly and becomes our equivalent of Kompany. The flip side of that is that he signs but doesn't really adapt and he doesn't settle because it wasn't really the move he wanted. We're forced to sell at a big loss and he moves on. Being totally impartial his best move is to sign for Milan in all honesty. They can probably give him the best chance to get what he wants but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen. Money talks at the end of the day, if Lille refuse to accept Milan's offer then he has 1 option. I think the second paragraph there would be 100% the case under former managers/owners. However one of the things about Howe from both our players and former players is the quality of the coaching and motivation of the players. He might arrive unconvinced but the rigorous approach and drive to improve the clubs in all areas is the sort of thing that will drive buy in. Listening to him speak he’s seems very professional and motivated - those things should help him adapt regardless of if we are his ‘first’ choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanista Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Lille really need money, so they are trying to drive up the price of Botman. It is probably them trying to create an auction. They even tried to rope Spurs and Man Utd in, where both clubs later told reporters that they weren't interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, McCormick said: There’s no way we’re offering that much imo (could be with with massive add-ons for Champion’s League qualification etc.). Like the Bayern add on’s for the Mane deal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Botman does look relatively slow. Obviously he can offset that with decent positioning and good game awareness. With Targett confirmed, our whole defence lacks a bit of recovery pace, but I'm sure Howe is more than aware of that and he'll set us up accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 It's worth remembering that the only time Botman has gone on record (that I know of) about Newcastle United was after the January transfer window when he said; Newcastle is working on a great project and I thought it would be fun to be a part of it. Especially if you look at where Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain once started. Milan may be his first choice. But I can't read those quotes above and think "That's a guy who will come reluctantly, unmotivated and probably flop as a result" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, midds said: No, he'd have gone for the better option which, as far as we can make out, is Milan for Botman I've never really seen him play so I'm not sure if he's worth what we're offering I'm just unsure about signing someone (anyone) for massive money if they really wanted a move to a different club. I'm not so sure. Right this very minute maybe, due to going for titles imminently and Champs league next season but he also has to think of 3 or 4yrs down the line when there's a chance he could be doing that and more in a higher profile league at a club who look very much like they could do a Man City/Chelsea. Get in a Paqueta alongside Bruno, a Diaby like player, young hungry players to the top clubs are looking at and he'll settle. Edit....totally agree with the price mind, don't mind if that quoted is half up front, the rest results based. Edited June 10, 2022 by madras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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