England’s Dan Burn

[thomas]

a fit joelinton eases 90% of the pressure on burn tbh but we are where we are.

 

whatever howe's attempt at adapting to that i guess we don't have the personnel to do so effectively. would like to see tino more.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Blaming Burn for the 2nd when the ball went through Dubravka is some going like

 

From Semenyo picking the ball up about 50 yards from goal, Burn didn't get within 3-4 yards of him leading him getting a shot on target from inside the box. It wasn't a pace issue, was just poor judgement again. That's been the worrying thing for me about today's goal and the Elanga one last week. Can live with him being done for pace like the Luton winger, that's not his fault.

 

Could be similar to what I've just put into the Dubravka thread about the second goal possibly being mentally he didn't trust his feet. Maybe the way he's been done for pace up to the Forest game has played on his mind and it's impacting his decision making. Who knows.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by Optimistic Nut

[Lotus]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

From Semenyo picking the ball up about 50 yards from goal, Burn didn't get within 3-4 yards of him leading him getting a shot on target from inside the box. It wasn't a pace issue, was just poor judgement again. That's been the worrying thing for me about today's goal and the Elanga one last week. Can live with him being done for pace like the Luton winger, that's not his fault.

 

Personally I think it was a pace issue. I thought Burn was worried if he tried to close him he'd just knock it past him. Given Burn's lack of pace I think he took the best position he could. 

Obviously if Tino had been in that position that particular shot probably wouldn't have ended up the same way. Other problems may have come up but I doubt that one.

 

Would really need to see Tino start a few games in succession before making a judgement call.

Fwiw, last season I wanted Targett to come on for Burn and couldn't understand why he wasn't playing. When he finally got on it was obvious why Targett had been on the bench...

Can't tell with Tino until he gets a run in the team. 

 

[pubteam]

4 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

From Semenyo picking the ball up about 50 yards from goal, Burn didn't get within 3-4 yards of him leading him getting a shot on target from inside the box. It wasn't a pace issue, was just poor judgement again. That's been the worrying thing for me about today's goal and the Elanga one last week. Can live with him being done for pace like the Luton winger, that's not his fault.

I always thought that if a defender can't make a challenge they need to try and force the attacker out wide, away from the dangerous areas.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, pubteam said:

I always thought that if a defender can't make a challenge they need to try and force the attacker out wide, away from the dangerous areas.

 

He got from there, to there, with no pressure on him. The surface is zippy as hell, your keepers just threw one in, it's poor judgement/poor defending to allow a forward that much time to weigh up a shot from there.  Even if the keeper saves it there's a chance it falls to Solanke for a tap-in. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by Optimistic Nut

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Wolfcastle said:

Is there a chances to goal ratio for present, earlier this season with Pope and last season.

Pope sometimes had little or nothing to do but did ,make regular good saves. Feels like we concede more chances now but not 2, 3, 4 goals worth of them

I think I saw it in the Howe thread - @Jagten put it up.  Our expected goals against is now worse than the Bruce era - so we’re easier to create chances against.  I also don’t think Dubravka is always the best at keeping them out.

 

The loss of Pope has the back line so much deeper, as Dubravka is a GK who just seems rooted to his box.  So the loss of Pope likely means that we concede more chances, and then also concede more goals. 

[pubteam]

I'd just like see tino given the chance to start, it's doing Dan burn no favours starting him week in week out. Tino has looked solid and offers far more from an attacking perspective.

[Displayname]

4 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

He got from there, to there, with no pressure on him. The surface is zippy as hell, your keepers just threw one in, it's poor judgement/poor defending to allow a forward that much time to weigh up a shot from there.  Even if the keeper saves it there's a chance it falls to Solanke for a tap-in. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Burn probably did the right decision considering his pace, but thats the problem isnt it.

[pubteam]

Just now, Displayname said:

Burn probably did the right decision considering his pace, but thats the problem isnt it.

If only we had a full back with pace to replace him with ?

[Coffee_Johnny]

3 minutes ago, pubteam said:

If only we had a full back with pace to replace him with ?

It’s one of our centre backs that has been done for pace, leading to a goal,  two games in a row now. Shame we don’t have one of them with pace. 

[El Prontonise]

I always felt Burn was a player when he lost a yard of pace was gonna struggle so badly, i feel he's probably lost a 1/2 a yard at times this season.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by El Prontonise

[Holmesy]

35 minutes ago, Heron said:

Dan Burn has strategically been left wide open and made our scapegoat as a result. Anyone 'blaming' Dan Burn needs to look directly at Eddie Howe's failures. How you can berate someone for giving their absolute all for the team they absolutely adore is beyind me. If you cannot get the above you're a fucking idiot.

It is 100% Eddie Howe’s fault, 100%. Burn is absolutely the wrong choice for whatever we’re trying to execute right now.

[80]

2 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Partially aye, but I put it more on Dubravka. There's a video somewhere of Burn and Pope talking about how Burn covers the near post for shots on that side and anything that goes the other way is covered by Pope. It was the first thing that came to mind when that went in.

Putting the merits of Burn aside for a second, I remember the video you're talking about and you're right, I think that's exactly the kind of micro-coordination we're missing out on since Dubravka came in.

[Dr.Spaceman]

I think he suffers from the managers tactics just as much as he does from his deficiencies skill-wise. He's far too isolated time and time again, which is infuriating as we seemingly do very little to stop it from happening.

 

As has been mentioned, he needs taking out the firing line and given a week or two to reset.

[St. Maximin]

5 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

They don't, it's how teams played a few years ago but not now, not even Liverpool - Robertson's often on the bench and Trent plays in midfield. And when they did, they had 3 streetwise midfielders to cover them, at the moment we don't. Man City play Ake at LB and set up similar lopsided way to us too. There's no top team in the league that you see play like that now.

 

As for the rest, a clown show? Really?  This is why people go on about the criticism and scapegoating being over the top. You should be embarrassed.

 

 

 

This doesn’t seem unfair and I’m confused. Original post seems more of a criticism of Howe than scapegoating Burn. Leaving aside Burn’s performance, Tino was very good when he played earlier on this season and without assuming he’s the saviour of our season, he never looked like he’d get outpaced on a regular basis like Burn would. That’s not Burn’s fault though and I think he does seem like a very easy target, but it’s because there’s a pretty obvious alternative who has proven himself, whereas the likes of Botman, Longstaff et al don’t currently have that. 
 

Ultimately that’s a Howe issue though and quite concerning he’s not addressed it the bigger picture. Our home form of recent has been abysmal when you consider the goals were conceding and I have to say Howe’s approach has really cost us and in the case of Burn, is exposing him and making him a very easy target. 

[Lush Vlad]

I have a feeling that we might play a back 5 against Arsenal. So probably getting worked up over nothing.
 

But if Burn is playing in his usual isolated role against Saka. Without the help he was afforded against them from the wide men and LCM, like the last games against Arsenal. 
 

Then a lot of the flak coming Howe’s way about favourites and blind spots would be warranted. 
 

He’s been given the runaround against far worse players and teams. It would be suicidal tactics. 

[ExiledGeordie]

4 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

I have a feeling that we might play a back 5 against Arsenal. So probably getting worked up over nothing.
 

But if Burn is playing in his usual isolated role against Saka. Without the help he was afforded against them from the wide men and LCM, like the last games against Arsenal. 
 

Then a lot of the flak coming Howe’s way about favourites and blind spots would be warranted. 
 

He’s been given the runaround against far worse players and teams. It would be suicidal tactics. 

If he plays Burn against Saka in the current team and how we’re playing and we get done with Burn or that side being culpable then he should rightly be pulled up on it and serious questions will have to be asked.

[TRon]

Burn would look fine in a Steve Bruce line up where there is no space in behind him because we are sat deep. In a back 3 where those around him are pushing up, he's just never going to be able to cope if the man he's up again has space to run against him one on one. It's easy to forget that when Howe first took over Bruce's team we didn't try to dominate possession as much because of the players we had, and we had a very mean defence for about a year.

[Displayname]

1 hour ago, Lush Vlad said:

I have a feeling that we might play a back 5 against Arsenal. So probably getting worked up over nothing.
 

But if Burn is playing in his usual isolated role against Saka. Without the help he was afforded against them from the wide men and LCM, like the last games against Arsenal. 
 

Then a lot of the flak coming Howe’s way about favourites and blind spots would be warranted. 
 

He’s been given the runaround against far worse players and teams. It would be suicidal tactics. 

Its clearly already warranted.

[NWMag]

12 hours ago, Lotus said:

 

Personally I think it was a pace issue. I thought Burn was worried if he tried to close him he'd just knock it past him. Given Burn's lack of pace I think he took the best position he could. 

Obviously if Tino had been in that position that particular shot probably wouldn't have ended up the same way. Other problems may have come up but I doubt that one.

 

Would really need to see Tino start a few games in succession before making a judgement call.

Fwiw, last season I wanted Targett to come on for Burn and couldn't understand why he wasn't playing. When he finally got on it was obvious why Targett had been on the bench...

Can't tell with Tino until he gets a run in the team. 

 

Tino has already had a run in the team, was man of the match in most of the games. Should have kept his place once Burn was fit and scandalous he didn’t tbh. 
 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

29 minutes ago, TRon said:

Burn would look fine in a Steve Bruce line up where there is no space in behind him because we are sat deep. In a back 3 where those around him are pushing up, he's just never going to be able to cope if the man he's up again has space to run against him one on one. It's easy to forget that when Howe first took over Bruce's team we didn't try to dominate possession as much because of the players we had, and we had a very mean defence for about a year.

The idea's to prevent teams hitting it long though. Having a physical back line while limiting space for the opposition in midfield, theoretically, leads to them trying to hoof it to a forward which the defence eats up. Burn is well suited to that, he's great at intercepting balls across the ground too, again, handy when the opposition is looking to find an outlet.

 

It obviously never worked against Luton, and in general it's going to be more effective when we're pressing like we do when at full strengh, and have a sweeper keeper, but I'm still struggling to remember Semenyo taking advantage of it in the way people expected. Great strike for the goal though.

 

 

20 touches, 8 passes. No aerial's won despite being a physical player. Ogbene was a different story...

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2024 by Hanshithispantz

[Lush Vlad]

42 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Its clearly already warranted.

Some of it is, sure. Nobody is perfect. 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said:

The idea's to prevent teams hitting it long though. Having a physical back line while limiting space for the opposition in midfield, theoretically, leads to them trying to hoof it to a forward which the defence eats up. Burn is well suited to that, he's great at intercepting balls across the ground too, again, handy when the opposition is looking to find an outlet.

 

It obviously never worked against Luton, and in general it's going to be more effective when we're pressing like we do when at full strengh, and have a sweeper keeper, but I'm still struggling to remember Semenyo taking advantage of it in the way people expected. Great strike for the goal though.

 

 

20 touches, 8 passes. No aerial's won despite being a physical player. Ogbene was a different story...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that works fine when we are close to full strength, but when you have so many key players out who are integral to keeping the ball and pressing it effectively (Joelinton, Willock for example) then the gaps start to appear. I don't know, I think there has to be a reason we are conceding two goals a game every game at the moment. Not to mention we look much less likely to score them with our strikers missing.

[St1pe]

At this point I just think it’s poor management by Howe. Burn isn’t a bad player but his confidence is shot and he’s clearly targeted by every opposition team so not only is he under constant attack from the other team every mistake he makes is highlighted by the fans. 
 

It’s not entirely dissimilar to Lascelles’ drop in form and a break from the first 11 did him so much good. 
 

Tino is such a ready made replacement as well so it’s not like the injury issues affect this one. So this is on Howe for me, I hope he adapts. 

[Andy84]

Baffling thing to me is that Burn has missed a of football this season.  Tino deputised absolutely fine and excelled