Matt Targett

[SUPERTOON]

I don’t think there is much wrong with his attacking tbh, he has excellent delivery and I think his attacking plat will look better with better attacking players in the side that we will most likely sign in the summer.

[macphisto]

7 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

I think people underestimate how good he is going forward. Think people have been conditioned to having Dummett so long that good defensively = shit offensively. He can defend but he can cross a decent ball too, overlap (shame ASM underuses that outlet) and can be a threat too, he could have scored two at Brentford the other month.

He hasn't scored or had an assist in 11 matches for us. 

 

Villa 2019/20= 28 matches, 1 goal, 2 assists

Villa 2020/21= 38 matches, 0 goals, 2 assists

Villa 2021/22= 17 matches, 1 goal, 1 assist

 

Those figures tell you why he's available for £15 million. Good defender but offers little going forward.

 

[PauloGeordio]

1 minute ago, macphisto said:

He hasn't scored or had an assist in 11 matches for us. 

 

Villa 2019/20= 28 matches, 1 goal, 2 assists

Villa 2020/21= 38 matches, 0 goals, 2 assists

Villa 2021/22= 17 matches, 1 goal, 1 assist

 

Those figures tell you why he's available for £15 million. Good defender but offers little going forward.

 

He had a winning goal assist in the Leicester game ?

[STM]

Find me a left back who defends like Targett but also gets elite level goals and assists and we can talk.

 

Unless someone comes along and says "X player can do both", it's a pointless conversation.

 

I'd be gutted if we regressed defensively.

[SUPERTOON]

If we didn’t sign him for whatever reason, I would go for Cucurella.

[Happinesstan]

He rarely wastes the ball. That's good enough for me.

[STM]

It's like trying to run before we can walk. This is an issue I'd hope to have in 2 years time, when we are playing passing, progressive football.

[Happinesstan]

I actually thought he was better with Murphy or Frasier in front of him. He was a constant threat. He did tire quicker, which led to him playing a couple of stray passes, late on. If he and ASM can work it out it will be great for both of them.

[STM]

4 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

I actually thought he was better with Murphy or Frasier in front of him. He was a constant threat. He did tire quicker, which led to him playing a couple of stray passes, late on. If he and ASM can work it out it will be great for both of them.

 

I was saying the other day that I'm convinced he's been told not to overlap when ASM is in front of him, in order to allow ASM to hold his position on the left flank without worrying about tracking back.

 

It's an entirely different conversation but it's stunning how much more dangerous we looked down our left with Fraser and Targett, West Ham, Brentford and Southampton games come to mind.

[PauloGeordio]

10 minutes ago, STM said:

 

I was saying the other day that I'm convinced he's been told not to overlap when ASM is in front of him, in order to allow ASM to hold his position on the left flank without worrying about tracking back.

 

It's an entirely different conversation but it's stunning how much more dangerous we looked down our left with Fraser and Targett, West Ham, Brentford and Southampton games come to mind.

Fraser is drilled and follows instructions. Maxi God love him is Maxi! 

[macphisto]

If he is not what Howe is looking for then you are essentially espousing a philosophy of putting individual players before the system of play which almost inevitably leads to dysfunctional clubs (Everton, Man U, PSG). Yes, Targett is a great defender but he offers little going forward, you can't get away from his stats. I would much rather have a player who is not as solid a defender but offers more going forward if he fits more into Howe's style of play (the system of play is more important than any player). That way the club gets used to a style of play and when we do upgrade, we are only upgrading the player and not upgrading the player and changing the style of play at the same time.  

 

To be fair to Howe, his priority next season should be developing Willock, Joelinton and ASM and seeing if they can be incorporated into his system of play in the future. Essentially we already have enough players who need to adapt to what Howe is after without buying new players unsuited to his style of play (if that applies to Targett). 

 

@greydos We don't need to be afraid of the top six if we had more of an attacking fullback, only the top two. Take away Man City and Liverpool and I would fancy our chances against any of the other teams next season, particularly at home.

 

 

 

[macphisto]

43 minutes ago, STM said:

Find me a left back who defends like Targett but also gets elite level goals and assists and we can talk.

 

Unless someone comes along and says "X player can do both", it's a pointless conversation.

 

I'd be gutted if we regressed defensively.

Based on this rationale then you wouldn't sign the equivalent of Trent Alexander-Arnold at left back if there was one available? I'd say Targett is better defensively than TAA. 

[STM]

6 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Based on this rationale then you wouldn't sign the equivalent of Trent Alexander-Arnold at left back if there was one available? I'd say Targett is better defensively than TAA. 

 

I'm actually asking you to provide a plausible transfer option.

 

Also, put Trent in a side that's asked to defend for 60% of the game and he will make mistakes.

[The College Dropout]

17 minutes ago, macphisto said:

If he is not what Howe is looking for then you are essentially espousing a philosophy of putting individual players before the system of play which almost inevitably leads to dysfunctional clubs (Everton, Man U, PSG). Yes, Targett is a great defender but he offers little going forward, you can't get away from his stats. I would much rather have a player who is not as solid a defender but offers more going forward if he fits more into Howe's style of play (the system of play is more important than any player). That way the club gets used to a style of play and when we do upgrade, we are only upgrading the player and not upgrading the player and changing the style of play at the same time.  

 

To be fair to Howe, his priority next season should be developing Willock, Joelinton and ASM and seeing if they can be incorporated into his system of play in the future. Essentially we already have enough players who need to adapt to what Howe is after without buying new players unsuited to his style of play (if that applies to Targett). 

 

@greydos We don't need to be afraid of the top six if we had more of an attacking fullback, only the top two. Take away Man City and Liverpool and I would fancy our chances against any of the other teams next season, particularly at home.

 

 

 

It's not like. At least 2 of them should not be automatic starters next season. Ideally all 3. His priority next season is to get us into Europe - or close.

[macphisto]

10 minutes ago, STM said:

 

I'm actually asking you to provide a plausible transfer option.

 

Also, put Trent in a side that's asked to defend for 60% of the game and he will make mistakes.

I'm not going to start suggesting players as I don't know enough about the European markets (if you had asked me in January about midfielders then I would never of suggested Bruno) but I would say Howe views it as a crucial position in the team as we did bid for Digne and Gosens in January, French and German internationals. I have no doubt there will be plenty of other players out there who offer more going forward than Targett; whether they are as good defensively may be a trade-off Howe is willing to make.

 

Regarding the last sentence, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? I inferred TAA is not a great defender by saying Targett is better defensively. I'd also like to think that after this summer we will not be defending 60% of the time next season. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by macphisto

[The College Dropout]

Also Walker, Zinchenko don't get many assists or goals. Chelsea, Spurs play with wing-backs which is a different position entirely.

 

The best teams in the division that play a back 4 have at least 1 conservative first choice fullback.

 

I would replace ASM before Targett.

 

Aston Villa want to become Everton and are sitting in 15th after spending £150m on players that flatter to deceive. I don't care why they let Targett go.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by The College Dropout

[macphisto]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It's not like. At least 2 of them should not be automatic starters next season. Ideally all 3. His priority next season is to get us into Europe - or close.

You know I was on about developing players, you're just being pedantic brining European qualification into it. What I meant is his priority with regards to developing players should be those three as they are the ones where the jury is out but all have the potential to fit into Howe's future plans and style of play.

[Oregon_Geordie]

Folk talking about not signing him, need to give themselves a shake. Should be the first signing and will be great for the next 5 years.

Maybe becoming a back up after the next 1/2. His attacking game can be encouraged as we retain the ball better and we get a stronger midfield and attack.

 

Must sign for me.

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Also Walker, Zinchenko don't get many assists or goals. Chelsea, Spurs play with wing-backs which is a different position entirely.

 

The best teams in the division that play a back 4 have at least 1 conservative first choice fullback.

 

I would replace ASM before Targett.

 

Aston Villa want to become Everton and are sitting in 15th after spending £150m on players that flatter to deceive. I don't care why they let Targett go.

 

 

 

And? This whole discussion was started earlier on by someone mentioning the Waugh article today in the Athletic which stated Targett might not be the automatic signing that everyone assumes as Howe likes attacking fullbacks. If that is what Howe is looking for then I'd fully back him in looking elsewhere as Targett is not an attacking fullback which his time at Villa and with us illustrates. I have no problem with Targett as a defender, all I have said is that Howe should buy the player best suited to his system.

 

I'm pleased you mention Everton as that is exactly the model people are advocating we follow if you buy players who are not suited to the style of play a manager wants to implement. If Howe sees Targett as his type of player then great, I'd be all for that. If he is not his type of player then move on to someone else. It would be crazy to buy a player not suited to your style of play no matter how good they are, that is where Everton, Man U and PSG have gone wrong in the past.

[The College Dropout]

28 minutes ago, macphisto said:

And? This whole discussion was started earlier on by someone mentioning the Waugh article today in the Athletic which stated Targett might not be the automatic signing that everyone assumes as Howe likes attacking fullbacks. If that is what Howe is looking for then I'd fully back him in looking elsewhere as Targett is not an attacking fullback which his time at Villa and with us illustrates. I have no problem with Targett as a defender, all I have said is that Howe should buy the player best suited to his system.

 

I'm pleased you mention Everton as that is exactly the model people are advocating we follow if you buy players who are not suited to the style of play a manager wants to implement. If Howe sees Targett as his type of player then great, I'd be all for that. If he is not his type of player then move on to someone else. It would be crazy to buy a player not suited to your style of play no matter how good they are, that is where Everton, Man U and PSG have gone wrong in the past.

Not sure I agree here.

 

I think if you let managers have too much autonomy in the transfer market, you'll end up with a disjointed squad as managers come and go. That's what happened at Man U (among other things) and Everton (among other things). Only exceptions if you're willing to bet everything that this 1 manager is your guy e.g. Conte, Pep, Klopp. I can see Villa making the same mistakes Everton made. Spent the summer signing playmakers, wide players and 2 first team strikers... brought in a new manager who has brought in his own playmaker (on astronomical wages), only plays 1 upfront, no wide players and spent £30m on an inferior fullback on astronomical wages. All for a manager that is not proven. If it doesn't work, they're saddled with the Everton problem.

 

I think you sign a core group of players that suit a general style for the club and give the manager 1 or 2 just for him. That's the RB model, Madrid and Chelsea do similar. Ultimately, Howe himself is a transitionary managerial appointment. Is he the man to get us into the top 4? Let's get quality players of a particular hard working profile, if Howe doesn't work out we'll get in someone that will make it work.

 

I'm not living or dying behind Targett here. If we have legit better players with the right attitude we should get them. But we should avoid Targett out, Digne in type disaster transfers.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by The College Dropout

[nufc123]

Turning down Targett for £15m is crazy. Been the best leftback behind Mitchell/Cresswell and the top teams. A no brainer.

[macphisto]

35 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Not sure I agree here.

 

I think if you let managers have too much autonomy in the transfer market, you'll end up with a disjointed squad as managers come and go. That's what happened at Man U (among other things) and Everton (among other things). Only exceptions if you're willing to bet everything that this 1 manager is your guy e.g. Conte, Pep, Klopp. I can see Villa making the same mistakes Everton made. Spent the summer signing playmakers, wide players and 2 first team strikers... brought in a new manager who has brought in his own playmaker (on astronomical wages), only plays 1 upfront, no wide players and spent £30m on an inferior fullback on astronomical wages. All for a manager that is not proven. If it doesn't work, they're saddled with the Everton problem.

 

I think you sign a core group of players that suit a general style for the club and give the manager 1 or 2 just for him. That's the RB model, Madrid and Chelsea do similar. Ultimately, Howe himself is a transitionary managerial appointment. Is he the man to get us into the top 4? Let's get quality players of a particular hard working profile, if Howe doesn't work out we'll get in someone that will make it work.

 

I'm not living or dying behind Targett here. If we have legit better players with the right attitude we should get them. But we should avoid Targett out, Digne in type disaster transfers.

 

 

 

I agree about a manager not having too much power but I would say that's where the importance of a Director of Football comes in as they set the philosophy for the club to follow and appoint appropriate managers to fulfil that philosophy. I guess the crucial question for the future is how rigid will the club's philosophy be in regards to appointing managers? 

 

With respect to signing players, I like the idea that Liverpool follow in having a transfer committee where in our case it would possibly be Howe, Ashworth, scouting team and the data team. 

 

Reading what you've said above, I don't think we're miles apart in our view but my emphasis is not on "Targett out" as he's not our player but rather "Targett in" at the expense of a player more suited to Howe's style of play. If he is suited to Howe's style of play then great, I have no issues at all. I would imagine Howe and Ashworth are not far apart in their views. We will undoubtedly make mistakes in the transfer market and but based on the club's pragmatism and business in January together with Ashworth's input I am sure we will avoid the mistakes that Everton made. 

 

A few months back, Staveley and Ghodoussi went to look around Man City and I am sure they must have discussed the mistakes City experienced in their first few years and also the importance of having a strong infrastructure in place. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by macphisto

[greydos]

This whole idea that Targett may not fit into Howe’s style is silly. Targett’s just helped Howe pick up the 2nd most points in the league in 2022, picking up wins in 60%+ of his starts.

 

In the pre-Norwich press conference Howe has said that he needs to be and is: (1) adaptable on style, and (2) enjoying the way we play this year. Now Howe will change to add a bit more control next year. That means more short passing around defence and midfield. Nothing I’ve seen says Targett can’t play in such a team. He’s not Lascelles on the ball!

 

Also this point about lack of assists is so harsh. Our team is light on goals and finishers. So when can he get a lot of assists? We won loads by the odd goal. More pertinent is whether he progresses the ball safely (though even that stat is hurt by Wood’s inability to trap a ball) and plays key passes. The eye test says he’s good at both

[OverThere]

IMO Targett is one of the top 3 players on the team.

 

We should sign him, even though we may be attacking more in the future. 15M for this quality of player is a massive bargain and allows the money to be spent on what we all know we need and that is a big time striker.

[Fantail Breeze]

Why wouldn’t we sign him? At worst he’d be a significantly improved back up option for us and a relatively modest price.

 

He’s shown he can be a steady defender.

 

We need more options than 11 players, we need to improve the whole squad and he does that.