Groundhog63 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, gdm said: I understand how frustrated and annoyed you are but the club are clearly trying to grow the fan base and ensure it’s not a closed shop for home tickets. That’s probably one of the main reasons they haven’t capped the memberships. They want to give more people a chance to experience St James park in the premier league. The fact they have introduced International memberships also highlights that fact. We might not like it but that’d the way it is and the ‘price of success’ and the new ownership. I dare say it was much the same in the 90s when things exploded under Keegan. I remember back then I could only get tickets for cup games or friendlies Total human nature to view the world through one's own prism and be enraged when things you've become accustomed to change. I get that. Also understand the feeling of ownership of these things one's become used to. Everyone, also, has a back story. The top & bottom of it, tho, is the clubs starting from scratch. The only people guaranteed seats are season ticket holders, corporate and the seriously well off who can afford hospitality. Everyone else is equal now. I don't expect those that have enjoyed almost unopposed access to suddenly shrug their shoulders & think "fair doos, it's shit but I had a canny run" but they have. @TheGuv ended his post with a "if people were that desperate they should've got memberships last year" Like @Pata we just missed out too. I could've replied "if you're that desperate to go get a season ticket" but you can't. We can't, this is the only way. For my part I've been a supporter for 54 years ish. Been to more games when we were shit that otherwise. Had 2 spells of season ticket ownership packing it in 1st time due to divorce financing and the second time because it was more entertaining staying at home and squeezing my nuts with a pair of rusty pliers. There's no hierarchy of fandom in my head and, if you don't like newbies rocking up, things are going to get a whole lot worse for you. This is the future now. I hope, in 5 years time, when Sky are outside popvoxing supporters they're not all Irish, Cockneys and Asians like Old Trafford is but it's moneyball. We'll not be entering every ballot btw. Not by a long chalk. Good luck everyone going forward. Edited August 5, 2023 by Groundhog63 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrone Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 I've had a membership for years, and have been able to get tickets each time I've tried (other Wembley 😭) until now. The club has let down a decent percentage of long term fans here. I just hope there's a rethink on the process, or are we seeing a push to get "new" fans in at the expense of us legacy fans 😞 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 There’s definitely a push for new fans and growing the fan base but they’ll want to keep the original fans too. There’s no way they are intentionally trying to push the old fans away. Why would they want to do that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, patrone said: I've had a membership for years, and have been able to get tickets each time I've tried (other Wembley 😭) until now. The club has let down a decent percentage of long term fans here. I just hope there's a rethink on the process, or are we seeing a push to get "new" fans in at the expense of us legacy fans 😞 The roll out was a farce. Fine balance between club being “loyal” to fans who go all the time vs making the ground inaccessible to everyone else. Maybe they could have limited memberships? Other than that the ground is just too small now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Yeah. I think the ballot approach is an attempt to take away any bias in the system and make it random. The error has been in the absolutely horrific implementation and poor communication Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrone Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 I was merely questioning if that's their intention, but we've already lost two areas to corporate since last season, and seen quite an increase on match ticket prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrone Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) And to counter my own point The new owners have barely put a foot wrong since day one, and they already admitted they won't always get things right I'm still pissed off though 😞 Edited August 5, 2023 by patrone Poor spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimburst Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 We'll never be a self sustaining 'big club' without loads of new fans. If we want to be the new Arsenal or Man Utd (rather than a 'plastic' city or chelsea, bank rolled by oil states), then we have to accept we're going to have to have loads of fans and a big commercial revenue... Currently we're more chelsea than arsenal, innit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) I’m not sure how the new fans argument relates to membership or ballot really. We already have a massive family section which favours children over individual adult fans. I guess the ballot being random helps? But that might just be excluding one old fan to let in another. I don’t see how you can say that any of them are new fans. The main people this helps are obviously people who couldn’t log on at 10am, and the main people it punishes are those that had a routine of buying tickets for every match. You make your choice over whether you think that’s a good move. But I’m not sure either are new fans. It doesn’t really help occasional or travelling fans either, because you can never know which game you’re going to get tickets for. And you might end up buying a membership for nothing. The wider point is correct of course, we will attract more people the better we become. That’s fantastic as long as we have the seats to sell them. From a commercial point of view, I guess the most lucrative new fans might never attend a match in person. Edited August 5, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, bobbydazzla said: 100% agree that 10am scramble wasn’t fair on those who can’t be in front of a screen at the time tickets went on sale a workaround for them was to link to someone who could, but that’s by the by lobbing everyone into a massive unlimited pot and picking out winners at random is equally as unfair on those who have a history of being match going regulars there’s probably loads of people out there who couldn’t log on at 10am and also haven’t got lucky in the ballot. they’re getting fucked in both holes. there must be a solution that works that’s better than this current shitstorm they’ve created its 2023 for fucks sake and loads of events have a greater demand for tickets than supply tbh I am not sure the 10am scramble was that unfair. Pretty much everyone has a smart phone these days and it was just a case of logging in, waiting in a queue. So it wasn't that much effort and it just meant those who really wanted to go had the opportunity to purchase a ticket with a bit of effort. Ballots now just leaves it all to chance. Like has been mentioned people can be paying out £37 on potentially multiple memberships and not be successful. The whole new ticketing scheme needs to be looked at. I understand the club wants to generate money but not at the expense of fleecing fans at the worst possible time. Edited August 5, 2023 by duo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, duo said: tbh I am not sure the 10am scramble was that unfair. Pretty much every man and his dog has a smart phone these days and it was just a case of logging in, waiting in a queue. So it wasn't that much effort I don't necessarily have a horse in this race as I have managed to cling to my ST with my fingertips, but surely that's not that fair? Not everyone works a 9-5 day job, can just whip a phone out in the middle of their day to wait in a queue? If I was in that scenario, I'd have next to no chance even though I do work a day job such is the nature of my work But I understand some members may feel their loyalty through the last season shouldn't just be disregarded for a pick from a hat scenario. Really hard thing to roll out at the best of times, but the club seemed to have fumbled in their correspondence prior to this. Good luck everyone! Edited August 5, 2023 by NE27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrone Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 There's been no loyalty given to long term members, nothing. Leaving the membership open and unlimited, upping the costs, upping the match day tickets It's all shite 🤦 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: I’m not sure how the new fans argument relates to membership or ballot really. We already have a massive family section which favours children over individual adult fans. I guess the ballot being random helps? But that might just be excluding one old fan to let in another. I don’t see how you can say that any of them are new fans. The main people this helps are obviously people who couldn’t log on at 10am, and the main people it punishes are those that had a routine of buying tickets for every match. You make your choice over whether you think that’s a good move. But I’m not sure either are new fans. It doesn’t really help occasional or travelling fans either, because you can never know which game you’re going to get tickets for. And you might end up buying a membership for nothing. The wider point is correct of course, we will attract more people the better we become. That’s fantastic as long as we have the seats to sell them. From a commercial point of view, I guess the most lucrative new fans might never attend a match in person. The fact Silverstone said the other day they want to introduce the club to new fans, the introduction of international memberships is giving people abroad a chance to perhaps experience st James park and also the fact memberships haven’t been capped points to bringing in new support. Memberships are old fans and new Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) That’s the thing really. I do admit the queue was unfair, but then so is every in-demand ticket sale in world pretty much. It goes online, you have to be there at the right time to buy it. I guess with things like Wimbledon and Glasto there’s a ballot, but not every fortnight As you say, it just feels so bad to being able to go to almost every game to facing a completely unknown number of failures. And no difference between you and a tourist or away fan taking a punt. The ballot is fairer in absolute terms but taking away the ability for anyone to reliably attend games is quite a high price to pay. Hopefully it’s not as bad as I think and I’ll win in the next one. It’s hard to say how lucky you need to be at the moment. I’ll happily attend all the unfashionable matches and miss the Man City ones. It’s hard to say how many people were screwed by the queue or if we’ve also attracted thousands of fans who never even cared before. That’s also a hard one to swallow. If I knew all the people now applying were frozen out last season, that would be fine I suppose. Edited August 5, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, gdm said: The fact Silverstone said the other day they want to introduce the club to new fans, the introduction of international memberships is giving people abroad a chance to perhaps experience st James park and also the fact memberships haven’t been capped points to bringing in new support. Memberships are old fans and new I understand that’s the strategic aim, and fair enough. But I don’t think he means instead of the people who were already going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrone Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 They managed for the cup final, so why not now? ballot 1 previous members that attended 5 games Ballot 2 previous members that attended 3 games Etc etc Now we have as much chance of a ticket as an away fan who gambles 🤷♂️ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Groundhog63 said: Total human nature to view the world through one's own prism and be enraged when things you've become accustomed to change. I get that. Also understand the feeling of ownership of these things one's become used to. Everyone, also, has a back story. The top & bottom of it, tho, is the clubs starting from scratch. The only people guaranteed seats are season ticket holders, corporate and the seriously well off who can afford hospitality. Everyone else is equal now. I don't expect those that have enjoyed almost unopposed access to suddenly shrug their shoulders & think "fair doos, it's shit but I had a canny run" but they have. @TheGuv ended his post with a "if people were that desperate they should've got memberships last year" Like @Pata we just missed out too. I could've replied "if you're that desperate to go get a season ticket" but you can't. We can't, this is the only way. For my part I've been a supporter for 54 years ish. Been to more games when we were shit that otherwise. Had 2 spells of season ticket ownership packing it in 1st time due to divorce financing and the second time because it was more entertaining staying at home and squeezing my nuts with a pair of rusty pliers. There's no hierarchy of fandom in my head and, if you don't like newbies rocking up, things are going to get a whole lot worse for you. This is the future now. I hope, in 5 years time, when Sky are outside popvoxing supporters they're not all Irish, Cockneys and Asians like Old Trafford is but it's moneyball. We'll not be entering every ballot btw. Not by a long chalk. Good luck everyone going forward. What are your views on marriage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: I understand that’s the strategic aim, and fair enough. But I don’t think he means instead of the people who were already going. For not it’ll have to be until we get bigger capacity they want new eyes on us this season and going forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 Just now, gdm said: For not it’ll have to be until we get bigger capacity they want new eyes on us this season and going forward But the ballot is just random, it’s not a reliable way to benefit new fans, is it? If you’re travelling from Dubai you don’t want to wait until a month before the match and take a 20% gamble on getting a ticket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: But the ballot is just random, it’s not a reliable way to benefit new fans, is it? No but a new fan gets a membership and gives them a fair chance of being able to go Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: As you say, it just feels so bad to being able to go to almost every game to facing a completely unknown number of failures. And no difference between you and a tourist or away fan taking a punt. Wait a min haven’t you had memberships for arsenal and Fulham? Aye it’s a bit shit but bit cheeky to complain about it when you’ve been doing it at other clubs Tho I agree it’s pretty shit of away fans start getting their hands on them Edited August 5, 2023 by gdm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, NE27 said: I don't necessarily have a horse in this race as I have managed to cling to my ST with my fingertips, but surely that's not that fair? Not everyone works a 9-5 day job, can just whip a phone out in the middle of their day to wait in a queue? If I was in that scenario, I'd have next to no chance even though I do work a day job such is the nature of my work But I understand some members may feel their loyalty through the last season shouldn't just be disregarded for a pick from a hat scenario. Really hard thing to roll out at the best of times, but the club seemed to have fumbled in their correspondence prior to this. Good luck everyone! Impossible to have a system that is fair to all - but I personally think the previous system was fairer to most people. I know people who had a membership last year and managed to get tickets to most the games, and were also able to chose where they sat and to sit with friends. Now they're lucky if they just get a ticket. I also think the cup scheme for ST is a bit of a joke, no reason that had to change. Now we've to pay up front and have the hassle of getting rid of tickets for games we can't make. Just the whole ticketing scheme needs a re-think. Edited August 5, 2023 by duo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptimusSlime Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 To be fair if you are coming from Dubai you probably don’t think much of dropping £400 to sit in a corporate suite. FWIW I don’t think the prior queue method was fair. If you work in a hospital, factory etc etc at 10am very difficult to sit on your phone in a queue managing multiple browsers. If you work from home, are tech savvy etc you were massively favoured. Back in the day my day told me about going to the pub at night then after last orders getting in the queue for the box office for Wembley tickets for the 74 cup final and standing there all night so accessing tickets has constantly changed over the decades. Unfortunately while demand outstrips supply many are going to miss out. I can though see changes after this season of pricing for season ticket holders (particularly those on the final year of Ashley special deals). I could also see changes to the Family enclosure i.e. reduction of that area as kids age out of it. We could then see season tickets on sale and a waiting list in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, gdm said: Wait a min haven’t you had memberships for arsenal and Fulham? Aye it’s a bit shit but bit cheeky to complain about it when you’ve been doing it at other clubs Tho I agree it’s pretty shit of away fans start getting their hands on them I’ve had a few but they’ve all been a bit different to ours. Arsenal is tiered membership, so you’d never get in ahead of a regular fan. The first tier is free and PL games never reach that tier. I only went to the pre-season Emirates Cup. Fulham has a neutral section so anyone can buy tickets. They don’t have the demand to fill their ground so they regularly have thousands of tourists and away fans buying those tickets. Again, it’s not stopping any Fulham fan going. Even when I went to Spurs it was a resale site, so the ticket had been owned by a Spurs season ticket holder or member first. I don’t have a coherent argument here really, there’s no solution other than more seats. But it hurts deeply to have been going to every match one season and then potentially only one or two the next. With no prospect of ever getting back to regular attendance. It’s really sucked the excitement out of the PL season completely. Edited August 5, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, duo said: Impossible to have a system that is fair to all - but I personally think the previous system was fairer to most people. I know people who had a membership last year and managed to get tickets to most the games, and were also able to chose where they sat and to sit with friends. Now they're lucky if they just get a ticket. I also think the cup scheme for ST is a bit of a joke, no reason that had to change. Now we've to paid up front and have the hassle of getting rid of tickets for games we can't make. Just the whole ticketing scheme needs a re-think. I've had to buy a CL package up front for the fear I'd miss out on tickets if we were to progress, which obviously in the past for cup games etc I'd pick and choose what I could make. Fear of missing out is a very real prospect after Wembley last season, an almost alien concept at nufc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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