João Pedro

[Geordie Ahmed]

Not necessarily a priority position but I'd sooner chuck money at Baleba than Pedro

[r0cafella]

29 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I know they ended up worth crazy depth.  But Villa’s 4231 reduced the running on a lot of their players.  Maybe we move to a style more like that. That requires at least 1 genuine 10 if not 2. 

I thought we could change to a double pivot as well, but in doing so we ask too much of Sandro Bruno just can't about the pitch quickly enough so the gaps will be huge. 

 

Other option is back 3 but pushing both wide centre backs into midfield to help cover problem with that is the central defender has to be godly. 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, r0cafella said:

I thought we could change to a double pivot as well, but in doing so we ask too much of Sandro Bruno just can't about the pitch quickly enough so the gaps will be huge. 

 

Other option is back 3 but pushing both wide centre backs into midfield to help cover problem with that is the central defender has to be godly. 

Villa manage it with Tielemans playing every minute in the PL and CL damn near. If we keep more of the ball we need less running. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Villa manage it with Tielemans playing every minute in the PL and CL damn near. If we keep more of the ball we need less running. 

And they finished below us getting themselves into ffp hell in the process. 

 

Id also argue Tielmans is more mobile then Bruno. 

[Fenham Mag]

11 minutes ago, Rocker said:

Homophobe? 

 

Hates seagulls. 

[magorific]

7 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

Not necessarily a priority position but I'd sooner chuck money at Baleba than Pedro

Agreed. Fantastic talent. Progressive carries agogo.

[The College Dropout]

19 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

And they finished below us getting themselves into ffp hell in the process. 

 

Id also argue Tielmans is more mobile then Bruno. 

We got the same amount of points and Villa played 9 more games than us - the vast majority of those being in the CL and latter rounds of FA Cup.  
 

Im not sure what your point is.  Villa found a way to play that reduced the running requirement of their least athletic CM who ended up being their best performer in the season. My point is we may plan to adopt a slower style that allows us to compete on multiple fronts and to do so we’ll need a number 10. That shift to a slower style made it possible for Tielemans to extra shine. 
 

The learnings from our last CL campaign should be we need a bigger squad and a less physically intensive style. To succeed we need to address both.  

 

 

There’s various clips going viral of Tielemans being burnt for athleticism - one from our very own Willock - no such thing exists for Bruno.  I love Bruno but if he can’t play in a double pivot we should sell him.  I don’t think that’s true though. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:17 by The College Dropout

[KingArthur]

I really don't think the formation, especially if it is 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 really matters at all how much you do running. It is the instructions that you give to those players. Villa have played seriously high line and our midfield 5 is usually in a flat line. When the opponent manages to play past it, our 3 has to do a lot of running. And because we press high, we run a lot. A lot of duels and lot of interceptions means we have less long possessions and less slow attacking, but it also masks our lack of technical ability up front. These are choices. If we want to keep the ball longer, we need to partner Schär with another ball playing defender and replace Pope. 

[UncleBingo]

Decent player but for the sort of money they'd want, would rather go for Kudus.

[Checko]

14 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

I really don't think the formation, especially if it is 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 really matters at all how much you do running. It is the instructions that you give to those players. Villa have played seriously high line and our midfield 5 is usually in a flat line. When the opponent manages to play past it, our 3 has to do a lot of running. And because we press high, we run a lot. A lot of duels and lot of interceptions means we have less long possessions and less slow attacking, but it also masks our lack of technical ability up front. These are choices. If we want to keep the ball longer, we need to partner Schär with another ball playing defender and replace Pope. 

I think it's more about being able to control possession and save the constant running back and forth. At least it is for me. You can protect your legs by just getting on the ball and make the opposition chase you for a bit.

 

IMO we're very reliant on turnovers and quick counters and really struggle when we can't do that (eg from goal kicks). It also means when momentum goes against us in a game we can't take the sting out of things. (Eg Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham).

 

Obviously having Pope and Burn doesn't help, but even when not under much pressure we're still not very good at it & I personally think the 433 with just one DM coming deep doesn't work in play out from the back situations. It's really predictable, everyone's too far apart, Isak stays isolated which isn't really his game.

 

I think the 4231 gives more control around the DM/CB area which allows more secure build up and if we do need to boot it long, means there's actually someone near the striker to cchallenge for the second ball. Plus they have to commit another player forward if they want to press both DMs, leaving a bit more space if we want to go over the top.

 

[Checko]

Should also say, this 433 stuff is a bit of a particular bugbear of mine which means I'm probably overthinking it a bit.

[aussiemag]

He’s only on 50k a week. Providing the big 6 aren’t after him? He could double his wage by moving to us. 

[Kimbo]

I’ve always liked Pedro but the story seems to be “Brighton will sell if they’re offered silly money”. It doesn’t look like a great opportunity to me.

[Chiaia]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

And they finished below us getting themselves into ffp hell in the process. 

 

Id also argue Tielmans is more mobile then Bruno. 

A fridge freezer is more mobile than Bruno to be fair, bless him

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, Chiaia said:

A fridge freezer is more mobile than Bruno to be fair, bless him

Quote

 

Newcastle's Bruno Guimaraes covered the most ground this season, running 261 miles (St James' Park to Wembley is 271 miles).

He retains the award after racking up 263 miles in the competition last season.

 

 

Yep, 2 years of not being mobile, yet covering more distance than any other player in the league.

[Checko]

I'd say Bruno's unfastliness is a problem in a system where he has to be both our only DM and our main attacking playmaker. When he's already in the DM position it's not an issue.

 

If he's in a 2 and Tonali toddles up the field he's fine holding fort IMO.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:18 by Checko

[The College Dropout]

25 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

I really don't think the formation, especially if it is 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 really matters at all how much you do running. It is the instructions that you give to those players. Villa have played seriously high line and our midfield 5 is usually in a flat line. When the opponent manages to play past it, our 3 has to do a lot of running. And because we press high, we run a lot. A lot of duels and lot of interceptions means we have less long possessions and less slow attacking, but it also masks our lack of technical ability up front. These are choices. If we want to keep the ball longer, we need to partner Schär with another ball playing defender and replace Pope. 

What we are talking about is taking Joelinton out the side and replacing him with Joao Pedro. That means taking out a player capable of running up and down for 90 minutes, chasing opposition down and physically dominating them offensively and defensively. In his place you would have a more attack minded player, with greater technique, vision and eye for goal, more comfortable on the ball in tight spaces. 
 

For that to work - you can’t play with the same intense level of vertical football. Less reliant on Joelinton winning the ball high up on the press (and we score a lot of goals like this) and more reliant on build up play.  Less reliant on Joelinton tracking back runners with 2 players responsible for tracking runs at all times. 
 

Botman is great on the ball and we plan to bring in another ball playing defender. We also seem to want to sign a ball playing GK. 

 

If we want to continue to primarily play a flat 433 - this JP signing doesn’t make much sense. He could only lay the Isak role and that’s not his best position imo. If we want to change formation that uses 1 less CM - it makes a lot more sense. It also means that JP technically covers 2 positions for the cost of 1.  
 

He replaces a CM should we play with a double pivot.  And he can fill in for Isak if we want to play 433. So he’s the new Wilson and essentially a new CM all in one. 

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Yep, 2 years of not being mobile, yet covering more distance than any other player in the league.

Aye. He’s plenty mobile.  He’s just slow. He also plays a crazy amount of minutes in a high running side in a high running position. 

 

15 minutes ago, Checko said:

I think it's more about being able to control possession and save the constant running back and forth. At least it is for me. You can protect your legs by just getting on the ball and make the opposition chase you for a bit.

 

IMO we're very reliant on turnovers and quick counters and really struggle when we can't do that (eg from goal kicks). It also means when momentum goes against us in a game we can't take the sting out of things. (Eg Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham).

 

Obviously having Pope and Burn doesn't help, but even when not under much pressure we're still not very good at it & I personally think the 433 with just one DM coming deep doesn't work in play out from the back situations. It's really predictable, everyone's too far apart, Isak stays isolated which isn't really his game.

 

I think the 4231 gives more control around the DM/CB area which allows more secure build up and if we do need to boot it long, means there's actually someone near the striker to cchallenge for the second ball. Plus they have to commit another player forward if they want to press both DMs, leaving a bit more space if we want to go over the top.

 

JP as a 10 also gives us another player capable of breaking a low block with a bit of skill, pass or whatever. Our best players between a defensive ans midfield line are Isak who should be on the last line of defence which he usually is and Bruno who is our primary playmaker that is wlso a combative CM. Sandro, Gordon, Barnes, Joelinton etc. all try but that’s not their game.  I think that’s JPs game. Half turn between the lines ready to commit a defender. 
 

And as you say, if you have him, Tonali and Bruno in midfield. You’ll do less running and have the ball a lot more. Sometimes we play low percentage ballls and I think it’s to move up the pitch and try to engage a turnover in the opposition area. That’s a physically intensive way of playing. With  JP we should play some more ball.  
 

Been discussing this idea with @Lotus   It’s the only way buying a 10 makes sense to me. That would make JP worth £60m to us covering two positions.  Not the one as backup to Isak.  
 

I guess that’s largely how Guardiola used that Argentine striker. He often played him as a 10 with Haaland. That was his primary position I believe. But he would also play him at 9 when Haaland was injured and on more rare occasions wide or as an 8. 

[relámpago blanco]

I just can't see this happening. Does he have a release clause for CL clubs or something. Otherwise Brighton will want 60+ million

[The College Dropout]

Julian Alvarez last season at City. Primarily playing with Haaland but also playing in Haaland’s place  when needed.  If we plan to primarily play JP as a 10 and then 9 or wide due to injury he’s worth £60m to us. As a backup 9 or RW? Nope not a good fit. 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:35 by The College Dropout

[TRC]

Joao Pedro is an elite presser and a total cunt too, he'd be perfect.

[Chiaia]

21 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Yep, 2 years of not being mobile, yet covering more distance than any other player in the league.

Workhorse can’t knock him but aye as clearly as mobile as a fridge running in slow motion bless him 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, TRC said:

Joao Pedro is an elite presser and a total cunt too, he'd be perfect.

In some ways his profile is perfect for us to evolve our style. 
 

Otherwise we need a Tonali/Joelinton regen like a Ederson which gives us the same problems against a low block.  
 

It also means we don’t necessarily need a playmaker at RW. 

 

The more I think about it the more I like it.  

[wyn davies]

Brighton may want £100m,  plus they may have a chance of Europe which cause issues.

 

Go elsewhere I say, nevermind all this over the odds crap for PL proven players.

[SteV]

30 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

I’ve always liked Pedro but the story seems to be “Brighton will sell if they’re offered silly money”. It doesn’t look like a great opportunity to me.

That might be the story, and if it is, I probably agree with you. But if the story is the manager wants rid cos his behaviour and general demeanour went downhill last season, that puts a different slant on it.