Group B: England, Iran, United States, Wales (England and USA qualify)

[Deuce]

1 hour ago, gazza ladra said:

US are a striker away from being quite good.

We should return largely the same core of players in 4 years. Hopefully one of Ferreira/Pepi/Sargent/Pefok, etc. step up in that time.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Given their lack of a proper striker, they are going to struggle with goals. They had something like 19 touches in the 18 yard box against Wales, and failed to produce much of anything from it.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Just now, Tomato Deuce said:

We should return largely the same core of players in 4 years. Hopefully one of Ferreira/Pepi/Sargent/Pefok, etc. step up in that time.

Yep. This team is young and has a lot of time to grow. Really talented, young midfield with a high ceiling.

 

I hope to see someone other than Berholter in four years though. Last game was calling for Reyna. He is rigid as fuck as well.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Will people finally start listening to me when it comes to Southgate being a defensive minded no backup subs or gameplans piece of shit manager? Or do we have to wait until you guys get knocked out in the quarters?

I think the QF is probably the limit (and England’s natural par) for any manager - I just want to enjoy watching it.  Play on the front foot and lose - just don’t be boring.

 

England always lose to the first good side they play - that’s unlikely to change any time soon.  I’d like to be entertained while that happens  

[gbandit]

I thought you were from the USA Vinny, is that not the case?

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

Will people finally start listening to me when it comes to Southgate being a defensive minded no backup subs or gameplans piece of shit manager? Or do we have to wait until you guys get knocked out in the quarters?

 

It's not so much his lack of game plans as it is his limited tactical ability. For example, his game plan in the Euro 2020 was very good, but when Mancini altered Italy's formation he had no answer.

[toon25]

Southgate is barely mid-table champo manager. Whether he's been able to instil a "good vibe" in the dressing room and bring a 'team' together because he's a bloke that won't rock the boat oughtn't to detract from the fact he's no fucking idea what to do to beat another side.

 

He's Bruce in a waistcoat and a bent knee to the FA.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Just now, gbandit said:

I thought you were from the USA Vinny, is that not the case?

Yeah. I am.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Vinny Green Balls

[Deuce]

38 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Tyler Adams was probably man of the match. He looks a good pick up for Leeds.

 

 

 

Drop him in NUFC’s midfield to free up Bruno and we’re laughing our way into the top 4

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Tomato Deuce

[LiquidAK]

It’s just such a lazy, easy narrative to take. Say he’s shit and we do go out early and you get to say “told you!”. Or we do better and it’s either “easy draw” or everyone else is so swept up in celebrating that you don’t get called out on your bad take. It’s win-win to slag Southgate off, regardless of what actually plays out over the month 

[huss9]

2 minutes ago, toon25 said:

Southgate is barely mid-table champo manager. Whether he's been able to instil a "good vibe" in the dressing room and bring a 'team' together because he's a bloke that won't rock the boat oughtn't to detract from the fact he's no fucking idea what to do to beat another side.

 

He's Bruce in a waistcoat and a bent knee to the FA.

absolutely not.

Bruce is an abomination of a human being. at least southgate is a decent bloke who's players seem to look up to.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by huss9

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I trust you’re not suggesting that 2021 Germany is the same as 1990/96 Germany  

 

And England didn’t beat Croatia, from memory

 

I'm old enough to know that Germany's quality has almost always counted for very little once they get to international tournaments. The 1996 Germany team was nothing special either.

 

Again though, there's literally nothing Southgate can ever do that's good enough. No team has any god given right to be winning tournaments with the other teams that are knocking about, but you'd think Southgate was holding back 1970 Brazil the way people go on. 

 

There's some serious, serious amnesia with pre-Southgate England as well.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Hodgson

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, toon25 said:

Southgate is barely mid-table champo manager. Whether he's been able to instil a "good vibe" in the dressing room and bring a 'team' together because he's a bloke that won't rock the boat oughtn't to detract from the fact he's no fucking idea what to do to beat another side.

 

He's Bruce in a waistcoat and a bent knee to the FA.

Yep.  He’s a PFM of a middle-class bent.
 

No-one on here would be pleased in any way shape or form if he replaced Howe in the unlikely scenario that Howe buggers off to Barcelona or something.  No-one.

 

His nose was put out by those daft goals conceded vs Iran and he was after a solid clean sheet whilst not expending too much energy, knowing that only a hammering off the Welsh sees England miss the last 16

[huss9]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 

I'm old enough to know that Germany's quality has almost always counted for very little once they get to international tournaments. The 1996 Germany team was nothing special either.

 

Again though, there's literally nothing Southgate can ever do that's good enough. No team has any god given right to be winning tournaments with the other teams that are knocking about, but you'd think Southgate was holding back 1970 Brazil the way people go on. 

 

There's some serious, serious amnesia with pre-Southgate England as well.

its not about having that god-given right.

but when you're given the chance, to totally bottle it is unforgiveable.

at least give it a go.

i was never angry at hoddle, venables, SBR when we lost on pels each time as we really gave it a go n each game.

we practically gave up against croatia and italy under southgate.

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep.  He’s a PFM of a middle-class bent.
 

No-one on here would be pleased in any way shape or form if he replaced Howe in the unlikely scenario that Howe buggers off to Barcelona or something.  No-one.

 

His nose was put out by those daft goals conceded vs Iran and he was after a solid clean sheet whilst not expending too much energy, knowing that only a hammering off the Welsh sees England miss the last 16

 

Correct, but also rather irrelevant.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I'm old enough to know that Germany's quality has almost always counted for very little once they get to international tournaments. The 1996 Germany team was nothing special either.

 

Again though, there's literally nothing Southgate can ever do that's good enough. No team has any god given right to be winning tournaments with the other teams that are knocking about, but you'd think Southgate was holding back 1970 Brazil the way people go on. 

 

There's some serious, serious amnesia with pre-Southgate England as well.

No amnesia on my part.  I had Iceland to beat England in 2016 in the predictor in the office and was looked at like I was mad.

 

I don’t give a shite about the results, I just want to see some attacking football. Hodgson’s England were awful of course - but fuck me that’s a low bar.  
 

Germany had some real quality in 1996 - Sammer, Moller and an ageing Klinsmann were comfortably better than owt in their 2021 side.  
 

Not sure how Europe’s most successful footballing nation can be described as having quality that ‘counts for nothing’ in international tournaments

[McDog]

USA not terrible all time against England in the WC.

[TheBrownBottle]

10 minutes ago, huss9 said:

its not about having that god-given right.

but when you're given the chance, to totally bottle it is unforgiveable.

at least give it a go.

i was never angry at hoddle, venables, SBR when we lost on pels each time as we really gave it a go n each game.

we practically gave up against croatia and italy under southgate.

Yep, that’s my issue too.  Football with the handbrake on.  It has never been well-liked at SJP - and god knows we’ve won fuck all since the ‘60s either, just like England.  Not sure why when watching England - who I give far less of a damn about - that type of football is meant to be ok.

 

He’s got Maddison, Foden and Grealish not starting.  Whatever anyone thinks of them - personally I think they’re good footballers but not world class ones - they’d at least be entertaining to watch. Instead it’s Mason fucking Mount, an out of form Sterling and Kane who’s Hidegkuti impression as a deep lying no 9 doesn’t work without the class of Son alongside him

 

edit: when people make manager comparisons, the manager who Southgate reminds me of is Taylor.  Nice bloke, proper FA man, teams play shite football, will happily drop Chris Waddle for Geoff Thomas.  Southgate wouldn’t have got out of the ‘94 qfy group either, against the Dutch, and solid Norway and Poland teams. 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by TheBrownBottle

[toon25]

Whilst Woy's England were shite, you were at the very least looking at a guy that had earned the right to manage the national team.

 

This guy greased himself up the FA's pole. That's undeniable.

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, huss9 said:

its not about having that god-given right.

but when you're given the chance, to totally bottle it is unforgiveable.

at least give it a go.

i was never angry at hoddle, venables, SBR when we lost on pels each time as we really gave it a go n each game.

we practically gave up against croatia and italy under southgate.

 

You can just as easily say the 1990 and 1996 teams bottled it by that measure. Rose-tinted glasses cover some obvious flaws like. That 96 team, along with many England teams since, had far better players than this one but had a very brief peak.

 

Where people get this idea that Southgate's holding them back from is baffling. Kane is the only truly World Class player England have. We bemoan how shit our defence is, then bemoan how Southgate sets up to mitigate for that. Going with this method we've got to a semi and a final, often playing very good football that Southgate's never really credited for.

 

Even then, the ends justify the means and like it or not, Southgate's ends beat SBR, Venables and Hoddle. That's the magic of saying they would have done better than Southgate, despite the fact they never did, it's hypothetical so it can never be wrong.

[The Prophet]

I must have missed all of these successful, all-action international sides. Particularly ones with massive limitations at centre back and now less so, centre midfield.

 

I understand some of the criticism of Southgate, but most of it lacks any kind nuisance and seeks to underplay what he's achieved as England manager.

[Wullie]

18 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I don’t give a shite about the results, I just want to see some attacking football.

 

Don't bother with international football at all would be my advice.

[huss9]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You can just as easily say bottled ithe 1990 and 1996 teamst by that measure. Rose-tinted glasses cover some obvious flaws like. That 96 team, along with many England teams since, had far better players than this one but had a very brief peak.

 

Where people get this idea that Southgate's holding them back from is baffling. Kane is the only truly World Class player England have. We bemoan how shit our defence is, then bemoan how Southgate sets up to mitigate for that. Going with this method we've got to a semi and a final, often playing very good football that Southgate's never really credited for.

 

Even then, the ends justify the means and like it or not, Southgate's ends beat SBR, Venables and Hoddle. That's the magic of saying they would have done better than Southgate, despite the fact they never did, it's hypothetical so it can never be wrong.

they may have bottled the pels, but not during the games themselves.

they really went for it and played well.

even when we whimpered out against spain in 82 we actually gambled and tried to win the game.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Wullie said:

 

Don't bother with international football at all would be my advice.

Haha aye, it’s pretty solid advice in fairness

 

8 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You can just as easily say the 1990 and 1996 teams bottled it by that measure. Rose-tinted glasses cover some obvious flaws like. That 96 team, along with many England teams since, had far better players than this one but had a very brief peak.

 

Where people get this idea that Southgate's holding them back from is baffling. Kane is the only truly World Class player England have. We bemoan how shit our defence is, then bemoan how Southgate sets up to mitigate for that. Going with this method we've got to a semi and a final, often playing very good football that Southgate's never really credited for.

 

Even then, the ends justify the means and like it or not, Southgate's ends beat SBR, Venables and Hoddle. That's the magic of saying they would have done better than Southgate, despite the fact they never did, it's hypothetical so it can never be wrong.

Yes, that’s opinions for you.  Was NUFC’s side of 2002-03 better than the 1995-96 side?  I think it was, but I can’t prove it - and plenty would think otherwise, and could point to them finishing 2nd instead of 3rd