Anthony Gordon

[Conjo]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

He's been here a few months and has hardly played as the team is currently flying

 

This is all incredibly strange man.

 

As I said, unless I've tricked myself in the way I worded it in the post you quoted, he needs to be given time to settle into a new club with new team mates, new coaches, new system, new culture etc etc. 

 

I don't think his age is something we should use to argue that he was never supposed to do better from the start though. 22 is not young in world of football, and in terms of experience he has played a lot at this level for someone his age. This is his fourth season of playing PL football.

[Optimistic Nut]

Don't think his decision making was bad either, just needed better finishing. He was 6 inches away from having 2 goals. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

24 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

As I said, unless I've tricked myself in the way I worded it in the post you quoted, he needs to be given time to settle into a new club with new team mates, new coaches, new system, new culture etc etc. 

 

I don't think his age is something we should use to argue that he was never supposed to do better from the start though. 22 is not young in world of football, and in terms of experience he has played a lot at this level for someone his age. This is his fourth season of playing PL football.

 

Admittedly I've not followed the discussion from the start so might have missed something but Grealish was 26 when he joined City, he was underwhelming in his first season and it's only now that he's started to really play well and at the level he was expected to 

 

In comparison 21 is nothing and Gordon's experience has mostly been battling relegation so not a positive experience 

[Conjo]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

There's some players like Billingham who are pretty much the full package from 17, but there's plenty players who don't really hit their stride until their early to mid 20s.

 

I mean Callum Wilson and Keiran Trippier weren't setting the world alight at 22. Harrison Ashby hasn't even played any football and he's 21.

 

Off the top of my head so this might not be fully accurate, but for rest of the England squad I think you have plenty examples of players fulfilling their potential beyond their early 20s; Harry Kane, James Maddison, Ivan Toney, Jamie Vardy, Tammy Abraham, Jarrod Bowen, Kalvin Phillips, Jack Grealish.

 

Even the greatest centre mid ever, Declan Rice, has improved immeasurably over the past couple of years (he's now 24) with talk of him still to find a new gear with his contributions in the final 3rd.

 

Players start out at different levels, but at that age Wilson and Trippier sure made the best out of where they were at.

Wilson was Coventrys top scorer and player of the season when he was 21/22, which earned him a transfer to B'mouth where he scored 2 goals in his debut and ended up their top scorer. He got promotion with B'mouth in his first season when he was 22/23 and scored a hattrick in his third PL game. 

Trippier at 22 had played three full seasons in the Championship, then got promoted with Burnley and did well in his first season in the PL which earned him a move to Tottenham at 24, but didn't get much playing time first two seasons because of Kyle Walker.

 

Kane had his breakthrough season at Spurs at 21 when he scored 21 goals in 34 matches.

Maddison joined Leicester at 21 after scoring 14 goals in 44 games for Norwich in the Championship. He was an instant hit at Leicester.

Abraham earned a spot in the Chelsea side at 21 scoring 15 goals in 34 matches after a fantastic season on loan at Villa.

Bowen got a move to West Ham January 2020 after turning 23 on 20th of December 2019 following 2.5 good seasons in a poor (Steve Bruce led) Hull side. He's actually a bit (hopefully) similar to Gordon in that he didn't light up the world the season he joined West Ham as far as I can remember (and stats indicate so too), but the following first full season he did well and has been a regular starter at West Ham since the day he joined them. Hopefully something Gordon replicates.

Phillips had his break through season for Leeds at 21 in 2016 and was a regular starter for them from then until his move to Man City.

Grealish at 21 had two seasons of PL football behind him and was regarded as one of the best talents in England. The following season he did enough at Villa to have Spurs come in for him with a bid that Villa rejected.

Toney had a difficult start because he was unfortunate enough to join us.  He exceeded expectations at every level from League 1 to championship to now PL after leaving us. I assume he had to go to a League 1 club as that was the level he had been loaned out to and done ok while under contract at Newcastle.

 

The only outliers I see is Vardy and Toney (who had to overcome the odds of being a young player at Newcastle).

 

 

[dcmk]

I like him, had a mixed game yesterday and can understand why he was pulled at half time as it wasn't really happening for him yesterday.

 

Think we will see the best of him next season, he is tall, two really good feet and electric pace.  What worries me the most is his attitude.

[Optimistic Nut]

It could easily have been Murphy that went off, must have been a 50-50 decision, he was awful. 

[Hanshithispantz]

13 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Players start out at different levels, but at that age Wilson and Trippier sure made the best out of where they were at.

Wilson was Coventrys top scorer and player of the season when he was 21/22, which earned him a transfer to B'mouth where he scored 2 goals in his debut and ended up their top scorer. He got promotion with B'mouth in his first season when he was 22/23 and scored a hattrick in his third PL game. 

Trippier at 22 had played three full seasons in the Championship, then got promoted with Burnley and did well in his first season in the PL which earned him a move to Tottenham at 24, but didn't get much playing time first two seasons because of Kyle Walker.

 

Kane had his breakthrough season at Spurs at 21 when he scored 21 goals in 34 matches.

Maddison joined Leicester at 21 after scoring 14 goals in 44 games for Norwich in the Championship. He was an instant hit at Leicester.

Abraham earned a spot in the Chelsea side at 21 scoring 15 goals in 34 matches after a fantastic season on loan at Villa.

Bowen got a move to West Ham January 2020 after turning 23 on 20th of December 2019 following 2.5 good seasons in a poor (Steve Bruce led) Hull side. He's actually a bit (hopefully) similar to Gordon in that he didn't light up the world the season he joined West Ham as far as I can remember (and stats indicate so too), but the following first full season he did well and has been a regular starter at West Ham since the day he joined them. Hopefully something Gordon replicates.

Phillips had his break through season for Leeds at 21 in 2016 and was a regular starter for them from then until his move to Man City.

Grealish at 21 had two seasons of PL football behind him and was regarded as one of the best talents in England. The following season he did enough at Villa to have Spurs come in for him with a bid that Villa rejected.

Toney had a difficult start because he was unfortunate enough to join us.  He exceeded expectations at every level from League 1 to championship to now PL after leaving us. I assume he had to go to a League 1 club as that was the level he had been loaned out to and done ok while under contract at Newcastle.

 

The only outliers I see is Vardy and Toney (who had to overcome the odds of being a young player at Newcastle).

 

 

How do many of them differ to Gordon who had a breakout season at Everton and is now hopefully in the process of moving to the next level with us?

 

The likes of Bowen and Maddison are clearly at a completely different level now.

[Menace]

I have no doubt he will become a 15/20 G/A winger in the next 18 months. We will look back and see it as good business, but of course our fan base expects him to hit the ground running from the first touch of the ball. Surprised Howe's tenure has not showed people that patience is required for some players.

[Ed Vinegar]

20 minutes ago, Menace said:

I have no doubt he will become a 15/20 G/A winger in the next 18 months. We will look back and see it as good business, but of course our fan base expects him to hit the ground running from the first touch of the ball. Surprised Howe's tenure has not showed people that patience is required for some players.

I think some of the impatience is due to the price of the deal and the fact he was one of the only players we brought in at a time people were worried about depth. He hasn't hit the ground at full speed but we're in a good place so that's not a problem - gives us the luxury of letting him develop into our style of play. Watching yesterday he's got the ingredients, just needs to put them all together. I think he'll be a good player for us.

[Jack27]

Didn’t realise Craig Hope hung him out to dry. Not very nice of him

[OverThere]

Right now he seems more suited to come on for the last 20 minutes or so. I think it will take him a year or so to build up into being a starter, and time is something we can afford. 

[Menace]

Craig Hope has turned into a colossal bellend since Howe's upform. I won't forget his article about "Isak struggling to adapt". He'd just been out for 4 months.

[Optimistic Nut]

Hope served his purpose. He was what we needed when Bruce was manager, Ashley was owner. Unless he was going at the regime which would be fair enough, I don't see where there's any cause for negative articles at the moment. Most of it not even newsworthy. 

[Big River]

it’s because he’s working in a dying industry and does anything he can to scramble for clicks. as if a grown man vlogging wasn’t bad enough. desperate.

 

I don’t even mind him fwiw, it is what it is.

[Conjo]

44 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

How do many of them differ to Gordon who had a breakout season at Everton and is now hopefully in the process of moving to the next level with us?

 

The likes of Bowen and Maddison are clearly at a completely different level now.

 

Most of them were younger than Gordon is now is the only point I'm making. I'm not saying he won't turn into a good player for us, just that I think using his age as an excuse for him not hitting the ground running isn't a very good one.

[Ace]

1 hour ago, Conjo said:

 

Players start out at different levels, but at that age Wilson and Trippier sure made the best out of where they were at.

Wilson was Coventrys top scorer and player of the season when he was 21/22, which earned him a transfer to B'mouth where he scored 2 goals in his debut and ended up their top scorer. He got promotion with B'mouth in his first season when he was 22/23 and scored a hattrick in his third PL game. 

Trippier at 22 had played three full seasons in the Championship, then got promoted with Burnley and did well in his first season in the PL which earned him a move to Tottenham at 24, but didn't get much playing time first two seasons because of Kyle Walker.

 

Kane had his breakthrough season at Spurs at 21 when he scored 21 goals in 34 matches.

Maddison joined Leicester at 21 after scoring 14 goals in 44 games for Norwich in the Championship. He was an instant hit at Leicester.

Abraham earned a spot in the Chelsea side at 21 scoring 15 goals in 34 matches after a fantastic season on loan at Villa.

Bowen got a move to West Ham January 2020 after turning 23 on 20th of December 2019 following 2.5 good seasons in a poor (Steve Bruce led) Hull side. He's actually a bit (hopefully) similar to Gordon in that he didn't light up the world the season he joined West Ham as far as I can remember (and stats indicate so too), but the following first full season he did well and has been a regular starter at West Ham since the day he joined them. Hopefully something Gordon replicates.

Phillips had his break through season for Leeds at 21 in 2016 and was a regular starter for them from then until his move to Man City.

Grealish at 21 had two seasons of PL football behind him and was regarded as one of the best talents in England. The following season he did enough at Villa to have Spurs come in for him with a bid that Villa rejected.

Toney had a difficult start because he was unfortunate enough to join us.  He exceeded expectations at every level from League 1 to championship to now PL after leaving us. I assume he had to go to a League 1 club as that was the level he had been loaned out to and done ok while under contract at Newcastle.

 

The only outliers I see is Vardy and Toney (who had to overcome the odds of being a young player at Newcastle).

 

 

Outside of Kane who we can all agree is a bit special. The rest of those players mentioned were playing in the lower leagues. 
 

If Gordon was in the championship he’d look like a superstar. 

[KaKa]

16 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Most of them were younger than Gordon is now is the only point I'm making. I'm not saying he won't turn into a good player for us, just that I think using his age as an excuse for him not hitting the ground running isn't a very good one.

 

He had his breakthrough season at Everton last season, his first season getting significant games at this level. He was 20 years old at the start of that season and by the end of it he was 21. He joined us at 21 years old and has only turned 22 February of this year.

 

He is young, and not just that, he is also quite inexperienced on the whole. Plus he is coming from a team that wasn't very good and so there is room for growth with better coaching and direction.

 

The interest in him, which wasn't just from us, was down to the physical attributes he showed last season and his work rate, commitment and desire on the pitch. Any club signing him was not doing so because he was a complete product, but because of what they envisioned moulding him into.

 

I read an article recently about Eddie Howe that mentioned one of the first thing he looks for regarding signings, is players with the right physical attributes and intensity to play his pressing and high tempo system, and so that no doubt contributed significantly to signing him.

 

From day one Howe spoke highly of Joelinton and Almiron, two players that are not always perfect technically, but he highlighted their physical abilities and intensity, and it's no surprise they've ended up doing very well for him. He no doubt feels like he can shape these sorts of players to work in his setup, but one thing he needs from the outset is high energy and intensity, because that cannot be manufactured for the most part.

[hakka]

After seeing Almiron, Joelinton, Longstaff, Kraft and Murphy all have upturns in the performances I have faith Gordon will improve considerably under Howe. Not all moves for young players pay off so soon.

[Hanshithispantz]

38 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Most of them were younger than Gordon is now is the only point I'm making. I'm not saying he won't turn into a good player for us, just that I think using his age as an excuse for him not hitting the ground running isn't a very good one.

I don't think his age needs to be used as an excuse, he's rarely featured as Howe won't just throw any player into his side. People seem to be taking it as him flopping for some reason.

 

Him being 22 just means he's around an age where many players start to see a large increase in ability at Premiership level 

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, arnonel said:

Howe said our best moments came from him. Decision to replace him was purely tactical. 

 

Yeah, I mean once we had to chase the game and introduce Callum, it was always going to be him that had to come off.

 

Murphy has been scoring recently, Isak has been scoring and creating, Joelinton has been scoring, Willock has been creating chances ... I mean of course he was going to be the one to bring off.

 

It just had to be done in this instance.

[KaKa]

I think a lot of people that really like the Man City style of play and the technical players they tend to feature, are probably not going to like a number of signings Howe ends up making, because that's not the type of football he plays.

 

We're going to end up looking more like a mix of Klopp's Liverpool and Mourinho's first Chelsea team. A big powerful side that plays an aggressive and high tempo style.

[magvicar]

My two penneth.

 

I was impressed with Gordon in the first half. I thought he was unlucky not to put away one of his chances but you have to remember he's busting a gut to impress not only the manager and coaches but also the full stadium.

Basically pressure pot football at the business end of the park.

 

As Howe said, it was a change he could see we needed and that change was to bring on Wilson and play Isak into a position Gordon was initially on.

Gordon was just a victim of that change, not a victim of playing badly.

 

To fight at the top and too keep players on their toes you need to alternate players into positions that can effect a game.

One thing about Howe is, we have to trust him because the league table does not lie.

The players trust him because they see it all first hand from getting into training to going home and then match days.

 

Howe sees a lot of what we do not.

We get to see the picture Howe paints with every game and he's looking like a very decent artist indeed. I'm sure Gordon will become part of that overall picture in the coming years if his mind stays focused. 

 

His ability is there to see but Rome wasn't built in a day and especially from a young prospect who's had to battle the pressures of avoiding relegation for his own club, to now battle against the pressures of a meteoric rise into the world of football at the real business end of the footballing spectrum.

 

Backing from all angles is what he needs so he can make the steps up and build his confidence and his overall match fitness and stamina to cater for the Howe way. The rest will naturally follow.

 

 

This game isn't about what Gordon did wrong, it was about a tactical change, only. It worked.

 

Eddie is the King. Long live Eddie. 

[Weezertron]

Personally I would prefer our 'purple' signings, around 40m like Bruno and Sven, to be somewhat ready-made. Especially this early into new ownership. 

 

I'm not sure it was the right time to sign him, but it is what it is. Hopefully the pre-season does him well. 

[Ste]

Never forget Hopes exclusive regarding Ryan Fraser being sent to train at the Academy, right before our first cup final in many years. 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, Weezertron said:

Personally I would prefer our 'purple' signings, around 40m like Bruno and Sven, to be somewhat ready-made. Especially this early into new ownership. 

 

I'm not sure it was the right time to sign him, but it is what it is. Hopefully the pre-season does him well. 

 

I think that price range is likely going to apply to a lot of our signings, both first teamers and squad players.

 

That £30 million to £40 million is likely going to get us more ready made first teamers that are coming from other leagues and so don't have the higher values Prem proven players tend to.

 

That price is also what you can expect to pay for some younger high potential players that would likely make up the squad, while being good enough to come into the team when needed, challenge for a first team place and eventually grow into a first team regular - I think the likes of Joao Pedro, Ekitike, Nico Williams (The Bilbao one) and Gabri Veiga are all some names we have been linked with that fit into that category, and were also in that price range.