r0cafella Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 1 minute ago, Nucasol said: U.K. fans despise it but a lot of the Twitter plastics associated with these clubs want it. Yeah the righteous fury against us and City for having owners who are richer than the owners of the other clubs is all the reasoning needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 The ESL suits the rest of Europe more than it suits English clubs. The PL is the big attraction, part of the reason none of the cartel clubs would want to give up on it. It will fail for the same reasons it did last time, there isn't any need for it. The Champions League in it's current format is as much ESL as you would ever need, there's certainly no fan demand for a different format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 1 minute ago, TRon said: The ESL suits the rest of Europe more than it suits English clubs. The PL is the big attraction, part of the reason none of the cartel clubs would want to give up on it. It will fail for the same reasons it did last time, there isn't any need for it. The Champions League in it's current format is as much ESL as you would ever need, there's certainly no fan demand for a different format. Tron, the big club wants a super league because it guarantees revenue regardless of sporting performance, all these clubs want as much as money as possible and that money to be guaranteed. If they suck for awhile, do what they want to be paid. That's what drives all of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 21 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Tron, the big club wants a super league because it guarantees revenue regardless of sporting performance, all these clubs want as much as money as possible and that money to be guaranteed. If they suck for awhile, do what they want to be paid. That's what drives all of this. It’s why we have a PL not a Division One anymore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: It’s why we have a PL not a Division One anymore But the top clubs in the English league were always the big pull. How do you translate that to a ESL unless you are still part of the PL as well? If the cartel clubs were to break away and the EPL barred them, it would take away a lot of their appeal in this country. Would they put a large global tv audience as a bigger priority over their national appeal which translates to actual in-stadium experience? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 8 minutes ago, TRon said: But the top clubs in the English league were always the big pull. How do you translate that to a ESL unless you are still part of the PL as well? If the cartel clubs were to break away and the EPL barred them, it would take away a lot of their appeal in this country. Would they put a large global tv audience as a bigger priority over their national appeal which translates to actual in-stadium experience? I agree mate, just saying that short term greed was behind the PL breakaway, it is the same motivations again for a ESL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 They could basically turn the Premier League into the Super League by allowing more investment. It's by far and away the most popular league in the world. Had the likes of Forest, Villa and our owners been allowed to be aggressive with investment we'd have all built much better squads by now. At the same time, the established top teams would have had to spend more to stay ahead of the pack and improved their squads too. A talent like Olise leaving the league isn't a good thing for the brand and wouldn't have happened if teams at the top could be more aggressive in the transfer market. I think part of it is ultimately a pride thing. It's more palatable for the likes of Liverpool to imagine being a midtable club in a league full of clubs like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich than it is to have clubs like Newcastle or Villa push on and possibly surpass them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 59 minutes ago, Shak said: They could basically turn the Premier League into the Super League by allowing more investment. It's by far and away the most popular league in the world. Had the likes of Forest, Villa and our owners been allowed to be aggressive with investment we'd have all built much better squads by now. At the same time, the established top teams would have had to spend more to stay ahead of the pack and improved their squads too. A talent like Olise leaving the league isn't a good thing for the brand and wouldn't have happened if teams at the top could be more aggressive in the transfer market. I think part of it is ultimately a pride thing. It's more palatable for the likes of Liverpool to imagine being a midtable club in a league full of clubs like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich than it is to have clubs like Newcastle or Villa push on and possibly surpass them. You'd end up needing to reshape the full pyramid though, if you increase the ability to spend in the PL then you're pretty much closing the door to clubs becoming established after promotion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 24 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: You'd end up needing to reshape the full pyramid though, if you increase the ability to spend in the PL then you're pretty much closing the door to clubs becoming established after promotion. It’s the same system now. The untouchables. 6-8 teams with current ownership. The unlikelies. The bulk of the rest. the yo-yo’s. happy to be here. When was the last newly promoted club to establish themselves in the PL without parachute payments from previously being in the PL? Forest who got a points deduction. And Brentford who are over powered in the transfer market via data analytics. The happy to be there’s want to become yo-yo sides. Yo-yo’s want to become unlikelies like Palace. It’s pretty rare for the unlikelies to invest enough and grow to become untouchable without a change in ownership. The existing gap is so big. That’s the primary reason Everton haven’t been relegated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KetsbaiaIsBald Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 37 minutes ago, LFEE said: well that’s a little embarrassing for the premier league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shak said: They could basically turn the Premier League into the Super League by allowing more investment. It's by far and away the most popular league in the world. Had the likes of Forest, Villa and our owners been allowed to be aggressive with investment we'd have all built much better squads by now. At the same time, the established top teams would have had to spend more to stay ahead of the pack and improved their squads too. A talent like Olise leaving the league isn't a good thing for the brand and wouldn't have happened if teams at the top could be more aggressive in the transfer market. I think part of it is ultimately a pride thing. It's more palatable for the likes of Liverpool to imagine being a midtable club in a league full of clubs like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich than it is to have clubs like Newcastle or Villa push on and possibly surpass them. They want the glamour ties against Europe's elite though, they just don't want to have to earn said games they want them by divine right. Edited October 15 by r0cafella Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 13 minutes ago, r0cafella said: They want the glamour ties against Europe's elite though, they just don't want to have to earn said games they want them by divine right. Catering to the online Fifa /Twitter wankers, Those clubs would literally lose their soul if they made that move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 Biggest concern would be for those clubs like Everton who have to live nearby one of the 'elite'. How do they attract local talent when their nearest neighbours have an unlimited budget and can essentially do whatever the fuck they like. Also any young fan who's torn between the two won't be in the market for a blue jersey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 13 minutes ago, NG32 said: Catering to the online Fifa /Twitter wankers, Those clubs would literally lose their soul if they made that move. On the contrary theyd be absolutely fine, we didn't walk away when Ashley pillage us for 14 years why would their fans walk away because they joined another competition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 26 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said: Biggest concern would be for those clubs like Everton who have to live nearby one of the 'elite'. How do they attract local talent when their nearest neighbours have an unlimited budget and can essentially do whatever the fuck they like. Also any young fan who's torn between the two won't be in the market for a blue jersey. That argument has probably been made a few mies up the road tbh. Swap blue jerseys for red and white striped abominations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, r0cafella said: On the contrary theyd be absolutely fine, we didn't walk away when Ashley pillage us for 14 years why would their fans walk away because they joined another competition? Many people absolutely did walk away under Ashley. Thousands and thousands of us. And whilst the fans wouldn't walk away from their club over the super league, they would stop attending as regularly. There's no rivalry. No history. Part of football is office / pub banter, how many Atletico Madrid or Roma fans do most people know IRL? And once the novelty wears off, how many are going to still be travelling overseas to see them play the same teams again and again? Interest will wane. Even top clubs find the novelty of European football wears off, and that's with different clubs to play each year. We suffered it ourselves. And once the stadia are half-full, sponsorship will dry up and it'll all die. Might take a few years, but it'll happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikri Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, Chris_R said: Many people absolutely did walk away under Ashley. Thousands and thousands of us. And whilst the fans wouldn't walk away from their club over the super league, they would stop attending as regularly. There's no rivalry. No history. Part of football is office / pub banter, how many Atletico Madrid or Roma fans do most people know IRL? And once the novelty wears off, how many are going to still be travelling overseas to see them play the same teams again and again? Interest will wane. Even top clubs find the novelty of European football wears off, and that's with different clubs to play each year. We suffered it ourselves. And once the stadia are half-full, sponsorship will dry up and it'll all die. Might take a few years, but it'll happen. To add to that. A lot of the biggest clubs in Europe have fans from all over the world because they're the top teams in their national leagues. Throw them all into a super league and 15 of those top teams are now the also-rans. What happens when no one is interested in watching Atletico vs Man Utd compete for a 14th place finish? Getting all those huge sponsorship deals is great when you're at the top but what happens when they all dry up because you're now a perennial mid-table team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 13 hours ago, TRon said: But the top clubs in the English league were always the big pull. How do you translate that to a ESL unless you are still part of the PL as well? If the cartel clubs were to break away and the EPL barred them, it would take away a lot of their appeal in this country. Would they put a large global tv audience as a bigger priority over their national appeal which translates to actual in-stadium experience? Yes. In short. The clubs owners would, but not the match going fans. Just my opinion like. They'd far rather see Man United vs Barcelona in New York with an audience, making their theoretical-twice-the-amount because of a more "premium" product than see Southampton versus Man United in front of actual, multi-generational, lifelong members of the communities they are actually exist to represent. Vile. Edited October 15 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 10 hours ago, Dr.Spaceman said: Biggest concern would be for those clubs like Everton who have to live nearby one of the 'elite'. How do they attract local talent when their nearest neighbours have an unlimited budget and can essentially do whatever the fuck they like. Also any young fan who's torn between the two won't be in the market for a blue jersey. Not so sure on the last bit. I think a lot of folk still want to support their local side and a side they have easy access to. If those clubs joined a super league then how long before fixtures are played in neutral venues etc. For "expanding the brand"? Away games will be all but dead for the local fan too. Edited October 15 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 10 hours ago, r0cafella said: On the contrary theyd be absolutely fine, we didn't walk away when Ashley pillage us for 14 years why would their fans walk away because they joined another competition? Some did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 9 minutes ago, Heron said: Some did. Aye, Ashley had to give away 10,000 free half season tickets in his final full season that was open to the public under his ownership. Plenty more would have left as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 10 hours ago, r0cafella said: On the contrary theyd be absolutely fine, we didn't walk away when Ashley pillage us for 14 years why would their fans walk away because they joined another competition? 10yr deal of paying £250 for a season ticket and constant talk of takeover kept a good few going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 22 minutes ago, madras said: 10yr deal of paying £250 for a season ticket and constant talk of takeover kept a good few going. Aye maybe but if they are so easily placated when the life was being sucked out if us doesn't say much does it? To be clear what Ashley did to us is several magnitudes worst than what a super league would mean for these clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 2 hours ago, r0cafella said: Aye maybe but if they are so easily placated when the life was being sucked out if us doesn't say much does it? To be clear what Ashley did to us is several magnitudes worst than what a super league would mean for these clubs. Have to disagree. Ashley was a bad owner, a super league rips up a century and a half of history and wrests clubs from their communities Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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