Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[The College Dropout]

21 minutes ago, Hughesy said:

Staggeringly bad management of our finances if we knew about a potential breach in January and didn’t sell then. There was no realistic way we were going to get into the CL in January, so it wasn’t worth the gamble.

 

Now we are scrambling around with a few days to go and everyone knows we need cash quickly. Embarrassing stuff.

I don’t think it’s staggeringly bad. When Eales said we need to trade that was foreboding selling players we might not want too because of FFP. 

 

We aren’t selling our finest China. Having to sell the best players would be staggered flu bad management. 
 

If we were able to shift Miggy or even a Wilson we would say we’ve managed PSR well.  
 

Having to sell Minteh - a potential superstar is bad and evidence of miscalculation at best. But not gross mismanagement. 1/4 of the league are in the same boat. 

 

 

Edited June 29 by The College Dropout

[The College Dropout]

14 minutes ago, Iwantcurlyhair2 said:

Nobody in their right mind can believe that our board have left it this late to balance the books, they are far too switched on for what's happening. I am convinced though that we are desperate to raise £30-50Mish to create wiggle room going forward for future windows and this is all strategic for the long/medium plan and not to balance this years. There have been no knee jerk transfers, galactico signings or desperate moves to date. (Even Chris Woods was a strategic signing that worked!). Have confidence that they know what they are doing.

If we raise funds before Sunday we increase the £105M loss balance gap for next season's 3 year limit and hopefully 25/26 will have a different psr requirement going forward. PSR won't change mid season so this may be strategic to give us headroom going forward for the short term for next year. I am sure all of the untouchables will remain in black and white this season and I'm also convinced that Wilson, Trips and Miggy will all be offloaded to Saudi in July when their transfer window opens, all for decent money, so this weekend will be purely to maximise the next two seasons spend and the Saudi sales will cover for next season. Any sales this weekend will be for maximum paper profit with Anderson and Longstaff most at risk and all will be player swap type deals for players we actually want. Have faith. Everything up to now has been right with the board.

You better believe it buddy. 
 

The rush for the end of the month means we arr on track to breach. Sales after that is to create headroom for more transfers. 
 

I don’t think having to sell is gross mismanagement either. But having to sell Minteh does mean we’ve miscalculated along the line. He’s not one we would happily trade. Having to sell Isak Gordon or Bruno would be gross mismanagement. 
 

we do have to wake up to the fact we don’t have masterminds in charge. They wil make mistakes. They wil take risks that backfire. 
 

imagine if we didn’t have Minteh to sell. We would have to sell an even more valuable player. 

 

 

Edited June 29 by The College Dropout

[Zero]

I think it’s pretty obvious that we are operating extremely close to the red line, and we are expecting a minimum Top 7 finish that our budget includes Europe competition income. 

 

So no Europe = breaching the FFP/PSR. It isn’t that hard to figure it out I think. We even have deferred Halls transfer to this summer.

[Nucasol]

7 minutes ago, Zero said:

I think it’s pretty obvious that we are operating extremely close to the red line, and we are expecting a minimum Top 7 finish that our budget includes Europe competition income. 

 

So no Europe = breaching the FFP/PSR. It isn’t that hard to figure it out I think. We even have deferred Halls transfer to this summer.

The ‘no Europe’ thing is irrelevant for the point in question. Not qualifying from the Group maybe but I doubt the club would have been so stupid to factor that in. If rumours are to believed it’s above £20m as a shortfall which is basically going deep in the competition or a player sale that hasn’t happened. The latter was supposed to be Almiron to Saudi and here we are.

[Hughesy]

18 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t think it’s staggeringly bad. When Eales said we need to trade that was foreboding selling players we might not want too because of FFP. 

 

We aren’t selling our finest China. Having to sell the best players would be staggered flu bad management. 
 

If we were able to shift Miggy or even a Wilson we would say we’ve managed PSR well.  
 

Having to sell Minteh - a potential superstar is bad and evidence of miscalculation at best. But not gross mismanagement. 1/4 of the league are in the same boat. 

 

 

 

Got to disagree on this - compliance with the rules is calculable and, in January, all reasonable major incomes could have been projected very easily by any accountant.  For no real reason - bar perhaps no one at all wanting any of the likes of Trippier, Wilson, Miggy, Longstaff etc - we are in a position where everyone knows we need to sell and fast. Inexcusable as far as I’m concerned.

[Keegans Export]

2 minutes ago, Hughesy said:

Got to disagree on this - compliance with the rules is calculable and, in January, all reasonable major incomes could have been projected very easily by any accountant.  For no real reason - bar perhaps no one at all wanting any of the likes of Trippier, Wilson, Miggy, Longstaff etc - we are in a position where everyone knows we need to sell and fast. Inexcusable as far as I’m concerned.

This is what I'm trying to work out. How far out could those estimates have been? We were already out of Europe, out of the CL race. The only major variable at that point would have been prize money which is £3m or so per place I think? We knew at that point that 6th was about as good as we could have hoped for and we finished 7th.

 

My best guess is that we thought about selling someone in January but couldn't because the squad was already decimated. Then we assumed we could shift someone in the summer before the deadline and now it seems we can't.

 

I hope all this talk about hawking Gordon around in a desperate attempt to get some cash in is part of some clever plan/ruse because if we've really allowed ourselves to get into this position, complain about the PSR rules all you like, that's a fuck-up on our part somewhere along the line.

[The College Dropout]

11 minutes ago, Hughesy said:

Got to disagree on this - compliance with the rules is calculable and, in January, all reasonable major incomes could have been projected very easily by any accountant.  For no real reason - bar perhaps no one at all wanting any of the likes of Trippier, Wilson, Miggy, Longstaff etc - we are in a position where everyone knows we need to sell and fast. Inexcusable as far as I’m concerned.

If we were able to sell Miggy and satisfy the requirements, would you think that would be inexcusable?

 

I think not selling Trippier was a mistake.  And we probably overspent in the summer. All massive fees. 
 

Mistakes have been made. But unless we are forced to sell a star player, I don’t think it’s gross negligence. 
 

It’s close though.  If Minteh didn’t have that breakthrough year, we’d have to sell a star player it seems. 

 

 

Edited June 29 by The College Dropout

[Zero]

21 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

The ‘no Europe’ thing is irrelevant for the point in question. Not qualifying from the Group maybe but I doubt the club would have been so stupid to factor that in. If rumours are to believed it’s above £20m as a shortfall which is basically going deep in the competition or a player sale that hasn’t happened. The latter was supposed to be Almiron to Saudi and here we are.

Aye, not in Europe probably affecting us for the coming season, not this June 30 deadline.

 

For the June 30 one, I think it’s more about miscalculation, or put it in other words, the EPL clubs realized that the EPL own FFP rules are much more strict than what they thought, after the Everton point deduction. We aren’t the only one that “suddenly caught into trouble”, Man Utd and Villa as well. 
 

I won’t particularly blame the management for this, I think it’s the EPL rules being poorly written that’s the cause.

[Wolfcastle]

We want them to push spending as far as they can don't we?

Certainly not blaming them for that when I know they'd be blamed for not doing that.

[SUPERTOON]

13 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If we were able to sell Miggy and satisfy the requirements, would you think that would be inexcusable?

 

I think not selling Trippier was a mistake.  And we probably overspent in the summer. All massive fees. 
 

Mistakes have been made. But unless we are forced to sell a star player, I don’t think it’s gross negligence. 
 

It’s close though.  If Minteh didn’t have that breakthrough year, we’d have to sell a star player it seems. 

 

 

 

We may still have to yet.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Boey_Jarton said:

RAWK makes interesting reading right now. They have convinced themselves that PSR is at the heart of fairness and any transactions not involving them are cheating. Whilst at the same time salivating at picking up rival club players on the cheap. 

 

Of course they do. Biggest cunts out of the lot of them.

[Slim]

https://x.com/Alwaleed_Debasi/status/1807057596718694608?t=mJU04mHo7_cmH7V2egy5PQ&s=19

[Nucasol]

Just now, Slim said:

https://x.com/Alwaleed_Debasi/status/1807057596718694608?t=mJU04mHo7_cmH7V2egy5PQ&s=19

Isn’t translating for me. Can someone do the honours?

[Slim]

[The College Dropout]

Tbf letting this get down to the last 48 hours is very bad.  

[SAK]

Enough with this selling players bullshit, take the points hit.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, SAK said:

Enough with this selling players bullshit, take the points hit.

Short of selling Gordon and the like. We can’t do this.  

[SUPERTOON]

Anyone think we may have been hoping someone activated Bruno’s release clause ?

[M1tche]

I'm starting to think that this is club playing a very good game, they have done everything pretty much spot on since they took over. So, for them to mess up something as simple as this would be completely baffling, the only way it makes sense if they were banking on 1 of the cases against the league to lead to a rule change that fell our way. Even then, it's a bonkers idea, 

[SUPERTOON]

3 minutes ago, M1tche said:

I'm starting to think that this is club playing a very good game, they have done everything pretty much spot on since they took over. So, for them to mess up something as simple as this would be completely baffling, the only way it makes sense if they were banking on 1 of the cases against the league to lead to a rule change that fell our way. Even then, it's a bonkers idea, 

I’m not buying this mind, why then leak stories of us trying to sell Gordon ?

[TBG]

Granted they've done more in two years than Ashley ever did. And will continue have more ambition than Ashley ever did. But would Ashley have allowed this situation given he would've continued to run the club into the ground.

 

Makes you think.

[andyc35i]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

If we were able to sell Miggy and satisfy the requirements, would you think that would be inexcusable?

 

I think not selling Trippier was a mistake.  And we probably overspent in the summer. All massive fees. 
 

Mistakes have been made. But unless we are forced to sell a star player, I don’t think it’s gross negligence. 
 

It’s close though.  If Minteh didn’t have that breakthrough year, we’d have to sell a star player it seems. 

 

 

 

This is why this whole PSR is just a shambles. A club that’s being run properly with huge and secure backing behind it is being forced to sell players to meet some arbitrary deadline. This thing just really stinks and I can’t understand how every club stands for it.

 

I’ve never wanted unlimited spending and still don’t want it. We just need a fairer way to ensure that all clubs can invest the same amount and not be tied to commercial performance. If you have owners that will make up the difference every year then this should be allowed

 

 

Edited June 29 by andyc35i

[The Bonk]

4 hours ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

 

Maybe assumptions on league place and champions league/uefa progression have bitten us.  And I guess we don’t have any swap mates (yet).  

 

 

 

 

He's going on like we're still run by Ashley and Thumbheed is at the helm.   I just wish his face wasn't so grating to look at or his writing tone so matter of fact when it's been previously proven he gets fed crumbs. I get it's the only way he can earn a living, so credit to him for remaining employed.

 

1 hour ago, Iwantcurlyhair2 said:

Nobody in their right mind can believe that our board have left it this late to balance the books, they are far too switched on for what's happening. I am convinced though that we are desperate to raise £30-50Mish to create wiggle room going forward for future windows and this is all strategic for the long/medium plan and not to balance this years. There have been no knee jerk transfers, galactico signings or desperate moves to date. (Even Chris Woods was a strategic signing that worked!). Have confidence that they know what they are doing.

If we raise funds before Sunday we increase the £105M loss balance gap for next season's 3 year limit and hopefully 25/26 will have a different psr requirement going forward. PSR won't change mid season so this may be strategic to give us headroom going forward for the short term for next year. I am sure all of the untouchables will remain in black and white this season and I'm also convinced that Wilson, Trips and Miggy will all be offloaded to Saudi in July when their transfer window opens, all for decent money, so this weekend will be purely to maximise the next two seasons spend and the Saudi sales will cover for next season. Any sales this weekend will be for maximum paper profit with Anderson and Longstaff most at risk and all will be player swap type deals for players we actually want. Have faith. Everything up to now has been right with the board.

 

☝🏻this is my thinking. PSR and FFP are complete shit, but I'm kinda enjoying the drama of this, the reactions on here are more entertaining than most of the Euro.   

[The Bonk]

2 minutes ago, TBG said:

Granted they've done more in two years than Ashley ever did. And will continue have more ambition than Ashley ever did. But would Ashley have allowed this situation given he would've continued to run the club into the ground.

 

Makes you think.

 

 some of your better work of late. I did enjoy your effort in the Wilson thread tbf.  

[et tu brute]

I see the fanny meltdown in overflow today. Let's just wait and see what actually happens first. We will know for sure next week and then we can start the finger pointing then (if required). Luckily I don't listen to any journalists/media so I take everything that's said by them with a massive pinch of salt.