Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Holloway]

So the cupboard is bare then, wonder who was going to be sacrificed had we lashed out on Guehi

[Sima]

If we don’t spend anything this window, we’ll have spent hardly anything in 18 months while Chelsea will no doubt spend another £400m in the summer.

[TheBrownBottle]

I always think that what often gets lost in all of this is that FFP does protect football clubs.  Or I should say, football club owners.

 

It passes the costs of football almost in their entirety to the supporters.  Clubs can only spend against their income - which comes from ticket and merchandising sales and TV subscriptions and catering and commercials etc.  Even sponsorships are controlled so that the size of a club’s consumer base is a key factor in the size of those deals.  And the owners are capped as to how much they need to put in.

 

It is a racket designed to squeeze every last penny out of the support.  This is why all clubs large and small - with a couple of exceptions - back it now and will back it forever.  It reduces investor risk.  Why would they change it?  Because of the PL’s ‘status’?  The PL was the highest earning league when our teams were being knocked out of Europe by clubs from the old Eastern bloc on a regular basis.  The ‘status’ or ‘standing’ of the PL hasn’t ever made that much of a difference to income in the past.

 

I’m just not seeing any reason for them to change any of the rules. 

[black_n_white]

16 minutes ago, Sima said:

Nah, the restrictions will stay in place but they’ll get “exceptions”.

Of course they will, I expect them to spend millions over the next couple of windows.

[Whitley mag]

Hopefully getting big earners such as Trippier, Wilson and Almiron off the books next summer will help in the short term.

 

I’m shit with numbers but if we qualify for Europe we look way off hitting the 70%, both us and Villa look up the creek as it stands.

 

 

[timeEd32]

16 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Hopefully getting big earners such as Trippier, Wilson and Almiron off the books next summer will help in the short term.

 

I’m shit with numbers but if we qualify for Europe we look way off hitting the 70%, both us and Villa look up the creek as it stands.

 

 

 

This is why I really wanted us to move on Almiron and/or Trippier in the summer regardless of the fee. The two combined are over £8m of costs. 

 

[SAK]

Wish some PIF affiliated companies chucked us a few sponsorships after the recent APT rule reversal where the onus is back on the league to prove it’s not fair market value.

 

Tired of us always playing nice.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 21:44 by SAK

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

With the new 80%/70% revenue rules is there still a 3 year rolling period?  

[Cf]

7 hours ago, Mike said:

Honestly, just take the points deductions. Fuck them.

 

As long as we don't do something silly like splurge a billion I almost think it's worth the likes of us and Villa taking a points hit. 

 

It was a big story when Everton and Forest took a penalty but, well, who really cares?

 

Us or Villa though I think would be a bigger story and really put the pressure on if we've been seen to have spent modest amounts that we can clearly afford, whilst also being less than your Chelsea's. Would show it for the fix it is and be quite hard to ignore. 

 

"Newcastle take points hit and miss out on CL qualification because they refused to sell Isak to Arsenal" would be quite the headline. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Cf said:

 

As long as we don't do something silly like splurge a billion I almost think it's worth the likes of us and Villa taking a points hit. 

 

It was a big story when Everton and Forest took a penalty but, well, who really cares?

 

Us or Villa though I think would be a bigger story and really put the pressure on if we've been seen to have spent modest amounts that we can clearly afford, whilst also being less than your Chelsea's. Would show it for the fix it is and be quite hard to ignore. 

 

"Newcastle take points hit and miss out on CL qualification because they refused to sell Isak to Arsenal" would be quite the headline. 

Puts pressure on who?

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Puts pressure on who?

Yep, it’s pressure on no-one.  Yesterday’s headlines etc.  It would fill up an hour’s discussion on talkSHITE, then be immediately forgotten about.  Few would really care; and realistically, if say West Ham missed out because they kept hold of, say, Bowen  who’d been bid for by Liverpool - how many on here would really, genuinely give a shite?  You know, beyond a few ‘tuts’ and ‘tsks’.  We wouldn’t.  Most football fans ultimately don’t give a shite for the wider game, only their own club.  

[r0cafella]

13 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep, it’s pressure on no-one.  Yesterday’s headlines etc.  It would fill up an hour’s discussion on talkSHITE, then be immediately forgotten about.  Few would really care; and realistically, if say West Ham missed out because they kept hold of, say, Bowen  who’d been bid for by Liverpool - how many on here would really, genuinely give a shite?  You know, beyond a few ‘tuts’ and ‘tsks’.  We wouldn’t.  Most football fans ultimately don’t give a shite for the wider game, only their own club.  

Precisely I know instinctively it feels as though it should but in reality it simple isn't the case. The decision makers are the owners who are absolutely love the current arrangements. We need a remarkable down turn in the fortunes of the cartel clubs to see this loosened further and even then it would be remarkably stupid of then to do so. 

[macphisto]

3 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Precisely I know instinctively it feels as though it should but in reality it simple isn't the case. The decision makers are the owners who are absolutely love the current arrangements. We need a remarkable down turn in the fortunes of the cartel clubs to see this loosened further and even then it would be remarkably stupid of then to do so. 

I could easily see the current regulations change for three reasons. One is that it has made the league more competitive and that is why we are seeing Spurs and Man U where they are. PSR had made it very difficult to buy any decent player in the PL which means a lot of teams are now hanging onto their best players. 

 

The other reason is that a lot of teams rely on selling players; I personally don't think we made a genuine bid for Guehi but a lot of those type of deals would now go through with changes to PSR. £60 million+ is a huge amount for clubs like Palace. 

 

Last reason is that the Premier League will want to keep it's position as the top league in the world. 

[Gawalls]

The only way it will ever change imo is if we have quite a few dry transfer windows back to back then sky turn round and push the matter saying “our transfer window viewing figures are down as nobody is interested in watching sensible shopping” and they push to less for rights.

[Joe1984]

13 hours ago, toon25 said:

So is the long and short of it that we can't buy?

As long as we don't qualify for Europe we'll be okay.

 

If we do then we're fucked... 🤣

[ExiledGeordie]

What are the PSR restrictions for teams in the other main leagues in Europe? Secondly I haven’t read fully the tweets about qualifying for Europe but am Right in understanding that qualifying for Europe actually makes a PSR situation worse?

[r0cafella]

36 minutes ago, macphisto said:

I could easily see the current regulations change for three reasons. One is that it has made the league more competitive and that is why we are seeing Spurs and Man U where they are. PSR had made it very difficult to buy any decent player in the PL which means a lot of teams are now hanging onto their best players. 

 

The other reason is that a lot of teams rely on selling players; I personally don't think we made a genuine bid for Guehi but a lot of those type of deals would now go through with changes to PSR. £60 million+ is a huge amount for clubs like Palace. 

 

Last reason is that the Premier League will want to keep it's position as the top league in the world. 

Psr hasn't made the league more competitive at all, it's only caused the existing elite clubs to be protected. Of course season like this will happen whereby one of them takes a stumble for overall when plotted out over a longer period then amount spent/allowed to be spent correlates nicely with where you finish. Our owners are aware of this as displayed in the Amazon documentary. 

 

Most teams prefer restrained competition to a large transfer market, ultimately it's not everyday you have a Declan rice but weather you have him or not your still getting TV money. Clubs like Palace are looking over their shoulders last thing they want is a oligarch taking over a championship club and increasing competition for them. 

 

The top league in the world is a pure marketing issue, it has very little to do with quality, the premier league has maintained this status without having the best players and whilst these rules exist. 

[Miggys First Goal]

Completely takes the enjoyment out of football all this worrying about money shite. 

[JonBez comesock]

There are hundreds of good players out there in world football  (under the radar) if our scouting network is up to scratch 

 

Lots of clubs like Dortmund , Bayern , Two Red Bull Clubs , Brighton continue to find hidden gems. 
 

We need to buy them before they become household names. 
 

It’s our only way until we increase commercial revenue , Move ground and continuously qualify for one of the European competitions 

 

 

Edited Friday at 07:42 by JonBez comesock

[ExiledGeordie]

1 minute ago, JonBez comesock said:

Here are hundreds of good players out there (under the radar) of our scouting network is up to scratch 

 

Lots of clubs like Dortmund , Bayern , Two Red Bull Clubs , Brighton continue to find hidden gems. 
 

We need to buy them before they become household names. 

Spot on

[Unbelievable]

2 hours ago, Gawalls said:

The only way it will ever change imo is if we have quite a few dry transfer windows back to back then sky turn round and push the matter saying “our transfer window viewing figures are down as nobody is interested in watching sensible shopping” and they push to less for rights.

English clubs not doing well in Europe, falling ever further behind the likes of Real Madrid and Bayern, and some of the top six languishing in midtable in the PL and losing players to foreign clubs (like we are seeing now) will do the trick. Would help if the likes of Villa and us manage to take CL qualification spots from them. In short, they’ve put restrictions in place to stop us. Once they realise they are losing out because of them they will be lifted, probably in a way designed to specifically suit them and harm us.

[Lotus]

Think the PL needs an independent regulator who sets the rules and handles disputes, punishments, etc.

Who it would be to choose such a regulator I don’t know and how they could be kept free from influence of people with vested interests, don’t know that either.

[Lotus]

Aside from that, have we heard anything else about new commercial deals? 

[Jackie Broon]

33 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Think the PL needs an independent regulator who sets the rules and handles disputes, punishments, etc.

Who it would be to choose such a regulator I don’t know and how they could be kept free from influence of people with vested interests, don’t know that either.

 

Not going to happen unfortunately. The government's stance, even with the football governance bill, is that the PSR is a matter for the PL. I, like a sad fucker, wrote to Lisa Nandy about the way PSR enshrines the dominance of the big 6 and this was the response i received:

 

Thank you for your correspondence of 8 October, about the Premier League’s profit and sustainability rules and I apologise for the delay in responding to you. I had constructive conversations with a number of Premier League clubs prior to the introduction of the Football Governance Bill earlier this year. I am committed to ensuring that fans like yourself are at the heart of the game - and that clubs up and down the country can continue bringing joy to millions, rather than worrying about financial losses and instability as is so often the case, and as you have written about.

 

That is why the government has introduced the Football Governance Bill to establish an independent football regulator. Whilst the regulator will not have responsibility for profit and sustainability rules, it will protect and promote the sustainability of English football more broadly, in the interests of fans and the local communities football clubs serve.

 

Ultimately the Premier League is responsible for implementing its own profit and sustainability rules. The Premier League's processes are outlined in the Premier League Handbook at the start of each season, and agreed by all clubs. If you are dissatisfied with any of the Premier League's processes or decisions, I would recommend contacting them directly to request a fuller explanation.

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

English clubs not doing well in Europe, falling ever further behind the likes of Real Madrid and Bayern, and some of the top six languishing in midtable in the PL and losing players to foreign clubs (like we are seeing now) will do the trick. Would help if the likes of Villa and us manage to take CL qualification spots from them. In short, they’ve put restrictions in place to stop us. Once they realise they are losing out because of them they will be lifted, probably in a way designed to specifically suit them and harm us.

Top 6 clubs still have the run of players in Europe beyond a few elite clubs. And PSR isn’t the reason they lose out to Real Madrid.  
 

PL buying power for the top 6 and most of the league still outstrips European competition. It just keeps costs down a little which is a bonus for owners. 
 

I don’t think English clubs not doing well in Europe matters.  I think English clubs have won 5 CLs since Istanbul.  Real Madrid alone have won 6. The PL is bigger than ever and RM will always be RM.  
 

Most PL clubs don’t want the competition that an upper limit would bring. Most PL clubs would be loved Forest to have gotten relegated.  Forest beat the system.  Spent their way to PL security. PL clubs want Ipswich and Southamptons.  Go up and go down. 
 

44 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Aside from that, have we heard anything else about new commercial deals? 

nothing of the magnitude we need.  We need to get to 400m revenue asap.