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Champions League 2023/2024: Group F (Newcastle, Milan, Dortmund, PSG)


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1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Does SJP still suffer from the 'giant European Cup pitchside advertising' that it used to all those years ago?  We had reduced capacity in the CL games as the first row or so of the East Stand, Leazes & Gallowgate had their view blocked by giant gaudy adverstisements

They’re going to sell the seats this time but with a discount due to restricted view.

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9 hours ago, OCOCOL said:


Your proposal would win by a landslide among the over 40s (sorry if I’ve prematurely aged you).however I’ve just asked my son and his mate (13 and 14) and they’ve looked at me like I’ve suggested we ground share with the mackems at the SOL

Just explain to them about the hegemony the current system creates.

 

 

Edited by madras

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The first European Cup winners I can definitely remember are Porto in 1987.

 

Steaua Bucharest won it the year before. PSV won it a year later, Red Star won it four years later, Marseille won it six years later.

 

That’s the strongest argument I can give that the ‘Champions League’ has damaged European club football. 

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So the time is getting near, only a week or so to go, so who'd you like to get and who'd you like to avoid.

The link below is showing, not clearly, the teams that can be in this season league - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023–24_UEFA_Champions_League

 

It showing as - 

 

Pot 1: Manchester City, Sevilla, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Napoli, Paris SG, Benfica, Feyenoord 
Pot 2: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Manchester United, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto, Arsenal 
Pot 3: AC milan, lazio, Red Bull Salzburg,  red star belgrade, shakthtar donesk, real sociedad, celtic  +1
Pot 4: Newcastle United, Union Berlin, Lens, +5

 

The six team to fill the remaining spots are from the following - 

 

Raków Czestochowa / FC Copenhagen
Rangers / PSV Eindhoven
Royal Antwerp / AEK Athens
Maccabi Haifa / Young Boys
Molde / Galatasaray
Sporting Braga / Panathinaikos

 

So taking out English teams, and adding all of the six fixtures into pot 3 (as it's as clear as mud as to who's where) - we end up with - 

EDIT - Found this link to the 'Paths' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023–24_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_phase_and_play-off_round#League_Path

 

POTS:

Pot 1: Sevilla, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Napoli, Paris SG, Benfica, Feyenoord 
Pot 2: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto
Pot 3: AC milan, lazio, Red Bull Salzburg,  red star belgrade, shakthtar donesk, real sociedad, celtic 
Raków Czestochowa / FC Copenhagen # Rangers / PSV Eindhoven # Royal Antwerp / AEK Athens # Maccabi Haifa / Young Boys # Molde / Galatasaray # Sporting Braga / Panathinaikos

 

What would be the best result (as in getting to the next group stage) and the worst, and what would be your preference ?

 

Worst

Bayern

Real

AC Milan

 

Best

Feyenoord

RB Leipzig

Molde

 

Preferred

Napoli

Atletico

Rangers

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by South-Cheshire-Toon

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24 minutes ago, South-Cheshire-Toon said:

So the time is getting near, only a week or so to go, so who'd you like to get and who'd you like to avoid.

The link below is showing, not clearly, the teams that can be in this season league - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023–24_UEFA_Champions_League

 

It showing as - 

 

Pot 1: Manchester City, Sevilla, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Napoli, Paris SG, Benfica, Feyenoord 
Pot 2: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Manchester United, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto, Arsenal 
Pot 3: AC milan, lazio, Red Bull Salzburg,  red star belgrade, shakthtar donesk, real sociedad, celtic  +1
Pot 4: Newcastle United, Union Berlin, Lens, +5

 

The six team to fill the remaining spots are from the following - 

 

Raków Czestochowa / FC Copenhagen
Rangers / PSV Eindhoven
Royal Antwerp / AEK Athens
Maccabi Haifa / Young Boys
Molde / Galatasaray
Sporting Braga / Panathinaikos

 

So taking out English teams, and adding all of the six fixtures into pot 3 (as it's as clear as mud as to who's where) - we end up with - 

EDIT - Found this link to the 'Paths' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023–24_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_phase_and_play-off_round#League_Path

 

POTS:

Pot 1: Sevilla, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Napoli, Paris SG, Benfica, Feyenoord 
Pot 2: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto
Pot 3: AC milan, lazio, Red Bull Salzburg,  red star belgrade, shakthtar donesk, real sociedad, celtic 
Raków Czestochowa / FC Copenhagen # Rangers / PSV Eindhoven # Royal Antwerp / AEK Athens # Maccabi Haifa / Young Boys # Molde / Galatasaray # Sporting Braga / Panathinaikos

 

What would be the best result (as in getting to the next group stage) and the worst, and what would be your preference ?

 

Worst

Bayern

Real

AC Milan

 

Best

Feyenoord

RB Leipzig

Molde

 

Preferred

Napoli

Atletico

Rangers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still think the worst group is the dream group tbh

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Go big or go to Dublin group 

Bayern Munich
Real Madrid
Rangers / PSV Eindhoven

Great trips with the Geordies taking over group

Benfica
Atletico Madrid
Red Bull Salzburg

Top spot for the Toon group

Feyenoord 
RB Leipzig
Celtic 

Of these 3 the top one is just too much fun not to route for it :) Buzzing this is only a week away, gunna be sooo fucking good! 

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32 minutes ago, South-Cheshire-Toon said:

So the time is getting near, only a week or so to go, so who'd you like to get and who'd you like to avoid.

The link below is showing, not clearly, the teams that can be in this season league - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023–24_UEFA_Champions_League

 

It showing as - 

 

Pot 1: Manchester City, Sevilla, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Napoli, Paris SG, Benfica, Feyenoord 
Pot 2: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Manchester United, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto, Arsenal 
Pot 3: AC milan, lazio, Red Bull Salzburg,  red star belgrade, shakthtar donesk, real sociedad, celtic  +1
Pot 4: Newcastle United, Union Berlin, Lens, +5

 

The six team to fill the remaining spots are from the following - 

 

Raków Czestochowa / FC Copenhagen
Rangers / PSV Eindhoven
Royal Antwerp / AEK Athens
Maccabi Haifa / Young Boys
Molde / Galatasaray
Sporting Braga / Panathinaikos

 

So taking out English teams, and adding all of the six fixtures into pot 3 (as it's as clear as mud as to who's where) - we end up with - 

EDIT - Found this link to the 'Paths' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023–24_UEFA_Champions_League_qualifying_phase_and_play-off_round#League_Path

 

POTS:

Pot 1: Sevilla, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Napoli, Paris SG, Benfica, Feyenoord 
Pot 2: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Porto
Pot 3: AC milan, lazio, Red Bull Salzburg,  red star belgrade, shakthtar donesk, real sociedad, celtic 
Raków Czestochowa / FC Copenhagen # Rangers / PSV Eindhoven # Royal Antwerp / AEK Athens # Maccabi Haifa / Young Boys # Molde / Galatasaray # Sporting Braga / Panathinaikos

 

What would be the best result (as in getting to the next group stage) and the worst, and what would be your preference ?

 

Worst

Bayern

Real

AC Milan

 

Best

Feyenoord

RB Leipzig

Molde

 

Preferred

Napoli

Atletico

Rangers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pot 3 will contain - AC Milan, Lazio, Red Star, RB Salzburg, Shakhtar, one of PSV/Rangers, and then two of the below in order, depending on who comes through the playoff round:

 

Braga (if they beat Panathinaikos, lead 2-1 from home leg)

Copenhagen (if they beat Rakow, 1-1 from the away leg)

 

If those 2 come through then Pot 3 is sorted with the above 5, PSV/Rangers, and those 2 making up the 8.

 

If either of those 2 lose then Young Boys will get in if they beat Maccabi Haifa (0-0 from the away leg), Sociedad are next in line, then Galatasaray (lead 3-2 from away leg, so should go through), then Celtic, but Celtic need ALL of Braga, Copenhagen, Young Boys and Galatasaray to get knocked out, so chances are they will join us in Pot 4. Panathinaikos, AEK, Antwerp, Molde, Maccabi, and Rakow will all be in Pot 4 if they come through so we definitely won't be playing any of those in the group stages.

 

I'd like Feyenoord in Pot 1 and Young Boys/Copenhagen in Pot 3 because we should beat both of those and the latter two would be nice / safe trips for our fans. If we got Leipzig in Pot 2 then, without wanting to sound arrogant or over confident, there would be a decent chance we would qualify with a game to spare. No gimmes but Feyenoord's record signing would have been Minteh, and they have made a slow start to their league, and with the 400m or so invested over the past couple of years, despite a hostile environment we should have too much for them and YB/Copenhagen and should be looking at 3 or 4 points from Leipzig. 

 

If we got Feyenoord and a weaker Pot 3 side then I wouldn't mind a glamour Pot 2 side to potentially create more memories as, hopefully soon, but you don't know the next time we will be in the CL with 7 or 8 teams going for 4 or 5 spots, and we should still go through, but the more I think about it, the 'easier' I would like it to be in terms of travel, opposition strength etc. and I've definitely gone off the idea of being OK with 3rd and a chance of a good Europa run as that will likely impact the latter part of the season.

 

 

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Just now, jack j said:

Celtic are in pot 4 same as us aren't they?

Extremely likely to be - they'd need Molde to overturn their 3-2 deficit to Gala, they'd need Panthinaikos to get past Braga, Maccabi to get past Young Boys, and Rakow to get past Copenhagen. 2 or 3 of them might happen, but very unlikely that all 4 do, especially Molde, you'd get very good odds on a 4 fold acca for them all to come through and Celtic to sneak into Pot 3.

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34 minutes ago, Paullow said:

 

Pot 3 will contain - AC Milan, Lazio, Red Star, RB Salzburg, Shakhtar, one of PSV/Rangers, and then two of the below in order, depending on who comes through the playoff round:

 

Braga (if they beat Panathinaikos, lead 2-1 from home leg)

Copenhagen (if they beat Rakow, 1-1 from the away leg)

 

If those 2 come through then Pot 3 is sorted with the above 5, PSV/Rangers, and those 2 making up the 8.

 

If either of those 2 lose then Young Boys will get in if they beat Maccabi Haifa (0-0 from the away leg), Sociedad are next in line, then Galatasaray (lead 3-2 from away leg, so should go through), then Celtic, but Celtic need ALL of Braga, Copenhagen, Young Boys and Galatasaray to get knocked out, so chances are they will join us in Pot 4. Panathinaikos, AEK, Antwerp, Molde, Maccabi, and Rakow will all be in Pot 4 if they come through so we definitely won't be playing any of those in the group stages.

 

I'd like Feyenoord in Pot 1 and Young Boys/Copenhagen in Pot 3 because we should beat both of those and the latter two would be nice / safe trips for our fans. If we got Leipzig in Pot 2 then, without wanting to sound arrogant or over confident, there would be a decent chance we would qualify with a game to spare. No gimmes but Feyenoord's record signing would have been Minteh, and they have made a slow start to their league, and with the 400m or so invested over the past couple of years, despite a hostile environment we should have too much for them and YB/Copenhagen and should be looking at 3 or 4 points from Leipzig. 

 

If we got Feyenoord and a weaker Pot 3 side then I wouldn't mind a glamour Pot 2 side to potentially create more memories as, hopefully soon, but you don't know the next time we will be in the CL with 7 or 8 teams going for 4 or 5 spots, and we should still go through, but the more I think about it, the 'easier' I would like it to be in terms of travel, opposition strength etc. and I've definitely gone off the idea of being OK with 3rd and a chance of a good Europa run as that will likely impact the latter part of the season.

 

 

 

A VERY big thank you for doing this -  I saw all of the co-eff's and thought this is just too much to work out (well I am doing a day job) - so hat's off to you for working it out.

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Why do people want a hard group :lol: ? I don’t care about lovely days out; I don’t want us to just take part and have a little sing-song piss-up, I want us to progress as far as possible. Getting tomato can teams all the way through would be preferable imo. 

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3 hours ago, McCormick said:

Why do people want a hard group :lol: ? I don’t care about lovely days out; I don’t want us to just take part and have a little sing-song piss-up, I want us to progress as far as possible. Getting tomato can teams all the way through would be preferable imo. 

I always think the best draw for England at major tournaments is 1 good team (for the occassion and to keep us on our toes) and 2 very beatable teams. I want the same in the CL.

 

One point I would make just because it needs to be emphasized imo is that even the easiest possible group would contain 3 teams with vastly more experience in Europe than us. 

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10 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The first European Cup winners I can definitely remember are Porto in 1987.

 

Steaua Bucharest won it the year before. PSV won it a year later, Red Star won it four years later, Marseille won it six years later.

 

That’s the strongest argument I can give that the ‘Champions League’ has damaged European club football. 

English clubs were banned or just back in Europe when those teams won the competition.

Liverpool and Everton would have won a few between them in the late 80s.

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Only champions in the Champions League would be extremely boring. Watching Bayern, PSG, Man City, Real/Barca and some Italian team thats usually Juve in the semis every year would get tiring fast.

 

 

Edited by Pata

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8 minutes ago, SteV said:

Hopefully the first game is at home. 
 

Less than three weeks for the club to sort tickets and fans to sort holidays, travel and accommodation sounds like a nightmare.

If it has to be away, German or Spanish team please. 

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4 hours ago, Pata said:

Only champions in the Champions League would be extremely boring. Watching Bayern, PSG, Man City, Real/Barca and some Italian team thats usually Juve in the semis every year would get tiring fast.

 

 

 

Hang on - you’ve just described the current CL …

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14 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Hang on - you’ve just described the current CL …

 

Nah, the first rounds would be way more boring than they are now even if the later rounds would be somewhat similar. I wouldn't be seeing matches like Bayern-Atletico or Real Madrid-Dortmund which are usually fun. Instead it would be Bayern-Häcken or Real Madrid-Dinamo Zagreb that no one would care about until eventually the big clubs meet in the semis.  And in the current system big teams can meet in the earlier rounds which can give us match-ups like Derby della Madonnina in the semis

 

 

Edited by Pata

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Not fussed about Pot1 so I'll go Feyenoord based on my Pot2 and 3 being hard enough, Minteh being there, the Dam etc etc 

Pot2 Athletico

Shithouse derby. The Masters v the Apprentices. 

Two nil nil games with a, combined, 32mins of "ball in play" 

Pot3 AC Milan

Sandro scores the winner, in the San Siro, final group game, to take us through. Doesn't celebrate until he gets back home and books another table at The Bullman

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10 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

Not fussed about Pot1 so I'll go Feyenoord based on my Pot2 and 3 being hard enough, Minteh being there, the Dam etc etc 

Pot2 Athletico

Shithouse derby. The Masters v the Apprentices. 

Two nil nil games with a, combined, 32mins of "ball in play" 

Pot3 AC Milan

Sandro scores the winner, in the San Siro, final group game, to take us through. Doesn't celebrate until he gets back home and books another table at The Bullman

Minteh get a game? Their fans are rotten mind, same as Italians. Portugal, Spain, German teams plus maybe salzberg would be great trips. Would be underwhelming getting rangers too

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