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Sandro Tonali

The Prophet

by The Prophet
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Andy

Andy

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Menace said:

"we look better with longstaff"

 

These arguments were always stupid tbh. Just ignoring all nuance and any other variables that could affect performances and results, and plumping straight for "LONGSTAFF PLAY TEAM GOOD, TONALI PLAY TEAM BAD"

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Fak

Fak

Posted
Posted
Just now, Fak said:


Michael Bridges


Tonali also had a volley blocked in the 18yard box last night which, if it had gone in, would have been his hat trick. 
 

Bridges then prompted the question that if you score with the outside and inside of your boot as well as your laces would that also constitute as a perfect hat trick. 

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Smal

Smal

Posted
Posted

really enjoying his performances as a 6. He's much better at receiving the ball than I expected. 

 

Once Bruno has more playing time as an 8 I expect his performances will pick up too, which is exciting. 

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Myleftboot

Myleftboot

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Fak said:


Tonali also had a volley blocked in the 18yard box last night which, if it had gone in, would have been his hat trick. 
 

Bridges then prompted the question that if you score with the outside and inside of your boot as well as your laces would that also constitute as a perfect hat trick. 

I thought the perfect hatrick was left foot,right foot and head. Like Peter lovenkrands did when playing for us. Can’t remember who it was against.

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Fak

Fak

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

I thought the perfect hatrick was left foot,right foot and head. Like Peter lovenkrands did when playing for us. Can’t remember who it was against.


Aye it is. Bridges was saying if an inside/outside and boot the laces would also be classed as a perfect hat trick. Bloke was talking absolute waffles. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Andy said:

 

These arguments were always stupid tbh. Just ignoring all nuance and any other variables that could affect performances and results, and plumping straight for "LONGSTAFF PLAY TEAM GOOD, TONALI PLAY TEAM BAD"

That's also a bit of a strawman that ironically ignores all of the nuance and other variables about the argument that was being made at the time. Longstaff and Tonali are no longer vying for the same position for a start. 

 

 

Edited by Kid Icarus

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Andy

Andy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

That's also a bit of a strawman that ironically ignores all of the nuance and other variables about the argument that was being made at the time. Longstaff and Tonali are no longer vying for the same position for a start. 

 

The argument being made earlier in the season, by a lot of people, not everyone, was that in the games where we won, we did so because Longstaff was on the pitch. 

 

The statement "we were winning when Longstaff was on the pitch" may be true, but it evidently wasn't the reason. I had at least one lengthy argument on here that removing Longstaff from the team and adding in Tonali (which is what has happened, regardless of the positional switch) was a no brainer. People were saying they couldn't see what Tonali offered that Longstaff didn't because he wasn't changing the game in 30 minutes cameos where we were losing. 

 

It's absolutely no surprise that finding a way to build the team around the best central midfielder on our books has seen a tangible improvement in both form and performances. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

The argument being made earlier in the season, by a lot of people, not everyone, was that in the games where we won, we did so because Longstaff was on the pitch. 

 

The statement "we were winning when Longstaff was on the pitch" may be true, but it evidently wasn't the reason. I had at least one lengthy argument on here that removing Longstaff from the team and adding in Tonali (which is what has happened, regardless of the positional switch) was a no brainer. People were saying they couldn't see what Tonali offered that Longstaff didn't because he wasn't changing the game in 30 minutes cameos where we were losing. 

 

It's absolutely no surprise that finding a way to build the team around the best central midfielder on our books has seen a tangible improvement in both form and performances. 

 

Obviously it'll depend on who you were talking to about it, but I know that the argument I (and I think Heron) had was that like-for-like, as in Tonali or Longstaff in that right-sided 8 position it was a no-brainer about who was more effective, regardless of  talent. The whole back and forth had loads of caveats about how long-term Tonali should obviously play and that we need to find a role for him and so on. Suggesting that the argument was as reductive as 'Longstaff plays so we're better than if we play Tonali' isn't really fair like. Again, unless you were talking to someone else like - I just seem to remember you and Heron going back and forth, but could be mistaken. 

 

You say 'regardless of the positional switch', but I think that's really something you can't disregard when that in itself means he's not in competition with Longstaff for the same role anymore. It's Bruno vs Longstaff now and it was only maybe 3 weeks ago when Tonali - having been completely wasted in the right-sided position was tried out and in competition with Willock and Joelinton on the left side. Howe's only finally settled on putting him in the 6 with Bruno on the right since Liverpool 2 weeks ago. 

 

 

Edited by Kid Icarus

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ponsaelius

ponsaelius

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Myleftboot said:

I thought the perfect hatrick was left foot,right foot and head. Like Peter lovenkrands did when playing for us. Can’t remember who it was against.

 

Plymouth FA Cup replay?

 

Was just discussing that game yesterday funnily enough, think it was lowest home attendance I can ever remember us having in a competitive game.

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Andy

Andy

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You say 'regardless of the positional switch', but I think that's really something you can't disregard when that in itself means he's not in competition with Longstaff for the same role anymore. It's Bruno vs Longstaff now

 

I disagree with this. Bruno is in the team regardless. The switch to the teamsheet that needed to be made (and that I was clamouring for) was Longstaff out, Tonali in. 

 

That change is the sole reason we've been able to accommodate Bruno moving to the right. No other player could sit centrally like Tonali has, particularly Longstaff. 

 

Howe hasn't dropped Longstaff for Bruno, he's dropped him for Tonali. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

I disagree with this. Bruno is in the team regardless. The switch to the teamsheet that needed to be made (and that I was clamouring for) was Longstaff out, Tonali in. 

 

That change is the sole reason we've been able to accommodate Bruno moving to the right. No other player could sit centrally like Tonali has, particularly Longstaff. 

 

Howe hasn't dropped Longstaff for Bruno, he's dropped him for Tonali. 

 

And the point that we were making is that as a direct swap in the role Longstaff plays, Tonali was unsuitable with Longstaff as the demostrably better option. I thought that point (even if you disagree with it) was really clear like, because not long after I remember me and Heron saying that Tonali was no longer in competition with Longstaff, but with Willock/Joelinton on the left. 

 

In shorthand it's Longstaff out, Tonali in, but in terms of their roles it's Bruno for Longstaff, Tonali for Bruno.

 

 

Edited by Kid Icarus

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Andy

Andy

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 

And the point that we were making is that as a direct swap in the role Longstaff plays, Tonali was unsuitable. I thought that point (even if you disagree with it) was really clear like, because not long after I remember me and Heron saying that Tonali was no longer in competition with Longstaff, but with Willock/Joelinton on the left. 

 

In shorthand it's Longstaff out, Tonali in, but in terms of their roles it's Bruno for Longstaff, Tonali for Bruno.

 

I don't think we're referring to the same discussions. I don't even remember arguing with you about it, although I'm not saying it didn't happen :lol:

 

My mindset has always been that you play your best midfielders. For me, that meant Tonali coming in to the team and finding a way for it to work, which is what has ultimately happened. 

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Andy said:

 

I don't think we're referring to the same discussions. I don't even remember arguing with you about it, although I'm not saying it didn't happen :lol:

 

My mindset has always been that you play your best midfielders. For me, that meant Tonali coming in to the team and finding a way for it to work, which is what has ultimately happened. 

 

Yeah there's a decent chance we're talking about different discussion like. :lol:

 

Yeah, I can definitely get on board with that mindset, but chemistry and all that comes into it as well I suppose. Tonali on that right side was such a waste, I'm pleased that we now seem to have found a solution that brings out the best in him and Bruno. 

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jonny1403

jonny1403

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, TBG said:

Can't help loving Bruno. 

 

Can see why so many of our fans take so much enjoyment over discussing how much we can sell him for.

 

I know it might not make the most PSR sense but out of Bruno, Gordon and Isak I'd sacrifice the latter two ahead of Bruno. He just gets the club. I'll be gutted if/when he eventually leaves. He could be here for another decade.

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Tiresias

Tiresias

Posted
Posted

There will be heartbreaking sales to come, i honestly think it may just come down to the players though, if a player wants to go, doesn't want to be here we may just want to cash in and buy smart. We need to get ahead of this in future though, i feel all the sensible clubs that do sell already have replacements on the books, relying on someone coming in and fitting in immediately isn't great

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