Swazzdro Tonali

[M1tche]

I think we will slowly see a transition away from Longstaff starting most games.

 

From the times Tonali has come recently it looks like Howe wants him and Bruno to rotate in the deepest role, and it looks decent when they do it. 

 

Once that's done we'll become very fluid, with the front 3 of Joe, Isak and Gordan rotating, midfield 3 of Willock, Bruno and Tonali rotating, with only Bruno or Tonali being the deepest, and also Hall and Joe dipping into areas to overload when we have the ball. It's going to be good to watch if it all clicks. 

 

I also think Tonali instantly slots into the Italy team, and looks like the player we bought because it's a more traditional role that he's playing. 

[STM]

Let's just try, just once, this front 6:

 

                     Tonali

         Bruno               Willock

Joelinton                        Gordon

                       Isak

[Erikse]

The fact that he didn't start last game when we won isn't actually that great of an argument when you consider that we were struggling offensively in the first half, and scored 2 goals after he came on, with him being involved in both of them.

 

Just to use an extreme example to demonstrate, lets say you bench prime Messi for some wild reason, and he wins the game coming on from the bench because he's the best player out there. This doesn't prove that benching him and subbing him on in the second half is a winning strategy, as the win would probably have been comfortable with him starting.

 

Not saying anything was right or wrong last game, just commenting on the idea that us winning somehow proves that starting Tonali on the bench was right.

 

 

Edited November 16 by Erikse

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

See futher: Ben Arfa, Hatem & the ‘blinder’

[Sibierski]

2 hours ago, Smal said:

 

There is more room for the RCM to be involved if Willock is playing I think, as it often means the RCM has to sit deeper. Especially if teams try to mark Bruno out of the game as they often do. Longstaff attempted 48 passes vs Bruno's 38 in the last game for example. 

 

 

 

That’s fair, I was thinking more getting into the box like Tonali goal other day (and on his debut). That’s the side I’d like to see more when playing RCM, as one thing that let Longstaff down in 22/23 was he kept getting into good scoring positions and often had weak efforts (Southampton game aside where it all clicked). 

[Geogaddi]

22 hours ago, Heron said:

Of course you can compare them - just the incessant desire to downplay Sean Longstaff is absolutely tiresome.

 

There appears to be folk who had their concerns about Longstaff starting ahead of Tonali who are now saying "Yeah - we are performing and so is Longstaff and we're getting wins". Hats off to these folk for not being so stubborn and set in their ways.

 

There are others absolutely hell bent on him being dropped for Tonali - who is clearly a more talented footballer but to date hasn't quite connected in the existing system and roles deployed.

 

That's not to say he is a bad signing, doesn't fit our system or anything. It will take time and work with him to fine tune the maximum we can get out of him. After a prolonged period of time then perhaps he is a bad singing but he's only had like 10/15games for us and not even full games. I'm positive we can get the best out of him - whether that be in the existing system or an alternative/evolution of it.

 

FWIW - at the start of the season I identified Hall as being our defensive weak link - he's now solid as a rock. I just never understand this position folk seem to have that their opinion is 'locked in'.

 

Suppose it would absolutely make sense for us to start a side that isn't getting results versus a one that is...wouldn't it...

 

 

 

Tonali is clearly a far better player than Longstaff but the results show we are a far better team and get more points when Longstaff plays, results have also shown that when Tonali, Bruno and Joelinton all start it doesn't work and we get less points, it might change at some point but its undisputable at the minute. I don't particularly rate Longstaff but its mad that people will still try and find ways to make out that its purely coincidental that we look a better team and get more points when he plays.

 

 

Edited November 16 by Geogaddi

[SUPERTOON]

4 minutes ago, Geogaddi said:

Tonali is clearly a far better player than Longstaff but the results show we are a far better team and get more points when Longstaff plays, results have also shown that when Tonali, Bruno and Joelinton all start it doesn't work and we get less points, it might change at some point but its undisputable at the minute. I don't particularly rate Longstaff but its mad that people will still try and find ways to make out that its purely coincidental that we look a better team when he plays and less so when Tonali does.

 

 

 

I think we have actually earned more points with Tonali on the pitch this season than with Longstaff. I do understand the point you and others are trying to make mind.

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, STM said:

Let's just try, just once, this front 6:

 

                     Tonali

         Bruno               Willock

Joelinton                        Gordon

                       Isak

 

The day this happens ...

 

It's over for everybody.

[80]

I think my only issue is I abhor crap statistics and sophistry. I can get along with the idea that we play better with Longstaff in than Tonali or whatever - especially as he seems to be removing some of the worst parts of his game in recent weeks - but the justifications based on points picked up and games not lost etc. are invariably shite. The original one was outright bait.

 

Would be better if people just use their eyes and say "Bruno looks a lot more comfortable alongside him" or "the opposition find it a lot harder to pass through our structure with Longstaff in the team".

 

Of course, that does beg the question of how we've managed to spend £60m on a player and still find the same players we had in January 2022 are our best midfield spine, three out of four of whom played for Steve Bruce.

[Gawalls]

2 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

I think we have actually earned more points with Tonali on the pitch this season than with Longstaff. I do understand the point you and others are trying to make mind.

Longstaff stats

 

they state when willock, joelington, Bruno and Longstaff have started - in all 14 games they’ve never been beaten. Hard to drop him based on that.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Tonali has to and will start most games and we will be much better for it. The question is just when. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

27 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

Longstaff stats

 

they state when willock, joelington, Bruno and Longstaff have started - in all 14 games they’ve never been beaten. Hard to drop him based on that.

 

So we should never look to improve?

[Gawalls]

8 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

So we should never look to improve?

On winning when he plays? whenever a Tonali start doesn’t work out, when this midfield lineup has this record - I just reckon Howe will always drop back to this lineup as it just picks us up points.

 

Look I rate Tonali but I’m yet to see him improve our points tally for us over a spell of time like Longstaff has and I personally hate the stick Longstaff gets on here.

[Myleftboot]

So,question. If AC Milan offered us our money back for Tonali would you take it?

[Gawalls]

That amount of money doesn’t go a as long way these days so maybe not but if it was to be all put into a RM can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted personally.

[Dr Venkman]

5 hours ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

See futher: Ben Arfa, Hatem & the ‘blinder’

[TRon]

4 hours ago, Geogaddi said:

Tonali is clearly a far better player than Longstaff but the results show we are a far better team and get more points when Longstaff plays, results have also shown that when Tonali, Bruno and Joelinton all start it doesn't work and we get less points, it might change at some point but its undisputable at the minute. I don't particularly rate Longstaff but its mad that people will still try and find ways to make out that its purely coincidental that we look a better team and get more points when he plays.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem might be Tonali and Bruno together rather than Longstaff being some wonder cog.

[Erikse]

33 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

So,question. If AC Milan offered us our money back for Tonali would you take it?

 

In the winter window? Too early. It won't even help PSR that much in the short term. I think the risk of getting less in the summer is low. His actual value is higher than what we paid imo.

 

If you asked the same question for Hall last season (before that last period), I think many would say yes to taking back the £35m.

 

 

Edited November 16 by Erikse

[TRon]

28 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

So,question. If AC Milan offered us our money back for Tonali would you take it?

 

 

If they offered us the same money for Longstaff I'd take it.

[Gawalls]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

If they offered us the same money for Longstaff I'd take it.

I’m genuinely glad we have Howe making these decisions (if he is)

[AyeDubbleYoo]

38 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

So,question. If AC Milan offered us our money back for Tonali would you take it?

Why on earth would anyone do that? Truly mad idea. 

[Geogaddi]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Tonali has to and will start most games and we will be much better for it. The question is just when. 

I really hope so as he's clearly an excellent footballer but aside from Villa at home last season nothing we have seen so far demonstrates we are a better team when him and Bruno start together .

[cubaricho]

I’ve seen some really terrible takes on this forum over the last two decades but holy shit some of the things being said on this page are absolutely wild.  

[Geogaddi]

Just now, cubaricho said:

I’ve seen some really terrible takes on this forum over the last two decades but holy shit some of the things being said on this page are absolutely wild.  

Mad isn't it , people won't give Longstaff the lickings of a dog despite us being far better when he plays and thinking it's some sort of coincidence we win when he plays ahead of Tonali.

[et tu brute]

1 hour ago, Gawalls said:

On winning when he plays? whenever a Tonali start doesn’t work out, when this midfield lineup has this record - I just reckon Howe will always drop back to this lineup as it just picks us up points.

 

Look I rate Tonali but I’m yet to see him improve our points tally for us over a spell of time like Longstaff has and I personally hate the stick Longstaff gets on here.

How many times have Joelington and Willock been playing with Tonali? The time he played with both we beat Chelsea and Tonali was man of the match. Longstaff gets stick because he has far more poor games than he does good games.