Whitley mag Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 14 minutes ago, ponsaelius said: We scored more goals than any NUFC team ever in the PL. As much as we all want and need attacking improvements, scoring has not been a problem. Having Dubravka for half a season was a problem, however. We conceded goals for fun when he came in - and I think it cost us at 10 points easy. Focusing budget on a goalkeeper makes perfect sense to me - and to be honest even moreso if we see them as an upgrade on Pope and not just Dubravka. First choice goalkeeper hitting 32 and having had two major shoulder injuries, with a crappy back up, is another disaster waiting to happen next year. Goalkeeper and Central Defence are big priorities, we’ve never had pace at CB for a good few years and it’s a must this window. We always look vulnerable in big games at the back and alongside a RW should be where majority of budget goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Before Trafford went to Burnley he was highly sought after. Had a cracking euros with that penalty save to win it for England. Burnley were always gonna get tonked with the quality of squad they had so Trafford wouldn't have been very confident behind his defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leemond Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 44 minutes ago, ponsaelius said: Pope 15 matches, 16 conceded, 5 clean sheets. Dubravka 23 matches, 42 conceded, 1 clean sheet. That's league stats last year. We started conceding at almost double the rate. So the summation is we simply can't go into next season with Dubravka playing anymore football, as he's miles away from the required standard. Another injury to Pope and we're back there again with basically a 10 point handicap. A better backup is one option, but most career backup keepers aren't good for a reason. To me going for a first choice upgrade is very sensible squad planning right now. 100% agree with this, hence why I believe signing Mamardashvili is so important, a top talent secured for years to come, hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Isn't Trafford a regen of Woodman? Woodman was equally if not more highly rated and yet struggled when given the opportunity due to inexperience, same as Trafford Probably better getting Woodman back, at least he's home grown and more experienced now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upthemags Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, ponsaelius said: We scored more goals than any NUFC team ever in the PL. As much as we all want and need attacking improvements, scoring has not been a problem. Having Dubravka for half a season was a problem, however. We conceded goals for fun when he came in - and I think it cost us at 10 points easy. Focusing budget on a goalkeeper makes perfect sense to me - and to be honest even moreso if we see them as an upgrade on Pope and not just Dubravka. First choice goalkeeper hitting 32 and having had two major shoulder injuries, with a crappy back up, is another disaster waiting to happen next year. Trips was tripping over his own two feet when he needed to defend on ball, and his head was in the clouds off the ball. Botman was an absolute shambles, although he has the injury justification. Schar was defensively abhorrent for long stretches, despite the odd effective defensive performance. Burn was alright defensively, to be fair. Dubs has been used as a kind of scapegoat, which, fair play, the backline is chock-full-of fan favorites. And it stands to reason fans won't want to be critical of first team stalwarts. A common refrain was that the back line performed so poorly because they had dubs' limitations in the back of their minds. To me, that's ridiculous post-hoc reasoning. Botman is, in effect, a non-factor for next season, and Schar is a year older. Think we'd be much better served paying a pittance for an unproven, young, non-domestic keeper hungry to prove himself (in the event Pope goes down for another long stretch), and getting a legitimate center half who can improve our first team. Upgrading our backup keeper isn't getting us from 7th to 6th. The teams that finished ahead of us will be upgrading their first XI, and we should follow suit if Europe is our true aspiration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 No. Trafford was a winning international keeper woodman could barely get in the nets for England u21s. And nearly every loan he wasn't t pulling up trees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, andycap said: No. Trafford was a winning international keeper woodman could barely get in the nets for England u21s. And nearly every loan he wasn't t pulling up trees. Didn’t Woodman win an international tournament with England ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Didn’t Woodman win an international tournament with England ? Won the U20 World Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Theres no defending Dubravka like. He's declined so much from when he first came to the club he would command his area and barely anything got by him A cracking keeper but now he's shite. Soon as he went to man utd we should of cut ties and put him in the reserves. And karius would of come in and you never know he could of found his mojo again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Didn’t Woodman win an international tournament with England ? Under 17s I think just remembered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris L Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 3 minutes ago, andycap said: Under 17s I think just remembered. Was the u20s World Cup. (Also got the golden glove) won the u17s euros though. Edited May 27 by Chris L Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Yep i got that wrong lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 15 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Trips was tripping over his own two feet when he needed to defend on ball, and his head was in the clouds off the ball. Botman was an absolute shambles, although he has the injury justification. Schar was defensively abhorrent for long stretches, despite the odd effective defensive performance. Burn was alright defensively, to be fair. Dubs has been used as a kind of scapegoat, which, fair play, the backline is chock-full-of fan favorites. And it stands to reason fans won't want to be critical of first team stalwarts. A common refrain was that the back line performed so poorly because they had dubs' limitations in the back of their minds. To me, that's ridiculous post-hoc reasoning. Botman is, in effect, a non-factor for next season, and Schar is a year older. Think we'd be much better served paying a pittance for an unproven, young, non-domestic keeper hungry to prove himself (in the event Pope goes down for another long stretch), and getting a legitimate center half who can improve our first team. Upgrading our backup keeper isn't getting us from 7th to 6th. The teams that finished ahead of us will be upgrading their first XI, and we should follow suit if Europe is our true aspiration. Do you think the fact that the whole defence had to play 10 yards deeper to accommodate a keeper welded to his line, who goes down in slow motion stages may have also been a factor too? Dubs coming back into the team changed the way the whole team was set up man. If you couldn’t see that clear as day with your mark 1 eyeball in real time (not post-hoc), I dunno what to tell you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 51 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Trips was tripping over his own two feet when he needed to defend on ball, and his head was in the clouds off the ball. Botman was an absolute shambles, although he has the injury justification. Schar was defensively abhorrent for long stretches, despite the odd effective defensive performance. Burn was alright defensively, to be fair. Dubs has been used as a kind of scapegoat, which, fair play, the backline is chock-full-of fan favorites. And it stands to reason fans won't want to be critical of first team stalwarts. A common refrain was that the back line performed so poorly because they had dubs' limitations in the back of their minds. To me, that's ridiculous post-hoc reasoning. It wasn't all on Dubravka, granted; the team has had deficiencies from a defensive perspective all season (feels like ancient history now but "the midfield isn't working" pre-dates Pope's injury). However, to suggest the likes of Schar are more accountable - but saved from criticism by fan-favouritism - is bordering on lunacy. Kick the ball to Dubs' right and it's a goal. You only need to go as far back as his most recent appearance for an example of him chucking one in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 53 minutes ago, andycap said: Theres no defending Dubravka like. He's declined so much from when he first came to the club he would command his area and barely anything got by him A cracking keeper but now he's shite. Soon as he went to man utd we should have cut ties and put him in the reserves. And karius would have come in and you never know he could have found his mojo again. He was never a cracking keeper. He was just better than Darlow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 ‘Schar was defensively abhorrent for long stretches’ This is just a pure fabrication. He’s had a few shaky moments in a very long season but he’s been fucking outstanding overall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Schar had like 3 bad games out of 40-something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 5 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: He was never a cracking keeper. He was just better than Darlow. I thought he was mind I think your been a bit harsh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 5 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: He was never a cracking keeper. He was just better than Darlow. He was a comfortable mid-table keeper. I think barely playing for 18 months and age just caught up with him too quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 minute ago, andycap said: I thought he was mind I think your been a bit harsh. Pope is a cracking keeper. Dubravka at his best doesn’t touch him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Dubravka has always been prone to poor palming and blocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Aye, is it not just that despite his inability to use his feet and his dip after the red card, Pope is an unbelievable goalkeeper? Dubs knew from his first day in training he was done for, hence him being so keen to fuck off to OT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley17 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I remember that stat during Covidball he had made something like 8 mistakes leading to goals, that was after throwing in an equaliser for Villa at SJP. He needed replacing then, Howe figured it out fairly quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I haven’t rated Dubs for a long time. Pope was always going to be a significant upgrade. It will be difficult to replace Pope. A definitively better GK than Pope will be one of the best 5 GKs in the league. see Vicario. Got a lot of praise earlier but always looked flappy to me. By the end of the season he was targeted at set pieces. Weak as piss. He may develop into a top goalkeeper but he’s not better than Pope now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLion Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Two quality CBs and a RW is top priority this window. As for GK if a young upgrade for Dubravka is available then go for it. I also think selling barnes to raise funds would be best, and if necessary bruno. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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