Harvey Barnes

[The Prophet]

I wouldn't be selling ASM, Wilson and Almiron in the same transfer window, it has the potential to disrupt the squad harmony Howe has worked so hard to create. If we could get good money for ASM or Almiron though, it has to be considered. 

 

I've said elsewhere I'd be shocked if Almiron scored anywhere near as many goals this coming season. His value will only decline from here and he's very replaceable. ASM is a bit more unique but probably fetches a larger fee.

[Unbelievable]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I wouldn't be selling ASM, Wilson and Almiron in the same transfer window, it has the potential to disrupt the squad harmony Howe has worked so hard to create. If we could get good money for ASM or Almiron though, it has to be considered. 

 

I've said elsewhere I'd be shocked if Almiron scored anywhere near as many goals this coming season. His value will only decline from here and he's very replaceable. ASM is a bit more unique but probably fetches a larger fee.

Miggy’s value for this team far exceeds his goalscoring contribution though. He’s not easily replaceable unless right wingers capable of double figures and also chasing a ball around for 90 minutes grow on trees somewhere. 

[The Prophet]

Just now, Unbelievable said:

Miggy’s value for this team far exceeds his goalscoring contribution though. He’s not easily replaceable unless right wingers capable of double figures and also chasing a ball around for 90 minutes grow on trees somewhere. 

 

His value is the amount of work he gets through and his willingness to sacrifice himself for the team. He's entirely one-footed which makes him extremely limited on the ball. Unless he starts banging in wonder goals again he'll struggle to replicate last year's numbers.

[54]

3 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

His value is the amount of work he gets through and his willingness to sacrifice himself for the team. He's entirely one-footed which makes him extremely limited on the ball. Unless he starts banging in wonder goals again he'll struggle to replicate last year's numbers.

I actually think thats the reason we're heading after Barnes, Howe will place a hell of a lot on what Miggy does for the team both in and out of position, and probably thinks he's invaluable as such. However he also probably realises the output probably won't quite be there this season, so buying Barnes for the other side (Where we didn't really have anyone who scored regularly) who's primary asset is to score goals can offset the drop off from Miggy.

[McCormick]

If Miggy had a working right-foot and a footballing brain he wouldn’t have signed for us under Ashley

[The Butcher]

12 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

Miggy’s value for this team far exceeds his goalscoring contribution though. He’s not easily replaceable unless right wingers capable of double figures and also chasing a ball around for 90 minutes grow on trees somewhere. 

If we want to stay a CL side we can't rely on players as limited as him imo. Purple patch aside he offers nowhere near enough quality in the final third.

[Nucasol]

Just now, The Butcher said:

If we want to stay a CL side we can't rely on players as limited as him imo. Purple patch aside he offers nowhere near enough quality in the final third.

If we could over-inflate his fee and flog him for his November peak value that would be ideal before he regresses back to the “Dog chasing a balloon” Miggy variant, that would be nice.
 

Sadly other than Saudi and other PL clubs, no one else could pay that. Think he was once linked to Atletico Madrid which is the only non-UK link I’ve seen.

[ponsaelius]

Love Miggy but think there's a pretty big chance he'll revert to the mean next year. Wouldn't be actively shopping him around but he's exactly the kind of shock sale that could happen if there was a sizeable offer put in. At 29 he's basically at the last point where you could get a decent fee.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by ponsaelius

[Nucasol]

1 minute ago, ponsaelius said:

Love Miggy but think there's a pretty big chance he'll revert to the mean next year. Wouldn't be actively shopping him around but he's exactly the kind of shock sale that could happen if there was a sizeable offer put in. At 29 he's basically at the last point where you could get a decent fee.

 

 

 

Also pure FFP profit so an ideal candidate to bridge the gap. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Think it’s a little unfair to assume that some of our players’ true level is more like the Bruce version than the Howe version. Everyone one needs coaching and the right environment to do well.  

[ExiledGeordie]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

I wouldn't be selling ASM, Wilson and Almiron in the same transfer window, it has the potential to disrupt the squad harmony Howe has worked so hard to create. If we could get good money for ASM or Almiron though, it has to be considered. 

 

I've said elsewhere I'd be shocked if Almiron scored anywhere near as many goals this coming season. His value will only decline from here and he's very replaceable. ASM is a bit more unique but probably fetches a larger fee.

Yes you can’t change the team too much all at once or too quickly for various reasons - cost, dressing room vibe etc. I think they’re very aware of this.

[Dr.Spaceman]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Think it’s a little unfair to assume that some of our players’ true level is more like the Bruce version than the Howe version. Everyone one needs coaching and the right environment to do well.  

 

It's funny how this rule applies to ASM given he's arguably much less effective for us these days. Of all the players I thought would improve under Howe he was one I thought would become an absolute world beater.

[Conjo]

31 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Love Miggy but think there's a pretty big chance he'll revert to the mean next year.

 

What is his mean though? His spell at Atlanta, here under Benitez and Howe - or his time playing in a team managed by Bruce?

[Keegans Export]

1 hour ago, Matt1892 said:

It is a nonsense argument and one people will avoid.
 

There is a legitimate debate on how we overcome FFP in the next few years as I’m of the belief that it was implemented to keep teams from breaking in to that top group of clubs on a permanent basis, as they will always have the money to buy the better players and pay the bigger wages until you can match them financially, which you are looking at a 5 year minimum period of being there or thereabouts.

 

In ASM you have a player who wouldn’t be in my starting 11 and that Harvey Barnes could replace for a similar fee, freeing up funds over the next few years due to ASM being pure profit.

 

You then have Callum Wilson who has came off his best season scoring wise but again, he wouldn’t be in my starting 11, is 31 and in the final 12 months of his contract. Now is the only time we can realistically get decent money for him especially after his finish to the season, as it has help people forget the period from November until April where he only scored one goal in all competitions.

 

Then there is Almiron, a player who would be in my starting 11 but who sits in a position where we clearly need an upgrade. His purple patch has boosted his value but I don’t have any faith that we will see that again, meaning his value will drop going forward.

 

So if we want to keep up our level of spending that has taken us to the Champions League so we can keep progressing from there then we need to sell, otherwise we slow down and are overtaken.

 

You make a lot of good points, but there are two issues I see there;

 

1. We have enough absolute shite in our squad that need shifting, even just to get the wages off the books, before we look at the core 14-15 players who played the majority of minutes last season

 

2. If you sell Wilson for example, yeah you're bringing some money in but you're then committing yourself to bringing in a replacement which is going to cost money, so the gain is going to be fairly limited. There are enough weak spots within our squad that need addressing without creating another weak spot by selling someone who played a lot of minutes and scored a lot of goals.

 

Between them Miggy and Wilson played nearly 4,500 mins last season. Add in the extra European games and that's a lot of minutes that you're going to need to replace by selling those two.

[Toon88]

Wilson going nowhere. End of.

[The Prophet]

Almiron's xG was much improved but he still hugely outperformed it by scoring a handful of ridiculous goals. It matches the eye test too.

[Tsunami]

Teams wised up to the Bruno dink over the defender for Miggy to run on to during the later part of the season.

 

Without checking I’m also going to say that most of his goals were cutting in and curling the ball towards the far post.

 

He seems a great team mate, runs his bollocks off but, get a decent offer and I’d take it. He occupies a position we need to upgrade, be interesting if Gordon starts the season ahead of Miggy if he’s still here.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Has nobody been watching Miggy closing down 2 or 3 players on his own in the best pressing team in the league? I feel like I'm going mad

[Shadow Puppets]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Has nobody been watching Miggy closing down 2 or 3 players on his own in the best pressing team in the league? I feel like I'm going mad

 

I know... there's some mental takes.

 

Almiron is one of the last people we should be thinking of getting rid of. Tremendous member of the squad.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Are people just confusing the term 'getting rid' and assuming lots wants him gone from the club rather than just the starting 11?

 

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Has nobody been watching Miggy closing down 2 or 3 players on his own in the best pressing team in the league? I feel like I'm going mad

 

Bit of an oxymoron that, isn't it 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Dr.Spaceman said:

Are people just confusing the term 'getting rid' and assuming lots wants him gone from the club rather than just the starting 11?

 

 

Bit of an oxymoron that, isn't it 

 

Not at all, he's a key part of the unit because of the amount of work he can do. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Anyway, it's the Barnes thread, not who should we sell. I don't believe we need to sell to buy, our FFP line has been a bit too successful. 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Dr.Spaceman]

But we're only the best pressing side in the league because we do it together, as a team.

[The Prophet]

Can't speak for others but I'm not saying that we should be pushing Almiron out the door, just considering any offers if they were to come.

 

As we've seen pressing can be coached providing we buy players who buy into it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

But we're only the best pressing side in the league because we do it together, as a team.

 

I know, with players who are very well suited to doing it